How's your 12v battery health?

[TomT]

Maybe I've been lucky but I've never had to replace a car battery before six years. At that rate, lithium would never pay back.

At my 2 year battery check, my 12 volt battery tested out as near perfect, by the way... 10 out of 10.

By the time you've replaced that lead acid battery 2 or 3 times, you'll realize Lithium isn't such a bad deal (not to mention the longer "run time" of accessories). Once you've had Lithium you'll never go back

 

[Ingineer]

I also agree a Lithium 12V replacement is not worth doing. If you want to run your radio in the driveway, simply put the car in Ready and you'll run it from the main pack. You can also plug in the EVSE to 120v, and while it's charging slowly, it's also powering everything in the car, regardless of mode. So you can put the car in ACCY mode and as long as the EVSE is charging, all your loads are powered from the wall.

-Phil

 

[LEAFfan]

I also agree a Lithium 12V replacement is not worth doing. If you want to run your radio in the driveway, simply put the car in Ready and you'll run it from the main pack. You can also plug in the EVSE to 120v, and while it's charging slowly, it's also powering everything in the car, regardless of mode. So you can put the car in ACCY mode and as long as the EVSE is charging, all your loads are powered from the wall.

-Phil

Everything except the HVAC on 120V.

 

[Ingineer]

There are some AGMs, such as Optima, at around $170.
Are they a better choice?

Given my experience with the Optima in my Prius (is often deep-cycled and is still alive), I'll probably replace my OEM with an Optima as soon as it craps out.

-Phil

 

[Ingineer]

Everything except the HVAC.

The HVAC is, up to the limit of the EVSE. My experience shows 120v will keep the car cool if it's already cooled down with no SoC loss. I'm sure the heater would be a net loss. If your goal is to run the HVAC continuously, I'd go with Level 2. If you have one of my programmable amperage EVSE Upgrades, you can match it pretty closely to your load and keep your battery SoC almost constant. I suppose with a little trial and error, you could get the car to stay on charge indefinitely with the HVAC running. (Not that it's a good idea)

-Phil

 

[toasty]

anyone know what size battery it is? (from a regular auto parts store?)


And since (unlike the prius/volt) its not inside the cabin of the car, is it ok to use a regular lead battery?

 

[TomT]

It's the second row, third from right. :lol:
And yes, the standard battery is already a lead-acid.

anyone know what size battery it is? (from a regular auto parts store?) And since (unlike the prius/volt) its not inside the cabin of the car, is it ok to use a regular lead battery?

 

[Nubo]

anyone know what size battery it is? (from a regular auto parts store?)

Ingineer listed the size designation a couple of pages back.

 

[DaveEV]

anyone know what size battery it is? (from a regular auto parts store?)

O'Reilly Auto lists a Group 51R battery as the replacement.

Optima 8073-167 D51R YELLOWTOP is probably the one you want. Appears to be the same as what's used in the Honda Fit.

 

[TimLee]

51R is correct. The dealer warranty replacement of the factory battery is labeled 51R. It is a bit better than the factory battery, in that it is 450 CCA, while the factory battery specification sheet lists it as 410 CCA.
http://www.optimabatteries.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; lists the 8073-167 D51R Yellow Top at $199.99, free six pack cooler if you order from them. But with shipping costs you might get it less expensively from a local Optima distributor.

 

[planet4ever]

51R is correct. The dealer warranty replacement of the factory battery is labeled 51R. It is a bit better than the factory battery, in that it is 450 CCA, while the factory battery specification sheet lists it as 410 CCA.

So why does more CCA make it a "better" battery for a LEAF? I'd be surprised to hear that the car ever pulls as much as 100A, and that's with the lights on high beam, the Bose speakers cranked up to full volume, and the kids "racing" the two back windows against each other.

It seems to me a LEAF battery should be optimized for more amp hours and fewer amps.

Ray

 

[dgpcolorado]

...It seems to me a LEAF battery should be optimized for more amp hours and fewer amps.

Ray

Given its current implementation in the LEAF, the battery ought to be the deep discharge variety. My impression, from what others have posted on the subject, is that the AGM variety would likely last much longer with the current LEAF charging regimen.

I'm surprised that Nissan doesn't seem to have improved the 12 V battery charge maintenance algorithm in the LEAF. As you know, standard lead acid batteries tend to last longer when kept fully charged. How hard could it be for a LEAF to keep the 12 V battery fully charged by supplying it with the correct voltage and topping it off as soon as the voltage declines a bit? I must be missing something...

 

[mwalsh]

BTW, just so everyone knows...I didn't change out my 12v battery yet. Gonna let that baby die first, even if it inconveniences me some (so long as the car doesn't die or explode while hurtling down the fast lane of the freeway).

 

[TimLee]

51R is correct. The dealer warranty replacement of the factory battery is labeled 51R. It is a bit better than the factory battery, in that it is 450 CCA, while the factory battery specification sheet lists it as 410 CCA.

So why does more CCA make it a "better" battery for a LEAF? I'd be surprised to hear that the car ever pulls as much as 100A, and that's with the lights on high beam, the Bose speakers cranked up to full volume, and the kids "racing" the two back windows against each other.

It seems to me a LEAF battery should be optimized for more amp hours and fewer amps.

Ray

I agree Ray, that what you want is more amp hours, not CCA.
But hardly any of the battery suppliers provide amp hours information anymore.
Little surprising that the factory 55B24L(S) has published data of capacity of 36 AH (5hr) and 45 AH (20hr).
The warranty replacement 51R battery label only listed CCA 450, and RC 85.
Although you probably could design and build a lead acid battery that had higher CCA and no increase in amp hours; in general I don't think that usually is the case. The battery with higher CCA will probably have higher amp hours too.

 

[TimLee]

...It seems to me a LEAF battery should be optimized for more amp hours and fewer amps.

Ray

Given its current implementation in the LEAF, the battery ought to be the deep discharge variety. My impression, from what others have posted on the subject, is that the AGM variety would likely last much longer with the current LEAF charging regimen.

I'm surprised that Nissan doesn't seem to have improved the 12 V battery charge maintenance algorithm in the LEAF. As you know, standard lead acid batteries tend to last longer when kept fully charged. How hard could it be for a LEAF to keep the 12 V battery fully charged by supplying it with the correct voltage and topping it off as soon as the voltage declines a bit? I must be missing something...

The Optima Yellowtop battery is designed for both deep cycling and high starting current. Their Bluetop is just for deep cycling, but they don't list a 51R in the Bluetop.
Kind of sad that Optima hasn't updated their on line battery selection to include the LEAF. LEAF is in its third model year, awfully slow to not include the LEAF, when the Optima Yellowtop is probably the best replacement choice.
+1 on the surprise that Nissan has been this slow to do something about the 12V issues, as I stated earlier in the thread.

 

[TimLee]

BTW, just so everyone knows...I didn't change out my 12v battery yet. Gonna let that baby die first, even if it inconveniences me some (so long as the car doesn't die or explode while hurtling down the fast lane of the freeway).

That's what I'll probably do with the warranty replacement battery too.
But it would be nice to be able to know roughly when it is going to be close to failure.
As Ingineer pointed out in the other thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12872&start=10#p294278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, "you cannot check the 12V battery properly using a voltmeter. You must use a transconductance analyzer or at least a decent load tester. Most dealers have a midtronics tester that uses the transconductance method".
Even LEAFSCAN or other devices that will give you the 12V battery voltage isn't necessarily going to warn you the 12V is going to die soon.
Maybe best to have the battery tested say every 3 months, and trend the loss in capacity?

 

[dgpcolorado]

That's what I'll probably do with the warranty replacement battery too.
But it would be nice to be able to know roughly when it is going to be close to failure.
As Ingineer pointed out in the other thread http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12872&start=10#p294278" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, "you cannot check the 12V battery properly using a voltmeter. You must use a transconductance analyzer or at least a decent load tester. Most dealers have a midtronics tester that uses the transconductance method".
Even LEAFSCAN or other devices that will give you the 12V battery voltage isn't necessarily going to warn you the 12V is going to die soon.
Maybe best to have the battery tested say every 3 months, and trend the loss in capacity?

Assuming one doesn't mind the hassle, how about just hooking it up to a battery tender while the battery remains healthy? That ought to keep it fully charged regardless of the drain from running the LEAF standby systems. Less hassle to just put in a deep cycle battery though.

 

[Ingineer]

Yes, anything you can do to mitigate the deep-cycling will extend the life. Hooking it up to a proper 3-stage charger is a great idea. I recommend the CTEK chargers, as they are the best on the market I have used.

Larger reserve capacity means the deep-cycling is more shallow, so the battery will last longer. CCA has no bearing for the Leaf.

-Phil

 

[TimLee]

Reserve capacity listed for the 55B24L(S) original battery was 70, so the warranty replacement with RC of 85 is some improvement.
A 21% improvement on reserve capacity, versus 9% improvement on CCA. But they both trended in the same direction.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I was wondering about this issue just today. Nissan should have programmed the car to top off the 12 volt battery using the DC/DC converter whenever the voltage drops below 12.5 or even higher, for best life. Oh Boy, wrong again! I can't say enough good things about the Battery Tender JR., from it's low cost and high reliability, to the extra ring-end leads they include for "hard wiring" to batteries. The unit uses a quick-disconnect, so you can connect or disconnect it in about 10 seconds. How hard would it be to add the leads to the Leaf's accessory battery? I haven't even had my hood open yet, after 5 days...