Nissan,how could you Screw Up so BADLY

[daniel]

Really.. stop worrying about the 5k rebate...

This is an unfair comment. While those of us outside CA are not getting the $5K rebate, there are probably people who can afford the car only after the rebate. True, it's not a car for the poor, and a lot of people who'd like to have the car cannot afford it at all. If you can afford this car, you are more fortunate than many people. BUT if you've made a purchase decision based on the price of the car after the rebate, and then you lose the rebate because Nissan is filling January orders before September orders, after you jumped through all the hoops, reserving and ordering as soon as was permitted, and now some of us are seeing "Month of July" after having a date in April, then you have a right to be concerned, to ask questions, and to expect an explanation from Nissan. And now dates getting pushed back to July might make some of us wonder if the glitch that put January orders ahead of Sept/Oct orders may now be putting February orders ahead also. Given the total incompetence of their web site programming, it's a reasonable fear. If you have to cancel your order because you miss the rebate, after spending a year on a waiting list, and making your transportation plans based on their promises, you have a right to be angry at Nissan. The disaster is not Nissan's fault. Delays due to unforeseen production difficulties are not their fault. Even the starting snafu and resultant delays while a fix is implemented is not entirely their fault given the complexity of the system. But filling orders out of order, after PROMISING that orders would be filled in the order placed, that IS their fault, and their refusal to offer an explanation is a sign of disrespect to their customers, who have after all jumped on their bandwagon with the initial announcement of this car. We have partnered with Nissan by lining up to join with them in this project, to buy a whole new kind of car, to take our chances with an unknown vehicle, a project that will benefit them and us if successful, but which also carries risks for them and us if it does not perform as we all hope and expect. And they repay us with disrespect. We deserve explanations. I do not demand to get my car yesterday. I only want to know what is going on and how the process is operating, and Nissan won't tell us anything.

All these concerns pale compared to the disaster in Japan. But this behavior from Nissan long pre-dates the disaster. And since it looks as though the roll-out was handled entirely differently in Japan, it seems likely that all these problems are Nissan USA. The rebate does not affect me, here in WA. But Nissan led me to believe that I'd have this car in late December or early January, and I'd like a public explanation of what's actually going on. Such an explanation could be given without affecting Nissan's response to the disaster.

Come on, Nissan. Open up! Give us the respect we deserve and explain this screwed-up process.

 

[Stoaty]

Come on, Nissan. Open up! Give us the respect we deserve and explain this screwed-up process.

Well argued. However, I don't think it will have any effect. Anything Nissan could say would probably just fan the flames, or put a spotlight on a particular area of incompetence. At this point, it is a no-win situation for Nissan. Since probably no more than a few hundred people are affected, it is better (from their point of view) to just soldier on and try to get the cars delivered.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Come on, Nissan. Open up! Give us the respect we deserve and explain this screwed-up process.

Well argued. However, I don't think it will have any effect. Anything Nissan could say would probably just fan the flames, or put a spotlight on a particular area of incompetence. At this point, it is a no-win situation for Nissan. Since probably no more than a few hundred people are affected, it is better (from their point of view) to just soldier on and try to get the cars delivered.

Unfortunate, but quite true. Besides, there is no delivery contract or guarantee of delivery order even though they stated deliveries based on reservation, etc they have no obligation to do so. I have learned that Nissan communication and CS in general is poor and compared to other auto makers like Toyota it is evident they are really detached. Because of the rebate this could impact some, I suggest writing a letter to Nissan corporate. Nissan has a more competent CS line outside of the LEAF number and they are more responsive, they are post sales.

 

[Herm]

But filling orders out of order, after PROMISING that orders would be filled in the order placed, that IS their fault, and their refusal to offer an explanation is a sign of disrespect to their customers, who have after all jumped on their bandwagon with the initial announcement of this car.

Sounds like grounds for a suit, and if Nissan opens up and offers more information then that will be used against them in the suit.. legal may be telling them to shut up.

 

[thankyouOB]

Nissan has the perfect defense for all but a few of the most inside-baseball crowd on this blog.
No story you are going to tell will survive the earthquake and tsunami defense. it just wont work to charge them with incompetence when they country was devastated by an earthquake and nuclear disaster. It doesnt matter that you ordered in september and january folks got a car.
The country was devastated.
you think you can generate sympathy for a few hundred (if that many) people who had their order for a boutique car delayed and perhaps jumped over by other EV car fan orders during the roll out by Nissan.
It just wont get any traction. You cant even get traction with stories in CA of hundreds of thousands of people having MediCal cut and school budgets slashed and teachers laid off. We are talking elderly left without home care and kids without dentistry. Classes without books.
I think you need to first understand the environment and second know that Nissan has a bulletproof explanation; they were making this right for all the out-of-place orders and the earthquake hit. They did the best they could. Dealers lost all their demos. Owners of dealerships got skipped over. etc.

I just wanted to repost your comments.. I am surprised that no one has picked up the story of a select group of rich watermelons (that can afford a new car, class envy) are getting $5k rebates in cash strapped California.. perhaps its time to sent a tip to Drudge

there has been coverage of the 5k from CARB for EV cars. It has not gotten some vicious, right-wing spin, however. Or as you put it, it hasnt gotten drudged yet.
or hannitied.
or fatmanned.
but it is from a different pot of money than the general fund, but I would assume -- even though it helps clean the air -- allocating funds from the smog tax could be undermined by bad PR.
that is why CARB is considering doing something different next year in terms of eligibility for the rich-bays' Tesla.

 

[Rat]

GroundLoop +10 JimmyDreams 0. Game over.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Here is an irony, if this were a Mercedes or likely even an Acura this entire order process would have been much more refined and tested and if they messed up the orders they would have communicated better if even in a generic manner. Nissan has a very poor communication design even to dealers it seems. This is one area that they cold have improved quickly at a low cost but instead they may pay a high price on dealers surveys and MFG car surveys in terms of satisfaction. For such a high profile car they really blew it on the communication process, I think this will hurt them the most in terms of some owner satisfaction at this point. No matter how good your product may be if your customer has a sour taste about the process it make the product seem less satisfying then it actually is.

 

[smkettner]

I wonder if Nissan had just stopped at the RAQ and then utilize the normal channel of dealer ordering and distribution if the whole ordering sequence would have been far better.

 

[Azat]

Really.. stop worrying about the 5k rebate...

This is an unfair comment. While those of us outside CA are not getting the $5K rebate, there are probably people who can afford the car only after the rebate. True, it's not a car for the poor, and a lot of people who'd like to have the car cannot afford it at all. If you can afford this car, you are more fortunate than many people. BUT if you've made a purchase decision based on the price of the car after the rebate, and then you lose the rebate because Nissan is filling January orders before September orders, after you jumped through all the hoops, reserving and ordering as soon as was permitted, and now some of us are seeing "Month of July" after having a date in April, then you have a right to be concerned, to ask questions, and to expect an explanation from Nissan. And now dates getting pushed back to July might make some of us wonder if the glitch that put January orders ahead of Sept/Oct orders may now be putting February orders ahead also. Given the total incompetence of their web site programming, it's a reasonable fear. If you have to cancel your order because you miss the rebate, after spending a year on a waiting list, and making your transportation plans based on their promises, you have a right to be angry at Nissan. The disaster is not Nissan's fault. Delays due to unforeseen production difficulties are not their fault. Even the starting snafu and resultant delays while a fix is implemented is not entirely their fault given the complexity of the system. But filling orders out of order, after PROMISING that orders would be filled in the order placed, that IS their fault, and their refusal to offer an explanation is a sign of disrespect to their customers, who have after all jumped on their bandwagon with the initial announcement of this car. We have partnered with Nissan by lining up to join with them in this project, to buy a whole new kind of car, to take our chances with an unknown vehicle, a project that will benefit them and us if successful, but which also carries risks for them and us if it does not perform as we all hope and expect. And they repay us with disrespect. We deserve explanations. I do not demand to get my car yesterday. I only want to know what is going on and how the process is operating, and Nissan won't tell us anything.

All these concerns pale compared to the disaster in Japan. But this behavior from Nissan long pre-dates the disaster. And since it looks as though the roll-out was handled entirely differently in Japan, it seems likely that all these problems are Nissan USA. The rebate does not affect me, here in WA. But Nissan led me to believe that I'd have this car in late December or early January, and I'd like a public explanation of what's actually going on. Such an explanation could be given without affecting Nissan's response to the disaster.

Come on, Nissan. Open up! Give us the respect we deserve and explain this screwed-up process.

Outstanding comment. Right to the point. :!:

 

[smkettner]

I agree the order timing SNAFU is independent of all other disasters and delays.

Too bad Nissan could not man-up and either reassign the vehicles or hold them in port. There is just no reason to have a car delivered more than 30 days out of sequence when there were no special issues to cause sequencing delay.

 

[EVDRIVER]

From a technical standpoint, does anyone have a contract in writing or an oral contract with Nissan guaranteeing a specific delivery date of their car? How about delivery period. Does the fine print on the order disclaimer stipulate specific delivery times? As disappointing as this is and as frustrating Nissan's communication has been I have yet to see anything binding Nissan to delivery times, dates or order of deliveries other than what the have stated they "intend" to do rather than what they have contracted or promised in writing or verbally, that even remotely resembles a promise or guarantee. If anything this is no more than poor order management in some cases and worse in the case of customer service. I also don't see where Nissan is obligated to follow any order other than what suites their needs nor any obligation to explain how they deliver cars as "reservation order" is a very subjective statement and more of an intended order rather than a promise or guarantee. This is not a good way to do business by any means but in the scheme of things there is not much Nissan is going to do as they have no obligation to meet any deadlines whatsoever unless I missed some contract.

That being said voicing concerns to Nissan will let them know how you feel and canceling and order and telling them why is even a more powerful of a statement, that is how the free market economy works. It sucks but that is about all that can be done besides waiting, a bunch of PR seems silly as I don't think the general public could care less if a bunch of people got their cars late or out of order, they care about product issues. I would not expect to get an answer on this one from Nissan but aside from some order screw ups pre-earthquake I would speculate that the large delays after were due to the damaged cars Nissan is not discussing with the public. If many orders were messed up it could be tough to figure out how to put them back in order.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

From a technical standpoint, does anyone have a contract in writing or an oral contract with Nissan guaranteeing a specific delivery date of their car? How about delivery period. Does the fine print on the order disclaimer stipulate specific delivery times? As disappointing as this is and as frustrating Nissan's communication has been I have yet to see anything binding Nissan to delivery times, dates or order of deliveries other than what the have stated they "intend" to do rather than what they have contracted or promised in writing or verbally, that even remotely resembles a promise or guarantee. If anything this is no more than poor order management in some cases and worse in the case of customer service. I also don't see where Nissan is obligated to follow any order other than what suites their needs nor any obligation to explain how they deliver cars as "reservation order" is a very subjective statement and more of an intended order rather than a promise or guarantee. This is not a good way to do business by any means but in the scheme of things there is not much Nissan is going to do as they have no obligation to meet any deadlines whatsoever unless I missed some contract.

That being said voicing concerns to Nissan will let them know how you feel and canceling and order and telling them why is even a more powerful of a statement, that is how the free market economy works. It sucks but that is about all that can be done besides waiting, a bunch of PR seems silly as I don't think the general public could care less if a bunch of people got their cars late or out of order, they care about product issues. I would not expect to get an answer on this one from Nissan but aside from some order screw ups pre-earthquake I would speculate that the large delays after were due to the damaged cars Nissan is not discussing with the public. If many orders were messed up it could be tough to figure out how to put them back in order.

I'll venture this, as EVs go mainstream, I suspect that for mainstream consumers that are looking for a car, and don't attach a high value to it being Electric or when there are more choices in Electric cars to purchase, probably more than half of them would cancel their orders than wait out the process we're subjected to, especially when subjected to line jumpers with no explanation.

It's also interesting to note that most of the people telling us who are still waiting for our LEAFs and watching orders two months after our orders getting LEAFs before are mostly people WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR LEAFs! I find their credibility limited since we don't see the same reaction from others who don't have their LEAFs yet. I'm sure if the positions were swapped, they would be making different statements. And there's an awful lot of presumption that having the car delayed by months does not cause people issues - like spending more money on extending leases, hoping existing vehicles last until the LEAF arrives, etc. Nissan has made public statements to the press that they are delivering the cars in reservation order. See the SF first delivery press conference video. And while there is nothing contractual, chagning estimated delivery from April to July while having delivered some January orders deserves some explanation.

Yes, we're early adopters, but keep in mind as early adopters we're finding the issues and ironing them out so electric vehicles and the LEAF can roll out to the mainstream. If we want to support the broader adoption of EVs, this ordering process and communications needs to improve or customers will walk away and purchase a car elsewhere with less hassle, possibly purchasing a gasoline only vehicle instead. We need to do what we can as LEAF owners to improve the LEAF, charging infrastrucutre and the ordering process so that when Nissan re-opens reservations for the next 20,000 or however many vehicles, they sell out with happy customers so that we get the millions, tens of millions and later 100+ million EVs on the road to reduce our gasoline consumption and the related issues of using gasoline.

 

[Stoaty]

I'll venture this, as EVs go mainstream, I suspect that for mainstream consumers that are looking for a car, and don't attach a high value to it being Electric or when there are more choices in Electric cars to purchase, probably more than half of them would cancel their orders than wait out the process we're subjected to, especially when subjected to line jumpers with no explanation.

True, but not relevant. The RAQ process is only intended to be for the rollout. Once the factory in Tennessee is churning out Leafs, they will be on the dealer floor, like any other car. Thus I view this as a one time screw-up that won't affect the masses once the Leaf really goes mainstream.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

I'll venture this, as EVs go mainstream, I suspect that for mainstream consumers that are looking for a car, and don't attach a high value to it being Electric or when there are more choices in Electric cars to purchase, probably more than half of them would cancel their orders than wait out the process we're subjected to, especially when subjected to line jumpers with no explanation.

True, but not relevant. The RAQ process is only intended to be for the rollout. Once the factory in Tennessee is churning out Leafs, they will be on the dealer floor, like any other car. Thus I view this as a one time screw-up that won't affect the masses once the Leaf really goes mainstream.

The RAQ process is likely what we will have for the next year or two. Later as the Ford Focus EV and Tesla Model S become available, we will have more choices. I've purchased three EVs so far (ok, one was only leasble!), and so far, I'm convinced most normal car buyers would have given up before getting the vehicle unless they were preset to get the EV.

I do hope in 2 or 3 years that ordering and getting an EV becomes easier and that you can drive them off the lot. But there's still some time and additional work before that happens, particulalry without price gouging (mostly on the Chevy Volt side...).

It appears Stoaty that you lucked out!: Reservation 7/2/2010 Ordered 1/26/2011 Estimated Delivery 4/15/2011

 

[Stoaty]

It appears Stoaty that you lucked out!: Reservation 7/2/2010 Ordered 1/26/2011 Estimated Delivery 4/15/2011

Spreadsheet hasn't been updated... estimated delivery is 4/22/11. However, yes indeed I lucked out. I was expecting August or September (before the quake), very surprised when I got the April date. If they changed it back, I would accept it. Dealer called last Friday and said he expects my car to be delivered in a week or so. I am wondering if the fact that I ordered an SV has anything to do with me getting the car so early, or if it was all the practice I have put in "line jumping" :mrgreen:

 

[thankyouOB]

the use of "line jumpers" is, and remains, offensive.
just sayin'
(I get stoaty is quoting and spoofing the offending phrase, which is used repeatedly by others here.)
Not a single one of us jumped the line. we got lucky.
We are lucky ducks, if you need to put a label on it.

for those of you who continue to use it, may your ev car karma match your sensitivity.

 

[EVDRIVER]

From a technical standpoint, does anyone have a contract in writing or an oral contract with Nissan guaranteeing a specific delivery date of their car? How about delivery period. Does the fine print on the order disclaimer stipulate specific delivery times? As disappointing as this is and as frustrating Nissan's communication has been I have yet to see anything binding Nissan to delivery times, dates or order of deliveries other than what the have stated they "intend" to do rather than what they have contracted or promised in writing or verbally, that even remotely resembles a promise or guarantee. If anything this is no more than poor order management in some cases and worse in the case of customer service. I also don't see where Nissan is obligated to follow any order other than what suites their needs nor any obligation to explain how they deliver cars as "reservation order" is a very subjective statement and more of an intended order rather than a promise or guarantee. This is not a good way to do business by any means but in the scheme of things there is not much Nissan is going to do as they have no obligation to meet any deadlines whatsoever unless I missed some contract.

That being said voicing concerns to Nissan will let them know how you feel and canceling and order and telling them why is even a more powerful of a statement, that is how the free market economy works. It sucks but that is about all that can be done besides waiting, a bunch of PR seems silly as I don't think the general public could care less if a bunch of people got their cars late or out of order, they care about product issues. I would not expect to get an answer on this one from Nissan but aside from some order screw ups pre-earthquake I would speculate that the large delays after were due to the damaged cars Nissan is not discussing with the public. If many orders were messed up it could be tough to figure out how to put them back in order.

I'll venture this, as EVs go mainstream, I suspect that for mainstream consumers that are looking for a car, and don't attach a high value to it being Electric or when there are more choices in Electric cars to purchase, probably more than half of them would cancel their orders than wait out the process we're subjected to, especially when subjected to line jumpers with no explanation.

It's also interesting to note that most of the people telling us who are still waiting for our LEAFs and watching orders two months after our orders getting LEAFs before are mostly people WHO ALREADY HAVE THEIR LEAFs! I find their credibility limited since we don't see the same reaction from others who don't have their LEAFs yet. I'm sure if the positions were swapped, they would be making different statements. And there's an awful lot of presumption that having the car delayed by months does not cause people issues - like spending more money on extending leases, hoping existing vehicles last until the LEAF arrives, etc. Nissan has made public statements to the press that they are delivering the cars in reservation order. See the SF first delivery press conference video. And while there is nothing contractual, chagning estimated delivery from April to July while having delivered some January orders deserves some explanation.

Yes, we're early adopters, but keep in mind as early adopters we're finding the issues and ironing them out so electric vehicles and the LEAF can roll out to the mainstream. If we want to support the broader adoption of EVs, this ordering process and communications needs to improve or customers will walk away and purchase a car elsewhere with less hassle, possibly purchasing a gasoline only vehicle instead. We need to do what we can as LEAF owners to improve the LEAF, charging infrastrucutre and the ordering process so that when Nissan re-opens reservations for the next 20,000 or however many vehicles, they sell out with happy customers so that we get the millions, tens of millions and later 100+ million EVs on the road to reduce our gasoline consumption and the related issues of using gasoline.

On the subject of credibility, if there is any point in my post that is not credible other than the speculation on delays, please point it out, I'm not sure any opinion on this topic or fact is not credible. My point which I repeated was that those seeking recourse have no legal grounds and it is a trivial issue outside the buying community. I also made it clear repeatedly how it "sucks" and it is wrong and poor business, attempting to sue Nissan is a bit silly. Writing a letter to Nissan is far more effective or notable then calling the LEAF CS line and I have accepted the fact Nissan is useless at managing information and customers. I would also note that there is info out there that supports that Nissan had much more severe issues after the quake then has been revealed both with inventory damage and going forward getting parts to make cars, it's not just a few days of the plant shutting down, but would anyone expect them to mention that as a business struggling in a disaster situation.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

It appears Stoaty that you lucked out!: Reservation 7/2/2010 Ordered 1/26/2011 Estimated Delivery 4/15/2011

Spreadsheet hasn't been updated... estimated delivery is 4/22/11. However, yes indeed I lucked out. I was expecting August or September (before the quake), very surprised when I got the April date. If they changed it back, I would accept it. Dealer called last Friday and said he expects my car to be delivered in a week or so. I am wondering if the fact that I ordered an SV has anything to do with me getting the car so early, or if it was all the practice I have put in "line jumping" :mrgreen:

Hehe, I don't balme you for assistance from above... errr Nissan.

I wouldn't be too surprised to find out that this is happening when someone cancels an order at a particular dealer and then that vehicle moves to the next person in THAT dealer's list who is ordering the EXACT same configuration and options, which could be much further down the reservations / order sequence that's across all dealers. Though we're also seeing dealers selling orphans from cancelled orders, so maybe the dealer has some choice as to how to handle it or the Orphan's being sold didn't have an exact match order on that dealers list.

I can understand that. I can also understand how it might be logistically difficult for Nissan to offer those orphans up in sequence to that dealers list for anyone willing to take that configuration instead of their ordered configuration. But it would be nice to hear that from Nissan so we can reconcile it with their public statements that they are delivering the cars in reservation / order date sequence with some variation due to batching of similar configuration production at the factory. It's, at least from the information we can see, almost equally plausible that their order system is just whack for some orders. The lack of explanation or correction of any mistakes their is what gets irritating for those that have committed to these cars early on.

I've talked to my PD and Nissan CS briefly and very politely some time ago, just generally about when I'd see the car since they dates is fluctuating so wildy, mostly out of curiosity then. I need to follow up with them with a little more polite persistance now that it's gone to July with no additional explanation or solid information. I'm still in recovery from seeing my dash flip from June to July a coupls days ago. June was sort of OK but not desirable, now that it's continued out to July, I'm a bit anxious - especially if it goes out any further!

 

[Herm]

particularly without price gouging (mostly on the Chevy Volt side...).

No gouging, the Volt is high end, it has real carpets, a "high end" Bose sound system and lightweight forged aluminum wheels, plus other cr**.. that stuff cost money.

 

[ElectricVehicle]

On the subject of credibility, if there is any point in my post that is not credible other than the speculation on delays, please point it out, I'm not sure any opinion on this topic or fact is not credible. My point which I repeated was that those seeking recourse have no legal grounds and it is a trivial issue outside the buying community. I also made it clear repeatedly how it "sucks" and it is wrong and poor business, attempting to sue Nissan is a bit silly. Writing a letter to Nissan is far more effective or notable then calling the LEAF CS line and I have accepted the fact Nissan is useless at managing information and customers. I would also note that there is info out there that supports that Nissan had much more severe issues after the quake then has been revealed both with inventory damage and going forward getting parts to make cars, it's not just a few days of the plant shutting down, but would anyone expect them to mention that as a business struggling in a disaster situation.

Credible in the sense that you are not in our shoes, your car is delivered, so it's way to easy to trivialize those whoe have not received their LEAFs. So I'm not saying that you have mis-represented any facts, just that your post should be taken in the light that you already have your LEAF, while others are waiting and watching some later orders (2 months) being delivered way ahead (3 months etsimated).