Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[scottf200]

However, the empirical data suggests that, if anything, it's much more likely that the Volt will get more electric miles than a Leaf..

There is no range anxiety with a Volt, just drive it and then it switches into the hybrid mode.. in the Leaf you worry about it and keep an eye on the GOM etc. Not a big deal when the Volt depletes the battery.

I think he was suggesting the Volt may be driving more days per year so even tho it may be driving less EV miles per day that in the end it will have more EV miles total. ie. LEAF owners my drive their ICE on some percentage of days of the year and then would get 0 EV miles that day while the Volt continues to accumulate EV miles in those days as a wide spread of EV miles (ie. 0 vs 30).

 

[RegGuheert]

I think he was suggesting the Volt may be driving more days per year so even tho it may be driving less EV miles per day that in the end it will have more EV miles total. ie. LEAF owners my drive their ICE on some percentage of days of the year and then would get 0 EV miles that day while the Volt continues to accumulate EV miles in those days as a wide spread of EV miles (ie. 0 vs 30).

It's a good point and I will give an example where this has applied here:

The airport is 48 miles from here, mostly at 55 MPH with about 15 miles at 65 MPH and a 600-ft mountain in between. It's far enough that I'm pretty sure I cannot make the full trip in the LEAF without recharging. I was aware they had recently installed 8 new charging stations in the garage where I normally park in a very preferential location, right beside the handicapped spots. But I had never actually SEEN these spots and I was worried that these spots might be full, or worse, ICEd. In the end I took a 20-MPG minivan to the airport because our hybrid was not available. When I arrived at the airport, I saw that there were three Chevy Volts charging and five slots were available. It would have been no problem to bring the LEAF.

But the point here is that if we had bought a Volt instead I would have had NO reason to pause, since the availability of the spots would not have mattered. I would have driven over 80 EV miles to and from the airport instead of 0 on that trip.

OTOH, the LEAF has one more seat than a Volt. There are trips, like the one my wife will take today, which would result in the Volt being left home because four seats are not enough. That may not apply in many households, but it does here.

 

[TonyWilliams]

and a 600-ft mountain in between.

I guess everything is relative, but that's funny. I guess I live on a 580 ft "mountain", but it never felt like anything bigger than a speed bump... unless I'm in Turtle mode.

:mrgreen:

 

[RegGuheert]

and a 600-ft mountain in between.

I guess everything is relative, but that's funny. I guess I live on a 580 ft "mountain", but it never felt like anything bigger than a speed bump... unless I'm in Turtle mode.

:mrgreen:

Yes, we get that a lot from people in CA!

"Blue Ridge speed bump, West Virginia, ..." just wouldn't have the same ring in the old John Denver song...

 

[surfingslovak]

It may be hard to imagine, but the Chevrolet Volt range-extended electric car is about to enter its third model year. The new 2013 Chevrolet Volt will offer a slightly higher all-electric range, up from 35 to 38 miles. Its base price of $39,995 will not change. Next year's Volt will also receive a higher EPA efficiency rating, from 94 to 98 MPGe, or Miles Per Gallon Equivalent--a measure of how far the vehicle can travel on electricity with the energy content of 1 gallon of gasoline.

The 2013 Volt will be fitted with a battery pack that holds slightly more energy--up from 16 to 16.5 kilowatt-hours--and the car can draw on 10.8 kWh of that total, rather than the 10.3 kWh available in 2011 and 2012 models. The changes come courtesy of a slightly altered chemistry in the lithium-ion cells provided by LG Chem.

The revised cells have a slightly different composition of materials in their manganese-spinel chemistry, though neither company provided specific details of the changes. GM compared the changes to adjusting the proportions of sugar and vanilla for better flavor while baking a cake. With more energy capable of being drawn from the battery, recharging time for a full.

http://hgm.me/volt2013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[mkjayakumar]

The most famous anti-EV blogger, John Peterson took a dig at this stating that in 3 years, all they could muster is just 3 miles or 3% as he put it. That to him is evidence that progress in battery technology is very hard and will be slow, that EVs won't be a player for decades to come. This was all in a context on a blog he wrote predicting Tesla Motors to go belly up in a year or two.

 

[surfingslovak]

The most famous anti-EV blogger, John Peterson took a dig at this stating that in 3 years, all they could muster is just 3 miles or 3% as he put it. That to him is evidence that progress in battery technology is very hard and will be slow, that EVs won't be a player for decades to come. This was all in a context on a blog he wrote predicting Tesla Motors to go belly up in a year or two.

I have hardly ever seen someone as negative as John Peterson, and I think he is going way overboard with both his predictions and his attitude. I don't wan't to go off on a tangent, but this happens often. Whenever you have something new and disruptive, you will get some folks, who would like to hang to the status quo and will puh-puh everything that does not fit the tried and true metaphor.

Sometimes they are right. Most of the time they are not. Progress is inevitable. The Postal Service is now competing with email and instant messaging and suffering greatly in the process. The magnitude of this change was difficult to predict just ten years ago. Traditional gas cars will have to contend with EVs and sophisticated hybrids. It's also a generational shift, and reportedly many future buyers are looking for alternatives to traditional cars. We'll see how all this will pan out, and I very much hope that Peterson will be proven wrong.

That said, the Volt getting marginally more battery capacity is an expression of how the car industry works, and not necessarily the lack of progress in the battery field. If you had a new and groundbreaking technology today, it might take several years until you saw it in the field. I believe that most vehicles, the Leaf and the Volt included, have about 5 year development horizon. Reportedly, the Volt program was initiated in 2006, and market introduction wasn't until 2010.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

EV's "not being a player for decades to come" is predicated on gas staying cheap and readily available. All these opinions and predictions are based on the status quo, which by no means looks like a given to me.

 

[garsh]

EV's "not being a player for decades to come" is predicated on gas staying cheap and readily available. All these opinions and predictions are based on the status quo, which by no means looks like a given to me.

I keep thinking that too, but then gas prices keeping coming back down to reasonable levels.

 

[DrInnovation]

To be clear the electric motor is ALWAYS on!! You must have meant driving using battery only vs ICE generated electricity.

Typically driving around town (stop and go) or on a reasonably flat highway the ICE will turn off and on and you will drive on electricity. It does not count these (regen generated energy) toward EV miles but total gas miles. I drove the car from NY to IL and the ICE turned on fairly regularly. There was rolling hills on that trip and a fair amount of flat driving. The ICE runs at WOT (not max RPM but WOT) for efficiency.

When I was driving using the EV battery, the miles left was next to a green battery; when it was depleted, the gas pump took it's place. The green battery meter never came on again until I got to destination and turned the engine off and at that point the green battery meter came on indicating that the battery had been recharged to ~11 miles or ~ 25%. My point is that I would have liked to used those 11 EV miles regenerated rather then have it at my destination where I don't need it; is there a way to force it's use?

11miles is a lot of regen, but also just about exactly what one would expect if you accidentally hit mountain-mode. Where you playing with sport/normal modes?

But if the last bit of your trip was down hill enough you could get 11miles. In general the car will try to use them up and shut down the ICE.. I get it all the time since I live in CO foothills. On trips back from denver I crest monument hill and go down 500ft to my house.. usually have 1-2 mile EV. 11 miles of EV is about 2-3kw of regen (it reads high-miles if you just did a lot of regen saying how far you could go if you kept driving like that). so probably 1800ft of elevation is needed for that much.

 

[DrInnovation]

I have a hard time believing that more than a very small fraction would actually use it for that reason... It just takes too much planning and forethought.

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important.

While I agree that few Americans will be thinking about CO/NOX and VOC's in urban areas, I do think many will use hold mode to save battery for city driving. But the reason are very American: Money & Pleasure!.

If you must use gas, using it on the highway is far better. It gets 40mpg on the highway and with the inherent road/wind you don't even hear the ICE. Using gas in the city you only get 35mpg and can hear the ICE a bit more. So I ALWAYS use MM when I'm heading to denver and save some battery for the city.

 

[GRA]

I have a hard time believing that more than a very small fraction would actually use it for that reason... It just takes too much planning and forethought.

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important.

While I agree that few Americans will be thinking about CO/NOX and VOC's in urban areas, I do think many will use hold mode to save battery for city driving. But the reason are very American: Money & Pleasure!.

If you must use gas, using it on the highway is far better. It gets 40mpg on the highway and with the inherent road/wind you don't even hear the ICE. Using gas in the city you only get 35mpg and can hear the ICE a bit more. So I ALWAYS use MM when I'm heading to denver and save some battery for the city.

Uh huh. The behavior you mention above is one of the reasons I feel ambivalence about allowing PHEVs and BEVs to get single-occupant HOV stickers in California. While I realize that it's being used as an incentive to boost sales, those cars would make their greatest contribution to reducing pollution while in stop and go freeway traffic. At least the HOV perk will expire.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

2013 Chevrolet Volt Boosts EV Range to 38 Miles
Battery storage capacity increase and cell chemistry changes enable improved range

http://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2012/Jun/0607_volt.html

 

[TomT]

I agree. Since Hybrids get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, it actually never made any sense to allow them in the car pool lane from that perspective. And, unfortunately, as happened with the original yellow stickers, the green stickers will almost invariably be extended come 2015... I would have, at least, specified a minimum EPA EV-only range of, say, 35 miles to qualify for the green stickers...

Uh huh. The behavior you mention above is one of the reasons I'm feel ambivalence about allowing PHEVs and BEVs to get single-occupant HOV stickers in California. While I realize that it's being used as an incentive to boost sales, those cars would make their greatest contribution to reducing pollution while in stop and go freeway traffic. At least the HOV perk will expire.

 

[cwerdna]

I agree. Since Hybrids get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, it actually never made any sense to allow them in the car pool lane from that perspective.

Uhh... as an owner of an 06 Prius since January 06, that's not really true. They tend to do better on the EPA city test than the highway test, but that doesn't mean that's how it pans out in the real world.

Many/most owners of hybrids that qualified for the yellow stickers will tell you the same thing.

 

[TomT]

I'll take your word for it but both of the hybrid owners I know claim their mileage is better in the city and stop and go than on the highway at faster speeds... I also wonder what the relative level of emissions are under both conditions...

I agree. Since Hybrids get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, it actually never made any sense to allow them in the car pool lane from that perspective.

Uhh... as an owner of an 06 Prius since January 06, that's not really true. They tend to do better on the EPA city test than the highway test, but that doesn't mean that's how it pans out in the real world. Many/most owners of hybrids that qualified for the yellow stickers will tell you the same thing.

 

[DrInnovation]

I agree. Since Hybrids get better mileage in city driving than highway driving, it actually never made any sense to allow them in the car pool lane from that perspective. And, unfortunately, as happened with the original yellow stickers, the green stickers will almost invariably be extended come 2015... I would have, at least, specified a minimum EPA EV-only range of, say, 35 miles to qualify for the green stickers...

Uh huh. The behavior you mention above is one of the reasons I'm feel ambivalence about allowing PHEVs and BEVs to get single-occupant HOV stickers in California. While I realize that it's being used as an incentive to boost sales, those cars would make their greatest contribution to reducing pollution while in stop and go freeway traffic. At least the HOV perk will expire.

I never understood how the PiP qualified since its unlikely it will ever be in EV at highway speeds, of if it is the driver will be slowing down traffic.


I guess it depends on the HOV lane goals.. encouraging higher MPG or reducing the number of cars. If its the former, it would be more interesting to define its goal as a maximum gallon per 1000 passenger miles, say expected G/PKM of, so 1 person in a BEV (or maybe volt if average distance in HOV lanes < 70), 2 people in a Prius/PiP, 3 in 35mph sedan, 4 people in 25MPG SUV..

 

[cwerdna]

I never understood how the PiP qualified since its unlikely it will ever be in EV at highway speeds, of if it is the driver will be slowing down traffic.

I guess it depends on the HOV lane goals.. encouraging higher MPG or reducing the number of cars. If its the former, it would be more interesting to define its goal as a maximum gallon per 1000 passenger miles, say expected G/PKM of, so 1 person in a BEV (or maybe volt if average distance in HOV lanes < 70), 2 people in a Prius/PiP, 3 in 35mph sedan, 4 people in 25MPG SUV..

I can't speak to CA's HOV incentive goals off the top of my head, aside from encouraging actual carpooling to reduce # of cars (which stickers don't help with), it seems like these are also goals:
- encouraging the people to buy vehicles that produce fewer GHG (tied to the fuel economy requirements, since CO2 emissions are directly proportional to the amount of a given fuel burned)
- reducing pollutants other than CO2 (e.g. NOx, carcinogens, smog forming compounds, etc. see http://web.archive.org/web/20110212085218/http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Aboutratings.do#aboutairpollution" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

Both of the above also appear to by why there's both a FE requirement and later AT-PZEV requirement (see http://web.archive.org/web/20060203152614/http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Better FE ---> less CO2 emitted.

PZEV --- > fewer harmful pollutants (http://web.archive.org/web/20110213212304/http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/detailedchart.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. EPA didn't even classify CO2 as a pollutant until a few years ago.

Most of the monstrosity class (full-sized) SUVs (e.g. Tahoes, Suburbans, Escalades, etc.) I see running around are usually driven solo or w/minimal cargo and passengers. It's very rare to see one with 4 people in it, let alone 4 that are of driving age. Those beasts don't achieve 20 mpg combined on the EPA test. They're more like 15-17 mpg combined.

Unfortunately, http://www.epa.gov/greenvehicles/Index.do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; is busted, but I don't recall any monstrosity class ones that score a 9/10 on the EPA smog/air pollution score, which would give it a PZEV rating.

 

[scottf200]

Back to the Volt...

Insider: 1.4L Engine Discontinued in 2014 Chevrolet Volt by Jay Cole (Statik) 11Jun2012
http://insideevs.com/insider-1-4l-engine-discontinued-in-chevrolet-volt-for-next-year/

All we had known for sure about the future of the Chevrolet Volt was that it will be undergoing a powertrain upgrade in about a year’s time. That is until now. A source inside the company (who did not wish to be identified) confirmed to InsideEVs that the 83 hp, 1.4L engine that is currently in use as an extended range generator for the Volt will “definitely not” be in the 2014 model year that begins production in the summer of 2013.

It is thought that the 1.4L engine found in the Volt today was never the first choice of engineers who were designing the car, but was mated to the platform strictly out of the availability of the engine. When debuting the concept Volt, GM had envisioned a specially designed engine to optimize performance for the Volt, but had to abandon any such plan because of a freeze on all research and development in the period where GM was entering bankruptcy, and the Volt was in development.

When asked about what the replacement engine might be, it was said that apparently a new 2.0L turbo has been thoroughly vetted on the platform, and will most likely see its way into production of the Volt (and upcoming Cadillac ELR). This is the same engine that GM has recently confirmed will also find a home in the Chevy Cruze Deluxe Buick Verano, a car which incidently rides on the same Delta II platfrom as the Volt. The output of the 2.0L turbo currently ranges from 220hp to 270hp.[current electric drive unit (149 hp/273 lb.-ft. of torque) ]

The New 2.0L Turbo for 2014 Volt and Cadillac ELR?

Ecotec 2.0L Turbo: One of the “10 Best Engines” Award by WardsAuto World
Google search on it: https://www.google.com/search?&q=Ecotec+2.0L+Turbo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[update]
a) The reason I thought this was good was because I "assumed" it would also some with a more powerful electric motor and generator (motor). Since I don't use the ICE a lot this is what I would like about it. They need this aspect for the ELR right?

b) Wouldn't this then also mean there is no silly "mountain mode". That was added because the current configuration could not keep up.

I would guess there may be two voltec platform options on the Volt. Standard and Performance.
[/update]

 

[RegGuheert]

Insider: 1.4L Engine Discontinued in 2014 Chevrolet Volt by Jay Cole (Statik) 11Jun2012

I would guess there may be two voltec platform options on the Volt. Standard and Performance.

If that's so, then why discontinue the 1.4?

Adding a turbocharger now...it seems clear GM is intent on selling the most complicated passenger vehicle EVER!

I'm not convinced a larger engine is a good move for the Volt. :?: