How's your 12v battery health?

[dhanson865]

that looks pretty small, what is the size of the stock battery in inches (LxWxH)?

They're fairly comparable in width and height. The 420T is shorter in length, at 7.7" vs stock at just over 9", iirc.

However, if you shine a flashlight from behind the OEM case you see just how much of that interior volume is reserved for free liquid electrolyte. In contrast, by using concentrated electrolyte in thin absorbent mats only where it's needed, there is more room for Lead and Lead Oxide. The AGM design allows the battery to have smaller physical dimensions but still have more capacity.

The stock battery from my Prius is 9" x 4.5" x 8", just trying to get a sense of scale for this picture if the leaf battery is about the same size or not.

 

[Nubo]

that looks pretty small, what is the size of the stock battery in inches (LxWxH)?

They're fairly comparable in width and height. The 420T is shorter in length, at 7.7" vs stock at just over 9", iirc.

However, if you shine a flashlight from behind the OEM case you see just how much of that interior volume is reserved for free liquid electrolyte. In contrast, by using concentrated electrolyte in thin absorbent mats only where it's needed, there is more room for Lead and Lead Oxide. The AGM design allows the battery to have smaller physical dimensions but still have more capacity.

The stock battery from my Prius is 9" x 4.5" x 8", just trying to get a sense of scale for this picture if the leaf battery is about the same size or not.

Off the top of my head, the stock battery is something like 9.2 x 5.1 x 8 That might not be exact, but pretty close. It sits in a small plastic tray, which then sits on top of a significantly larger metal tray. There is room for a larger battery. I was actually hoping to use an Odyssey PC1200MJT, because they're good batteries and it has a lovely orange metal case that would compliment the LEAF's wiring. Yeah, I'm nuts. But the width was just a bit too much.

 

[Becky50]

HELP, please. So if and when my 12 volt battery stops functioning, should I get a replacement from a Nissan dealer or AAA. Can I assume either will know which battery I will need? I have no mechanical training and will not be replacing it myself.
Thanks in advance,
Becky

 

[Ingineer]

The OEM battery in the Leaf is a 55B24L(S). The (S) denotes SAE posts. This is a very common battery and most manufacturers should have a cross-reference for it. You don't need to buy the original one which is made by Hitachi (Shin-Kobe).

-Phil

 

[Becky50]

Thanks, Phil.
Becky

 

[Nubo]

...what I do see is a near short directly in the center of the photograph. If these plates can easily short around the edges of the insulators, I wonder what the resistance of that short would be.

I think the "wavy" material is the plastic separators. so ok if they touch.

 

[batavia]

Last weekend, I had the tires rotated on my 2011 Leaf SL. As part of the complementary tests, the 12V lead acid accessory or housekeeping battery got a bad reading. I was surprised at this since the car has a solar panel to charge this battery and we park it outside most weekdays. Since the car is less than 2 years old, the battery is still under the full non-prorated warranty and Nissan replaced it at no charge.

After I picked up the car, my radio stations, etc. were intact. The charging and climate timer settings were intact as well. However, the timers somehow became "inactive". When I plugged in the car last night, it started charging right away to 100%. (The timer was set to 80%.) Just a heads up to anyone who goes through the same procedure -- check your charging timers and other settings after the 12V battery is replaced, even if your radio station settings are preserved.

2011 Nissan Leaf SL
Blue Ocean
Delivery: June 30, 2011

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Last weekend, I had the tires rotated on my 2011 Leaf SL. As part of the complementary tests, the 12V lead acid accessory or housekeeping battery got a bad reading. I was surprised at this since the car has a solar panel to charge this battery and we park it outside most weekdays. Since the car is less than 2 years old, the battery is still under the full non-prorated warranty and Nissan replaced it at no charge.

After I picked up the car, my radio stations, etc. were intact. The charging and climate timer settings were intact as well. However, the timers somehow became "inactive". When I plugged in the car last night, it started charging right away to 100%. (The timer was set to 80%.) Just a heads up to anyone who goes through the same procedure -- check your charging timers and other settings after the 12V battery is replaced, even if your radio station settings are preserved.

2011 Nissan Leaf SL
Blue Ocean
Delivery: June 30, 2011

shouldnt be a surprise. the mismanagement of the 12 volt battery system is pretty well known more or less. the fact that your issue was caught is great because there have been a handful that were stuck with a dead 12 volt battery and without that, nothing works.

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2013/01/12-volt-battery-management-houston-weve.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


the kicker is that your solar panel only provides 35 watts or so and for a very short part of the day while your 12 volt battery does duty nearly all the time. if you drive daily, your "defective" battery may have never given you a problem. I check my voltage on a random basis and see it in the 12.2-12.4 volt range most of the time which is not good for lead acid. they like to be at 100%...

 

[cwerdna]

the kicker is that your solar panel only provides 35 watts or so and for a very short part of the day while your 12 volt battery does duty nearly all the time. if you drive daily, your "defective" battery may have never given you a problem. I check my voltage on a random basis and see it in the 12.2-12.4 volt range most of the time which is not good for lead acid. they like to be at 100%...

35 watts? Do you have a source for that? That sounds awful high for a panel that size. The much larger panel for the optional solar roof on the Prius has a nominal output of 60 watts.

I'd guess somewhere between 5 to 10 watts, judging by the size of solar battery maintainers I've seen.

 

[TomT]

I measured it a long time ago at something around 5 watts peak...

35 watts? Do you have a source for that? That sounds awful high for a panel that size.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the kicker is that your solar panel only provides 35 watts or so and for a very short part of the day while your 12 volt battery does duty nearly all the time. if you drive daily, your "defective" battery may have never given you a problem. I check my voltage on a random basis and see it in the 12.2-12.4 volt range most of the time which is not good for lead acid. they like to be at 100%...

35 watts? Do you have a source for that? That sounds awful high for a panel that size. The much larger panel for the optional solar roof on the Prius has a nominal output of 60 watts.

I'd guess somewhere between 5 to 10 watts, judging by the size of solar battery maintainers I've seen.

no source, just vague memories. I would go with 15 watts? :? either way, the point is its useless for charging the 12 volt battery

 

[surfingslovak]

TomT measured between 5 and 9 Watts output from the panel in direct sun in LA. You might want to peruse an older thread about this.

 

[TimLee]

Danger, Will Robinson!! :shock: :shock:
Have your 12V battery checked!
Had my annual pack battery test done on 12-21-2013, along with the brake fluid flush required by the warranty, and the comprehensive check. (2011 LEAF in service date 05-17-2011, 13508 miles, build date 03-10-2011, the day before the tsunami)
Fortunately Mountain View Nissan tests the 12V battery on every vehicle they service, and found that the 12V originally 410 cold cranking amp battery had degraded down to 255 cold cranking amps.
It is fully covered under the vehicle 3 yr / 36,000 mile warranty, and they replaced it at no cost with Nissan 999M1-NB51R Group 51R battery, CCA 450, RC 85. If it fails prior to 3 yr / 36,000 miles will be replaced again at no cost. I need to check the extended warranty I bought, but is unlikely that it covers the 12V battery.
The service manager also drives a LEAF and has >30,000 miles on it with no capacity bars lost yet and 12V battery still OK. This is the first LEAF 12V battery that they have replaced. Probably service 30 to 60 LEAFs.
So is still a bit unclear as to how severe the LEAF 12V battery problem is.
I have never left the LEAF plugged in to the EVSE for more than 12 hours without it charging, because we have learned that more than 5 to 6 days of that will definitely drain the 12V battery.
The first ten months, the LEAF was in use and charged back to 80% at least 6 days out of 7. The last 14 months I've been retired. It is usually used and recharged at least every 3 to 4 days. Maybe only one or two times that it wasn't used for >5 days.
I do use the 12V battery a lot in the summer gardening season for listening to the radio / pod casts, but always with the HV active so the pack keeps the 12V charged. That may have put more cycles on the 12V battery, but that is one of the great advantages of the LEAF that you can do that, and a lot of people do that.
I did some checking but couldn't find a good alternative 51R that was much better than the original. Highest CCA I found was 500.
There are some AGMs, such as Optima, at around $170.
Are they a better choice?
It seems surprising to me that Nissan has had the LEAF in service now for 2 1/2 years, and they still haven't corrected the software that lets the 12V battery go dead if you leave it plugged into the EVSE for > 5 days. Shouldn't they be quicker than that? :? :?
They may just now be recognizing deficiencies in the 12V charging protocol.
They need to get on with further review and analysis of the 12V battery charging issues.
Only 2 year life on a 12V battery, when the LEAF has a very robust 12V battery charging system, is down right ridiculous. :roll: :roll:

 

[Stanton]

Sounds like you might want to replace that "stock" 12v battery with a Lithium battery; I've listened to baseball on my driveway for hours with no issues--and haven't lost anything at the airport either (just like the traction battery). They cost more than a lead acid battery, but are perfect for an EV like the Leaf. Checkout my blog (links at top of the forum page) about my experience (and what I bought).

 

[TimLee]

Sounds like you might want to replace that "stock" 12v battery with a Lithium battery; I've listened to baseball on my driveway for hours with no issues--and haven't lost anything at the airport either (just like the traction battery). They cost more than a lead acid battery, but are perfect for an EV like the Leaf. Checkout my blog (links at top of the forum page) about my experience (and what I bought).

Great battery Stanton. But $841.05? :shock: :shock:
I can replace it with a slightly better than OEM Autozone Duralast Gold lead acid battery seven times, fourteen years worth of service or more, for that amount. Only drawback is the time wasted having them change it every two years.

 

[Stanton]

Great battery Stanton. But $841.05? :shock: :shock:
I can replace it with a slightly better than OEM Autozone Duralast Gold lead acid battery seven times, fourteen years worth of service or more, for that amount. Only drawback is the time wasted having them change it every two years.

It can be had for less if you ask nicely
By the time you've replaced that lead acid battery 2 or 3 times, you'll realize Lithium isn't such a bad deal (not to mention the longer "run time" of accessories). Once you've had Lithium you'll never go back

 

[toasty]

what is the official nissan 12v battery warranty?



3yr/36k?

or only the 2yr/24k miles? (then rest prorated).

 

[planet4ever]

what is the official nissan 12v battery warranty? 3yr/36k? or only the 2yr/24k miles? (then rest prorated).

The Warranty Information Booklet says full coverage for 2 years without regard to mileage, then pro rated to seven (!) years. And naturally the pro-rata is based on Nissan suggested retail price of a new battery, so (for example) at 33-50 months you pay 50% of their inflated price.

And then there is the pesky footnote:

1 Actual warranty is provided by the dealer at time of purchase and should be read carefully. This warranty is subject to change and the applicable warranty will be that which is in effect on the date of purchase.

Ray

 

[Stanton]

I've never bought a 12v battery from a dealer and probably never will; the most extreme (price gouging) case I've seen was my Mini Cooper (about 3x what I bought it for @Batteries+). I think the Leaf is an ideal car to replace the lead-acid battery with Lithium.

 

[TimLee]

what is the official nissan 12v battery warranty?



3yr/36k?

or only the 2yr/24k miles? (then rest prorated).

Mountain View dealership said the original 12V battery was fully covered for replacement for 3 years / 36,000 miles, although Ray is correct that the warranty booklet statement is different.
On my warranty replacement battery, the dealership did state that it is only covered to work till the original 3 years / 36,000 miles. Although the warranty statement on the replacement battery is 2 years full replacement, 84 months prorated, that does not apply because I didn't buy the replacement battery.
The warranty replacement should last 2 years, but I'm still not sure what I'll replace it with then.