trucklover32
Member
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2016
- Messages
- 9
Why the Nissan Leaf, may in fact, be the worst car ever made.
First off, this is not meant to be a negative post. It’s meant to generate conversation and feedback. Second, I am a genuine Leaf owner and I do love the car. Third, I support 100% of my article with valid references and facts from verified sources.
Don’t get me wrong the Leaf is a great car however, there are aspects of the car that I can no longer avoid. Here goes….
Okay, I need some feedback on this article. I have a 2012 Leaf, with 44K miles. My daily range is around 50 miles at best. I have not lost my 9th bar and likely won't lose it by January 2017 when the warranty on the battery expires. Also I live in Florida, so battery degradation is significantly faster since it is considered a “hot” climate.
Now, let’s assume that in January 2017, the month ends and I still have 10 bars. My chance of getting the battery replaced under warranty will be gone. In February 2017 I finally lose the 9th bar. At that time, by Nissan’s own admission, the battery would be considered “faulty”; as in, no longer performing as engineered. The repair starts at $5,499 before labor and fitment brackets. For a round number let’s just call it a $6,000 repair.
By comparison suppose you had a 5 year old gas powered car with 44K miles that needed a $6,000 repair. That $6,000 repair would cover the ENTIRE cost of a brand new engine. And for $6,000 you could almost replace the transmission with a new one…TWICE. Have you EVER heard of a modern gas powered car that needed a brand new engine or transmission at only 44,000 miles? Sure there may be a few cars that blow a headgasket or throw a rod. But the vast majority of gas vehicles NEVER experience a catastrophic component failure (needing total engine or transmission replacement) before 60,000 miles.
**Note: According to ConsumerReports.com from 2007-2016 on average, 2% or less of ICE vehicles experienced a major engine or transmission failure. For the 2012 model year its 1%.
**Note: According to Edmunds.com, when purchasing a 2016 Nissan Leaf you will save $4,500 in fuel costs over 5 years when compared to an ICE vehicle that gets 25 MPG on average.
Many of you might contend that the Nissan Leaf is cheaper to operate than a comparable ICE vehicle. Fair point, but does the math add up? For the sake of argument, let’s assume for a minute that over the course of 5 years and 44,000 miles of driving that the Nissan Leaf saved you exactly $6,000 over a gas vehicle. Now you take that $6,000 you “saved” by owning the Leaf and replace the entire battery pack. At this point, you are literally neck and neck on cost with a gas vehicle. However, they story doesn’t end there.
I purchased my Nissan Leaf in January 2015 for $13,000 and it had 26,000 miles on it (and 11 capacity bars). In January of 2017 I will have owned the car for exactly 2 years and put approximately 20,000 miles on it (approximating 46,000 miles by January 2017). So that is about 10,000 miles per year, which is just below the national average. Now what if I just wanted to sell it instead of replacing the ageing battery?
As of today Kelly Blue Book values my car, in very good condition, to a private seller at $6,656. Now over the course of two years and 20,000 miles the value of the car has dropped by $6,344 or a whopping 48.8%!! So even if I am able to sell the car, I have still lost ~$6,000 in the car’s value. Now to be fair to Nissan, the massive drop in resale value is largely not their fault.
Replace entire battery pack: $6,000 or Sell car outright: -$6,000 in value lost in two years/20,000 miles
So I now have an all-electric car that has a nominal range of 50 miles and the only way to remedy that is to spend $6,000 on a new battery. As I continue to drive my Leaf the range will continue to drop. At some point around two years from now, the car will very likely not be practical for my roundtrip commute of 26 miles. Now that’s my experience with the Leaf, but how are other all-electric vehicles holding up?
The vast majority of Tesla’s and Volt’s are not displaying range drop of more than 10% at 100,000 miles. In comparison this makes the Leaf looks like a total lemon of an electric vehicle. All of this is traced to two main factors: air cooling of the battery and usable battery capacity. Nissan got both of these very wrong.
Air cooling is just not sufficient for electric vehicle battery packs. The very computer I am typing this post on actually uses liquid cooling for the CPU. Nissan missed the mark on battery pack cooling, period. Second, is the usable capacity of the battery. Both Tesla and Chevrolet have limited how much of the battery can be used before the vehicle stops. Nissan did not impose as strict of a limit, which shortens the life of the battery.
Nissan has addressed the battery issues to some degree in 2013 models and beyond. They modified the chemistry of the battery and in 2016 increased the kWh. However, the 30 kWh Leaf model still allows you to access 91% of the battery pack, which is likely still shortening the battery life. Nissan has also refused to redesign the Leaf with a liquid cooling system. It is also key to note that, Nissan settled a class-action lawsuit concerning the Leaf and its battery capacity degradation. While Nissan state that the lawsuit was without merit, actions speak louder than words. Their decision to extend the battery warranty is telling and the lawsuit was viewed as a win for Leaf owners.
In closing, the Nissan Leaf does have its advantages to include: environmentally friendly car, more efficient than ICE vehicles, leading us towards sustainable transportation adoption, and of course has the “cool factor”. All that aside for me personally, the Nissan Leaf is turning into a poor financial decision. If by some miracle I get the battery replaced under warranty, I may be able to salvage some of my investment in this car. In the end, I think a used Prius or a used Volt would have better suited my needs and been a more reliable vehicle over the long term despite both having ICE’s. Please feel free to politely comment on this article.
V/R,
James D.
Below are some excerpts from articles addressing battery degradation of other popular all-electric vehicles. None of them demonstrate the same problems that the Nissan Leaf continues to have.
Tesla battery life example:
“CEO Elon Musk once referred to a battery pack Tesla was testing in the lab. He said that the company had simulated over 500,000 miles on it and that it was still operating at over 80% of its original capacity.”
Volt battery life example:
“Now, however, we have a new data point: Erick Belmer's 2012 Chevrolet Volt range-extended electric car just crossed 300,000 miles last week, as he posted to a Volt Owner's Group on Facebook.
And Belmer says it shows no apparent degradation in either its battery capacity or its electric range (rated at 35 miles for that model year).
After 140 comments and almost 800 Likes, the general consensus among owners is that the Volt appears to be hugely durable, and that battery life is the least of a Volt driver's worries.”
References:
http://www.kbb.com
http://insideevs.com/breaking-30-kwh-2016-nissan-leaf-gets-epa-range-rating-107-miles/
http://www.hybridcars.com/zero-battery-degradation-replacements-giving-chevy-volts-an-edge/
https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/diagnosing-car-problems/mechanical/cars-less-problematic1.htm
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102736_durable-2012-chevrolet-volt-300000-miles-no-battery-loss
http://www.plugincars.com/no-active-thermal-management-did-nissan-make-right-call.html
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077731_how-to-keep-your-nissan-leafs-battery-pack-happy-in-hot-weather
http://insideevs.com/breaking-nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-5499-new-packs-heat-durable/
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/20/2011-2012-nissan-leaf-class-action-lawsuit-settled/
First off, this is not meant to be a negative post. It’s meant to generate conversation and feedback. Second, I am a genuine Leaf owner and I do love the car. Third, I support 100% of my article with valid references and facts from verified sources.
Don’t get me wrong the Leaf is a great car however, there are aspects of the car that I can no longer avoid. Here goes….
Okay, I need some feedback on this article. I have a 2012 Leaf, with 44K miles. My daily range is around 50 miles at best. I have not lost my 9th bar and likely won't lose it by January 2017 when the warranty on the battery expires. Also I live in Florida, so battery degradation is significantly faster since it is considered a “hot” climate.
Now, let’s assume that in January 2017, the month ends and I still have 10 bars. My chance of getting the battery replaced under warranty will be gone. In February 2017 I finally lose the 9th bar. At that time, by Nissan’s own admission, the battery would be considered “faulty”; as in, no longer performing as engineered. The repair starts at $5,499 before labor and fitment brackets. For a round number let’s just call it a $6,000 repair.
By comparison suppose you had a 5 year old gas powered car with 44K miles that needed a $6,000 repair. That $6,000 repair would cover the ENTIRE cost of a brand new engine. And for $6,000 you could almost replace the transmission with a new one…TWICE. Have you EVER heard of a modern gas powered car that needed a brand new engine or transmission at only 44,000 miles? Sure there may be a few cars that blow a headgasket or throw a rod. But the vast majority of gas vehicles NEVER experience a catastrophic component failure (needing total engine or transmission replacement) before 60,000 miles.
**Note: According to ConsumerReports.com from 2007-2016 on average, 2% or less of ICE vehicles experienced a major engine or transmission failure. For the 2012 model year its 1%.
**Note: According to Edmunds.com, when purchasing a 2016 Nissan Leaf you will save $4,500 in fuel costs over 5 years when compared to an ICE vehicle that gets 25 MPG on average.
Many of you might contend that the Nissan Leaf is cheaper to operate than a comparable ICE vehicle. Fair point, but does the math add up? For the sake of argument, let’s assume for a minute that over the course of 5 years and 44,000 miles of driving that the Nissan Leaf saved you exactly $6,000 over a gas vehicle. Now you take that $6,000 you “saved” by owning the Leaf and replace the entire battery pack. At this point, you are literally neck and neck on cost with a gas vehicle. However, they story doesn’t end there.
I purchased my Nissan Leaf in January 2015 for $13,000 and it had 26,000 miles on it (and 11 capacity bars). In January of 2017 I will have owned the car for exactly 2 years and put approximately 20,000 miles on it (approximating 46,000 miles by January 2017). So that is about 10,000 miles per year, which is just below the national average. Now what if I just wanted to sell it instead of replacing the ageing battery?
As of today Kelly Blue Book values my car, in very good condition, to a private seller at $6,656. Now over the course of two years and 20,000 miles the value of the car has dropped by $6,344 or a whopping 48.8%!! So even if I am able to sell the car, I have still lost ~$6,000 in the car’s value. Now to be fair to Nissan, the massive drop in resale value is largely not their fault.
Replace entire battery pack: $6,000 or Sell car outright: -$6,000 in value lost in two years/20,000 miles
So I now have an all-electric car that has a nominal range of 50 miles and the only way to remedy that is to spend $6,000 on a new battery. As I continue to drive my Leaf the range will continue to drop. At some point around two years from now, the car will very likely not be practical for my roundtrip commute of 26 miles. Now that’s my experience with the Leaf, but how are other all-electric vehicles holding up?
The vast majority of Tesla’s and Volt’s are not displaying range drop of more than 10% at 100,000 miles. In comparison this makes the Leaf looks like a total lemon of an electric vehicle. All of this is traced to two main factors: air cooling of the battery and usable battery capacity. Nissan got both of these very wrong.
Air cooling is just not sufficient for electric vehicle battery packs. The very computer I am typing this post on actually uses liquid cooling for the CPU. Nissan missed the mark on battery pack cooling, period. Second, is the usable capacity of the battery. Both Tesla and Chevrolet have limited how much of the battery can be used before the vehicle stops. Nissan did not impose as strict of a limit, which shortens the life of the battery.
Nissan has addressed the battery issues to some degree in 2013 models and beyond. They modified the chemistry of the battery and in 2016 increased the kWh. However, the 30 kWh Leaf model still allows you to access 91% of the battery pack, which is likely still shortening the battery life. Nissan has also refused to redesign the Leaf with a liquid cooling system. It is also key to note that, Nissan settled a class-action lawsuit concerning the Leaf and its battery capacity degradation. While Nissan state that the lawsuit was without merit, actions speak louder than words. Their decision to extend the battery warranty is telling and the lawsuit was viewed as a win for Leaf owners.
In closing, the Nissan Leaf does have its advantages to include: environmentally friendly car, more efficient than ICE vehicles, leading us towards sustainable transportation adoption, and of course has the “cool factor”. All that aside for me personally, the Nissan Leaf is turning into a poor financial decision. If by some miracle I get the battery replaced under warranty, I may be able to salvage some of my investment in this car. In the end, I think a used Prius or a used Volt would have better suited my needs and been a more reliable vehicle over the long term despite both having ICE’s. Please feel free to politely comment on this article.
V/R,
James D.
Below are some excerpts from articles addressing battery degradation of other popular all-electric vehicles. None of them demonstrate the same problems that the Nissan Leaf continues to have.
Tesla battery life example:
“CEO Elon Musk once referred to a battery pack Tesla was testing in the lab. He said that the company had simulated over 500,000 miles on it and that it was still operating at over 80% of its original capacity.”
Volt battery life example:
“Now, however, we have a new data point: Erick Belmer's 2012 Chevrolet Volt range-extended electric car just crossed 300,000 miles last week, as he posted to a Volt Owner's Group on Facebook.
And Belmer says it shows no apparent degradation in either its battery capacity or its electric range (rated at 35 miles for that model year).
After 140 comments and almost 800 Likes, the general consensus among owners is that the Volt appears to be hugely durable, and that battery life is the least of a Volt driver's worries.”
References:
http://www.kbb.com
http://insideevs.com/breaking-30-kwh-2016-nissan-leaf-gets-epa-range-rating-107-miles/
http://www.hybridcars.com/zero-battery-degradation-replacements-giving-chevy-volts-an-edge/
https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/under-the-hood/diagnosing-car-problems/mechanical/cars-less-problematic1.htm
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102736_durable-2012-chevrolet-volt-300000-miles-no-battery-loss
http://www.plugincars.com/no-active-thermal-management-did-nissan-make-right-call.html
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1077731_how-to-keep-your-nissan-leafs-battery-pack-happy-in-hot-weather
http://insideevs.com/breaking-nissan-prices-leaf-battery-replacement-5499-new-packs-heat-durable/
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2012/04/reliability-histories/index.htm
http://www.autoblog.com/2015/07/20/2011-2012-nissan-leaf-class-action-lawsuit-settled/
