How should Nissan respond to dropping capacity?

[palmermd]

There is no data to support this statement, but I believe that they will eventually have some sort of accommodation for those owners who experience statistically unusual battery capacity degradation. I don't see that data gelling for another 2-3 years.

The other problem is that it appears that statistically speaking everyone in Phoenix has degradation, so the person who would benefit would be the statistical oddball who still has capacity.

 

[Herm]

However, hit the road for Los Angeles in the summer, and the story changes. Freeway speeds drop to 60-65 to extend range for charging at a Bylthe RV park. A/C is totally dedicated to the battery, so it is windows down and lots of water to drink.

He is charging at 7kW or higher, the AC cant take more than 2kW to keep the insulated battery cool. Still, that is a pretty gutsy drive from Phoenix to LA in an electric car, in the summertime!.

Regarding what Nissan will do?.. they will do something soon before the bad publicity gets totally out of hand... but its not to their benefit to react too quickly. A reassurance just about now would be nice.

 

[SanDust]

However, hit the road for Los Angeles in the summer, and the story changes. Freeway speeds drop to 60-65 to extend range for charging at a Bylthe RV park. A/C is totally dedicated to the battery, so it is windows down and lots of water to drink. At Blythe, a signicant part of the 50A from the RV hookup goes to cooling the battery, adding another 1.5-2.0 hours to his reading or poolside enjoyment.

The other problem is that the motor and power electronics aren't liquid cooled.

 

[mwalsh]

Hey! Let's have Nissan give us all Teslas! :?

I give up. It's like herding cats.

 

[Herm]

oops!

 

[mwalsh]

Sooo cute! Well that makes my day, if nothing else will.

 

[jspearman]

Hey! Let's have Nissan give us all Teslas! :?

I give up. It's like herding cats.

Here's my very serious and final assessment about what Nissan should do.

After the meeting with other Phoenix owners last night, my own opinion is that Nissan should offer a no-questions-asked buyback for Phoenix owners. This may have been an unforeseen problem on their part, but now they need to acknowledge the problem (in a more serious way than Perry's "5 cars" statement), implement liquid thermal management on all batteries going forward, and pull all cars from Tucson and Phoenix Nissan dealers immediately. It is absolutely unethical for Nissan to sell the Leaf here in Phoenix at this point in time, unless they are clearly warning every buyer that they will likely lose 15-30% of their capacity in the first 10-16 months.

Chevy did the right thing in offering a buyback on the Volt, even though the fears were largely unwarranted, and Nissan has an obligation to do the same in a situation that is now well-documented by its own drivers.

 

[hill]

Hey! Let's have Nissan give us all Teslas! :?

I give up. It's like herding cats.

Here's my very serious and final assessment about what Nissan should do.

After the meeting with other Phoenix owners last night, my own opinion is that Nissan should offer a no-questions-asked buyback for Phoenix owners. This may have been an unforeseen problem on their part, but now they need to acknowledge the problem (in a more serious way than Perry's "5 cars" statement), implement liquid thermal management on all batteries going forward, and pull all cars from Tucson and Phoenix Nissan dealers immediately. It is absolutely unethical for Nissan to sell the Leaf here in Phoenix at this point in time, unless they are clearly warning every buyer that they will likely lose 15-30% of their capacity in the first 10-16 months.

Chevy did the right thing in offering a buyback on the Volt, even though the fears were largely unwarranted, and Nissan has an obligation to do the same in a situation that is now well-documented by its own drivers.

Well that is EXACTLY what GM is doing right now. Buy a Volt, and if you're unhappy with it for any reason, you get your money back as long as there are no more than so many thousands of miles. The campaign was so successful when Volts were having issues with fires - that the program's back - & not just for Volts. I hope Nissan's just as willing to step up to the plate.

.

 

[Train]

my own opinion is that Nissan should offer a no-questions-asked buyback for Phoenix owners.

I think that would be a reasonable response.

 

[ecoobsessive]

the "slippery slope" argument is very relevant because I'm going to want whatever Phoenix gets.

I would be happy if Nissan converted my purchase into the lease. I would be happy to "step up" to the 2014 if it had a fix. But I want a fair price for my car. Nissan had expected everyone to lease anyway.

 

[Herm]

Note that this is still within the topic.

Lets say Nissan converts all 400 Arizona Leafs to leases, then in a couple of year these 400 cars could be resold used in temperate weather places such as Seattle for about $12k, would you buy one with a range of 50 miles and good for perhaps 7 years?.. by then replacement batteries should be cheap.

 

[LEAFer]

Note that this is still within the topic.

Lets say Nissan converts all 400 Arizona Leafs to leases, then in a couple of year these 400 cars could be resold used in temperate weather places such as Seattle for about $12k, would you buy one with a range of 50 miles and good for perhaps 7 years?.. by then replacement batteries should be cheap.

Nissan should "assign" these (buy-back or off-lease) cars to Nissan employees. Especially the "higher-ups".

(Kind of eat-your-own-dog-food or must-buy-some-company stock.)

 

[jspearman]

Note that this is still within the topic.

Lets say Nissan converts all 400 Arizona Leafs to leases, then in a couple of year these 400 cars could be resold used in temperate weather places such as Seattle for about $12k, would you buy one with a range of 50 miles and good for perhaps 7 years?.. by then replacement batteries should be cheap.

Nissan should "assign" these (buy-back or off-lease) cars to Nissan employees. Especially the "higher-ups".

(Kind of eat-your-own-dog-food or must-buy-some-company stock.)

I like this idea. Nissan spreads out these cars to all the dealers in hot areas, and the salespeople use them as their demonstration car. Nissan gets built-in beta testers and have daily access for testing.

 

[QueenBee]

Note that this is still within the topic.

Lets say Nissan converts all 400 Arizona Leafs to leases, then in a couple of year these 400 cars could be resold used in temperate weather places such as Seattle for about $12k, would you buy one with a range of 50 miles and good for perhaps 7 years?.. by then replacement batteries should be cheap.

Obviously would depend on what the cost of cars with less capacity loss are selling for. Consider that I can buy my 2011 leased SL for about $16,000 after the 39 months is up. Until recently I wasn't too pleased that I leased but I'm again very very glad that I did. I seriously feel for those that didn't.

 

[surfingslovak]

Nissan should "assign" these (buy-back or off-lease) cars to Nissan employees. Especially the "higher-ups".

(Kind of eat-your-own-dog-food or must-buy-some-company stock.)

I like this idea. Nissan spreads out these cars to all the dealers in hot areas, and the salespeople use them as their demonstration car. Nissan gets built-in beta testers and have daily access for testing.

As it happens, it looks like I've been a beta-tester of sorts for another car manufacturer. The main battery pack in my second EV has been replaced twice in the last two months, and the secondary packs are now new too. These batteries were installed in cars technicians and employees are driving to facilitate further testing.

 

[Stoaty]

As it happens, it looks like I've been a beta-tester of sorts for another car manufacturer. The main battery pack in my second EV has been replaced twice in the last two months, and the secondary packs are now new too. These batteries were installed in cars technicians and employees are driving to facilitate further testing.

That certainly puts the Leaf in Phoenix in a more positive light--it lasts up to 2 years before battery pack replacement is needed. On the other hand, I bet it didn't cost you a nickel extra when they did the replacement.

 

[GRA]

Nissan should "assign" these (buy-back or off-lease) cars to Nissan employees. Especially the "higher-ups".

(Kind of eat-your-own-dog-food or must-buy-some-company stock.)

I like this idea. Nissan spreads out these cars to all the dealers in hot areas, and the salespeople use them as their demonstration car. Nissan gets built-in beta testers and have daily access for testing.

As it happens, it looks like I've been a beta-tester of sorts for another car manufacturer. The main battery pack in my second EV has been replaced twice in the last two months, and the secondary packs are now new too. These batteries were installed in cars technicians and employees are driving to facilitate further testing.

You're driving an Active-E now, right?

 

[scottf200]

As it happens, it looks like I've been a beta-tester of sorts for another car manufacturer. The main battery pack in my second EV has been replaced twice in the last two months, and the secondary packs are now new too. These batteries were installed in cars technicians and employees are driving to facilitate further testing.

You're driving an Active-E now, right?

Volt http://gm-volt.com/forum/member.php?9854-surfingslovak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[OrientExpress]

Now here is a Feces-fire

One guy who lives in the desert that has driven his car a little bit more that once around the world in 13 months, and it still runs fine except he has to "fill-up" more often, and 30+ other desert dwellers that also have to fill-up more often than when their car was new is not.

 

[surfingslovak]

Volt http://gm-volt.com/forum/member.php?9854-surfingslovak" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scott, I had a Volt on order when I signed up, but I didn't go through with the purchase. I fixed my profile to reflect that. I apologize for the confusion.