Nissan,how could you Screw Up so BADLY

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jhm614 said:
I registered as soon as I could on 4/20, I was able to RAQ in September and my Leaf was delivered within 7 months after RAQ.

Yvonne, a supervisor with CS (and others), repeatedly told me that NO ONE from TX was allowed to order or had received an order date and that the original 5 roll out states would get to order and receive their LEAFs before TX and HI. What a crock of bulls***! When I told her that people from TX had posted on the forum that they ordered and the dealer from which they ordered, she told me they were just making it up, that it wasn't true at all. Who was to know that it would be soooo much worse with Jan/Feb orderes leapfrogging ours. I reserved at 3 PM on Apr. 20th, and because of some stupid error on ECOtality's part, I didn't get to order until Sept. 30th. But fear not, I was ASSured that build date was by reservation date and not order date...another BIG LIE.
I like the idea of choosing a dealer, price, etc., much better than the traditional way, but there are no excuses for how badly Nissan screwed everything up. IMO, Nissan hired a bunch of incompetent morons to run it. I can't wait for the J.D. Power Survey. I was planning on keeping the car after the lease, but now they've lost me as a customer and no matter what, it's going back. I don't now nor will I ever be able to trust Nissan again. They've dug a huge hole for themselves, and they only have themselves to blame.
 
LEAFfan said:
[nd because of some stupid error on ECOtality's part, I didn't get to order until Sept. 30th. But fear not, I was ASSured that build date was by reservation date and not order date...another BIG LIE.

To me, that re-affirms the fact the CS caused quite a bit of angst. The email blasts that I received from Nissan only said the rollout states would start the RAQ process in August (and they did, but just barely...) and that the 1A states (HI, TX) would start in September. Those emails never said that the roll-out states would complete all of their orders before the 1A states could start ordering.

I wonder if Blink's delayed UL listing affected you on the delivery date as well. Remember, at one point, they were having to install loaner EVSEs instead of the Blinks. Maybe they asked Nissan to tap the brakes on Project deliveries to decrease the double install costs (not to mention buying a bunch of competitors products...)
 
From the "May Deliveries" board:

xxxxx said:
I got my vin today (in my updated signature) when I went to register on carwings. However, that didn't go as smoothly. Apparently, my VIN and the communications system for the car weren't registered properly at the factory. I called Nissan CS and they were very helpful. They explained what happened, are going to get it corrected today and call me back.
Reserved: 7/6/10
Ordered: 2/9/11
Delivery: 5/30
Brilliant Silver SL-e w/ mud guards and floor-mats
ECOtality Blink (approved but pending)
VIN# 3405

So the screw up is most certainly not contained. Indeed, it's continuing before our eyes, and this is just the few who happen to be on this board.
No idea how many actual cases there are for each confirmed report, but as the order dates advance I'm going to guess that a progressively smaller % look for groups like mynissanleaf.com

Anyone annoyed with Nissan yet? ;-)
 
ttweed said:
... have admitted "the mistake," and they went "above and beyond" to make it right in my case. ...

TT
I think you showed a commendable diligence in pursuing the order SNAFU issue, with great results for yourself personally, and probably some improvement in Nissan efforts overall.
But isn't the " admitted "the mistake" " strictly a verbal admission to you alone on the phone?

I'm a recent fan of Nissan. Have owned a Nissan Altima since 2009 and it is far superior to the alternative mid-size vehicles offered by GM, Ford, and Toyota.
Nissan is to be highly commended for having done a huge amount right on the Leaf roll-out.
More than most companies have in the past on new product introductions.
Especially when selling a whole new idea and concept on transportation that most of the US market is completely ignorant about or at the very least hesitant about.
The direct to the customer approach may have had its flaws, but it is much better than the alternative.

But from a customer relations standpoint, I believe they have made a huge mistake in not acknowledging the details of the order SNAFU and apologizing to the customers.
Its not a contractual thing, as there was not a contractual commitment.
But there were statements of intent. And it is a matter of striving to maintain customer trust. When things happen that prevent those intentions from being carried out, the best result on customer trust can only be achieved by open communication that the original intent won't be carried out.

Nissan set out to build the world's first affordable mass produced vehicle. They did a lot to sell that fact, every positive aspect about it.
But waited to tell the customer much of anything about the unknowns and risks until presenting a contractual 3-4 page document at the final point of placing an order. Not very trust worthy to sell all the positives, and reveal all the negatives at the final point of ordering.
Nissan set out to deliver a lot of Leafs to the US by the end of December. Plans changed when they had to reallocate most production to Japan due to the tax incentives expiration and their inability to manufacture enough to deliver to the Japan market and meet their original intent on delivery to the US market. They apparently decided that sufficient communication was an E-mail stating delivery 4-7 months after order.
That's fairly opaque transparency that doesn't inspire much customer trust, at least not in a globally connected world in which customers communicate via forums such as MNL.
And on the order SNAFU, they appear to have decided that saying nothing to most customers, and providing some limited verbal acknowledgement to a few vociferous customers is sufficient.
They may be in a lose lose situation, they look bad no matter what they do on the order SNAFU.
They or a subcontractor made a bad mistake which violated everything about their original statement of intent.
They apparently decided that orders already in their vehicle manufacturing process would have to stay as is. Might have been a customer order in third week in January that proceeded into the manufacturing order system two weeks later (multiple months ahead of the initial customer orders that failed to be processed into the manufacturing order system). But too late to fix that, just get the customer orders back on track into the manufacturing order system.

But they did not communicate anything. In an interconnected world, lack of communication once a mistake is discovered is a bad choice.

I still have hopes they will learn to communicate and restore some of my trust. But the three things I've outlined don't make them look very trust worthy. But there's always a chance they will change.
 
Stoaty said:
daniel said:
But based on the CONSTANT stream of LIES that Nissan has been giving ALL OF US, I no longer believe there was a "computer glitch" in the ordering. This morning I woke up at 4:30 and could not get back to sleep, I was so upset and angry, running imaginary conversations through my head, about all their lies and deception and all the broken promises and the contempt they obviously have for their customers.
Enough with the conspiracy theories. Nissan is not out to get you personally, they don't have "contempt" for their customers. They are an imperfect business doing the best they can... which is falling short in some peoples eyes.
There's no conspiracy, and they're not out to get ME personally. They just don't give a rat's ass about their customers and they're treating us like garbage.

SteveInSeattle said:
... I don't see any contempt on their part, i am sure that Nissan would much preferred to meet thier original targets...
How about their decision to break their December/January delivery promise, in favor of diverting production to sales in Japan? If they wanted to sell the first year's production in Japan, that would have been a legitimate decision. But promising us delivery, and THEN changing their mind, but telling us nothing, just leaving us hanging, that showed contempt for us.

davewill said:
SteveInSeattle said:
The defenders of Nissan and those with their cars have to admit that Nissan's communication has been problematic. I have not been ranting or expressing emotions about the situation but nonetheless feel this is going to be a case study in business schools for a poorly run campaign. The 4-7 month promise alone was clearly a mistake-- many of us whose cars left Japan before the earthquake are well past the seven months. Of course, post-earthquake there is nothing Nissan could have done to avoid delays.

My car is now scheduled for the week of 5/6 and if it should come on the 6th it will be extactly eight months. Plus, since the car is in Long Beach one would think they could stick to a date-- but it has changed 4 times in the last 10 days. For awhile it ws moving two days further out every day. It would have all been fine if Nissan had not implied earlier deliveries and if they communicated clearly with their buyers. I don't see any contempt on their part, i am sure that Nissan would much preferred to meet thier original targets-- after all ,the don't get paid until the car gets built and delivered!
Sure they've made TONS of mistakes and I think it's good that people can come here and complain. It's done a lot of good. It's the conspiracy theories that are driving ME up the wall. Nissan is not out to get anyone. They screwed up, and like a lot of big companies would have liked to sweep it under the rug. Thanks to the forum, it hasn't swept so well.
I repeat: There's no conspiracy. There's just a pattern of general contempt for their customers, shown in their refusal to be straightforward with us in explanations of all the delays and so-called "lost orders" and all the rest of it.

gbshaun said:
leafkabob said:
For those folks who ordered in 2011 and are tired of the complaining from the 2010 people who were passed over, and for those folks who have their cars and are also tired of the complaining, may I suggest you simply not read this thread? Leave it to us complainers. ;)

Maybe we need to start a NEW thread "Most screwed by Nissan"
So far the front runners are SteveinSeattle, and Daniel.

I expect discussions be of this nature: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xe1a1wHxTyo
I am NOT by any means in the "most screwed b y Nissan" category. I'm just vocal about how I feel concerning their total contempt for ALL their customers.

xtremeflyer said:
<snip>

What I most want from Nissan (and others as well based on the discussions at mynissanleaf.com), is a formal statement of what happened, how it is being addressed and an apology. I hope that Nissan can give the respect to the customers that are making the Nissan Leaf the success it is and be honest with us.
EXACTLY!!!

evnow said:
Jimmydreams said:
Problems with the car? Unavoidable, but acceptable due to Ver 1.0. Early adopters expect this and easily forgive.
Problems with the rollout? COMPLETELY avoidable and foreseeable. Unacceptable for any stage of vehicle version. Early adopters don't forgive this because it shouldn't be this messed up. Poor planning.
Actually, the rollout is completely new too - only problem is instead of Ver 1.0 it turned out to be a beta version. Poor choice of vendors they selected (both for PR and their web software) complicated matters. Nissan was simply not equipped to handle this kind of rollout and they are learning on the job.

As an earlier post pointed out - they don't deal directly with customers, but with dealers.

For all the problems, would it have been better to do the rollout in a traditional way through dealers ? We would all have been at the mercy of dealers. Probably a good poll question ...

(goes to make a poll)

update : Oh well, some problem with the poll. I'll check with Mike.
I bought my Prius in January of 2004. I paid MSRP. A few dealers charged a lot extra to people willing to pay to get their cars faster, but most dealers charged MSRP and sold cars in the order deposits were placed. It all went very smoothly. The only glitch was that demand was so great that there were long waits, but for the most part you had a pretty good idea of the time frame when you placed your order.
 
Well said Daniel.

My reservation was delayed by 6 days (4/26 instead of 4/20) because Nissan kept saying the email was coming but never did and they finally created a new account manually for me and as soon as I had the account I put in my reservation (The sad thing is that Nissan marketing is able to send me email on regular basis, just not the order processing system). This put me as an 11/30 order (I placed my order as soon quickly as I could). When the EV project was extended to my area my dashboard did not offer a survey until I called customer support (and once again once there was something for me to do I did it promptly). Up to that point I had been reasonably patient. The original mistake put me behind the "Sep/Oct" people. The current situation puts me behind the "Sept/Oct" *and* "Jan/Feb" and the most likely prize that I get for my patience:

o Denials from Nissan
o reduced CA rebate

I've heard some Tesla owners say that we have nothing on their wait. Delays are certainly frustrating but what is infuriating is see the exact same car you wanted delivered to someone who ordered later and to add insult to injury knowing that they will likely get the rebate that your were hoping for.

arnold
 
Honestly, I just think this is an example of the same lesson that Google learned the hard way: just because you can make what other people sell, doesn't mean you're equipped to sell it yourselves.

Google thought they could sell the Nexus One directly, and it was a disaster; they didn't know how to handle customer service, they didn't know how to handle shipping, etc. As a result, after the Nexus One, you'll notice the Nexus S went back to being sold directly by the carriers.

Nissan's probably in the same boat. They make good cars, but they're used to the customer-facing service being handled by the actual dealers. Sure, the dealers are part of 'Nissan,' but they handle things completely separately from Nissan corporate normally. Nissan's not used to having to interact with the customers directly, and I suspect as a result they're more than a little overwhelmed and things get lost in the shuffle.

Or in other words, I don't think Nissan "doesn't give a rat's ass about the customers." This strikes me as less 'apathy' and more 'singularly ill-equipped to handle the level of interest while also figuring out how to do customer service on the corporate side.'
 
Do you think orders from dealers are always messed up this same way?
I suspect Nissan has a good system but decided to reinvent the wheel.

Why not have the dealer place the order through the existing channels. Then just give the customer a limited window on the production, shipping and delivery progress.
 
Apparently Nissan wanted to cut the dealers out of the negotiation over price. But IMO this was unnecessary and, as Packet points out, this put them into a business where they had no experience, and less competence. So they outsourced it to people they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN were also incompetent. The fear was that dealers would gouge buyers. Did Nissan dealers have a history of gouging buyers? The majority of Toyota dealers did not gouge buyers when the Prius came out, or when the 2004 turned out to be far more popular than expected. When Saturn decided they wanted to eliminate the vagaries of car pricing, they just imposed a contract on dealers that the cars would be sold at a set price. Nissan could have done the same. My Nissan dealer is the only Leaf dealer anywhere near here, so they could have demanded more for the car, but in fact they are selling them for MSRP. There was in fact no need for Nissan to change the way it sells cars. They could have allocated cars to dealers based on volume, as Toyota did with the Prius. A few probably would have overcharged. Most probably would have sold at MSRP. A few people who got deep discounts from dealers trying to bring in business from people too far away to drive the car home probably would not have gotten the discounts, but it would have been more fair to the dealers, who would then have been more likely to support the car.

The present Leaf distribution system, if it had worked, seemed great for buyers and lousy for dealers: Given limited supply, the buyer had the allocation. But dealers lost out because one dealer in a region willing to undercut the others took all the business. Nissan screwed us by outsourcing the process to incompetents, and by choosing Aerovironment for the EVSE production and installation, but they also screwed their dealers by a system that for many of them took away their profit; and a business needs profit in order to operate.
 
daniel said:
There was in fact no need for Nissan to change the way it sells cars. They could have allocated cars to dealers based on volume, as Toyota did with the Prius. A few probably would have overcharged. Most probably would have sold at MSRP.

What they probably /intended/ to do was to handle the initial orders so that everything would be more targeted; instead of just the dealers putting in orders and waiting to see how long it takes (and potentially having some dealers put in orders for more LEAFs than they actually had reserved, in order to try to get more of the supply available for their area), I imagine Nissan figured that this method would allow them to precisely target areas of interest and get the cars to those most interested in a timely manner.

In theory, I can see it being great. Interested individuals reserve a slot (thus marking interest), then sort out their order, pick a dealer, negotiate the price with the dealer, the dealer locks it in with Nissan's system, and then Nissan keeps both dealer and customer in the loop on the production of the car and the delivery date. If everything had worked according to plan, it might've been awesome.

But like Google with the Nexus One, Nissan corporate was ill-equipped to do customer-facing service. There's a huge difference between dealing with the back end supply channels (Nissan to the dealers, or Google to the various handset makers) and dealing with customers directly. So, as a result, everything seems to have gone somewhat to pot. :roll:
 
Nissan's biggest order fulfillment problem has nothing to do with dealers and would not have been avoided had dealers taken the initial orders.

Some Nissan genius decided to not correct a known problem with assignment of VINs to customers who should not have been getting them. I hope that genius paid with his job. But we will never know, because Nissan could teach the Sphinx a thing or two about stony silence.
 
Packet said:
daniel said:
There was in fact no need for Nissan to change the way it sells cars. They could have allocated cars to dealers based on volume, as Toyota did with the Prius. A few probably would have overcharged. Most probably would have sold at MSRP.

What they probably /intended/ to do was to handle the initial orders so that everything would be more targeted; instead of just the dealers putting in orders and waiting to see how long it takes (and potentially having some dealers put in orders for more LEAFs than they actually had reserved, in order to try to get more of the supply available for their area), I imagine Nissan figured that this method would allow them to precisely target areas of interest and get the cars to those most interested in a timely manner.
All Nissan had to do was require the customer reservation number with the order using the existing dealer system.
 
Just FYI on the letter I sent.. I never did get a response from Brian Carolin, Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing that I sent a month ago letting them know my disappointment of the order snafu. Because I now have received my Leaf, I don't know if its appropriate for me to recontact and ask for details, even though I believe I and many other deserve it.

If anyone else is a "forgotten" order as is still waiting their Leaf, below is Brian's contact info, maybe you'll have better luck. I would mention how it doesn't seem appropriate that dealers are receiving their demo vehicles ahead of your order, especially as time is running out on the $5k rebate from California (at least $2500 of it).

Brian Carolin
Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing
[email protected]
 
xtremeflyer said:
I would mention how it doesn't seem appropriate that dealers are receiving their demo vehicles ahead of your order, especially as time is running out on the $5k rebate from California (at least $2500 of it).
How do you know that dealers are now getting demo vehicles, I haven't heard of this before. I have heard that dealers have orphans, but that obvious is not the same thing.
 
LALeaf said:
xtremeflyer said:
I would mention how it doesn't seem appropriate that dealers are receiving their demo vehicles ahead of your order, especially as time is running out on the $5k rebate from California (at least $2500 of it).
How do you know that dealers are now getting demo vehicles, I haven't heard of this before. I have heard that dealers have orphans, but that obvious is not the same thing.
My dealer has a demo, and also has a list of people desperately wanting a Leaf. I do not actually know, but I doubt it's an orphan, because I think he'd have sold it if it was.

I won't be writing to the v.p., though. I would not be able to be polite at this point, and though I vent here, I don't write impolite letters to individuals.
 
Daniel, some Washington dealer had a salesman with a 4/20 reservation date on the list. That salesman canceled and created a de facto demo, IIRC.

If anyone else has seen a dealer demo car elsewhere, please report it here.
 
LALeaf said:
How do you know that dealers are now getting demo vehicles, I haven't heard of this before. I have heard that dealers have orphans, but that obvious is not the same thing.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=95750#p95750

mossyleaf said:
Mossy Nissan Kearny Mesa Now has a Blue SV as a Dealer demonstrator! If you have been itchin for a drive or another drive since your last please come by for a spin! Our's arrived today (along with my Leaf :D) and other Demo models will be appearing at the Other Mossy Locations Soon!
 
I reserved on 4/21. This was the same morning I got the e-mail that reservations were open. Apparently, reservations opened on 4/20, but I was just late in the e-mail list or something. That's the first problem right there.

Then, I ordered on 12/1. I was told I'd get to order earlier -- initially, I was going to be *getting* the car in December -- but that didn't happen.

I got a March estimate. Then an April estimate. Then the tsunami hit. Then Nissan called me, because I've written them and complained -- they said I had a VIN allocation scheduled for May 9. This was weeks after the tsunami. Then, early May, instead of getting a VIN, I got a "your time has been changed" -- and now there's an estimated delivery of sometime in July, perhaps, maybe.

At least I installed the charger in December 2010, so I got the 50% federal credit. However, the California credit is probably just a pie in the sky at this point -- they don't have money to re-fund that program, and it's running dry, what with people buying Teslas and Volts and stuff, and people reserving the car way later than me getting to order and/or deliver earlier. A friend of mine reserved later, but ended up with an April delivery.

I was going to not pay for renewed registration on my 1995 Volkswagen Golf (I bought it new!) that expired May, but that now I did. I'll keep driving that, and using my electric bike, until such time that Nissan decides it actually wants to sell me an electric vehicle, OR someone else actually is able to deliver a similar electric vehicle sooner.
Btw: If this takes too long, then credit union offers of 60 month 2.99% financing are going to go away, which would be sad, too, because it would mean that Nissan's delay is costing me even more than the $5,000 California credit.

I hope I'll still be able to get the HOV lane sticker when I finally get mine...
 
jwatte said:
However, the California credit is probably just a pie in the sky at this point -- they don't have money to re-fund that program, and it's running dry, what with people buying Teslas and Volts and stuff, and people reserving the car way later than me getting to order and/or deliver earlier.
A couple of corrections:

1) The program is not running dry, just decreasing the rebate from $5,000 to $2,500 when the funds for 2010-2011 run out in a month or so. Funds expected to be allocated for 2011-2012 are $12-17 million
2) The Volt does not qualify for the CA rebate
 
Good news for me that the rebate is lowered rather than lost, I guess. Although I'd rather have taken the original December delivery date, full rebate, in a low-interest-rate envronment ;-)
Thanks for the information! (And you're right; the Volt won't qualify until next model year, from what I hear)
 
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