Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[LKK]

In case there was any question who the big dog is in practicality and durability:

http://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-volt-travels-300000th-mile/

Although you've got to figure that a high mileage HEV or a TDI would probably cost him less. Unlike most people his operating expenses make up a major part of his total costs. CR did a cost comparo a few years back intheir review of the Volt, showing at what range the Volt was cheaper, and beyond what range a Prius was. ISTR CR calculated it with regular gas at $3.60 or $3.80 at the time, and premium $0.20/gal. more. Anyway, from vague memory the cross-over point was somewhere between 60 and 80 miles. With cheaper gas it would be shorter.

OTOH, this guy works for GM, so chances are he was pretty much limited to one of their products. I suspect vandalism damage to a foreign make while parked at work would outweigh the fuel cost savings.

He also gets to charge st work. Wonder if he's going to trade his Volt for a Bolt.

 

[edatoakrun]

In case there was any question who the big dog is in practicality and durability:

http://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-volt-travels-300000th-mile/

I believe many Prius hybrid drivers report near or even above the ~59 mpg this Volt achieved.

So it looks to me like the ~30,000 kWh this Volt took from the grid over those ~300k miles was near a total waste, as was the additional expense and environmental cost imposed by the Volt's short-range ~16 kWh battery pack.

BTW, the < 5,000 gallons of premium gas consumed over the same ~300k miles, means < 6,500 million gallons of CO2 was spewed out of the tailpipe.

Not something I'd consider worth bragging about...

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I believe many Prius hybrid drivers report near or even above the ~59 mpg this Volt achieved.

Maybe 40mph downhill with a tailwind. I've never gotten that kind of MPG out of a prius. Oh sure, go ahead and tell me it's because I don't know how to drive one properly.

So it looks to me like the ~30,000 kWh this Volt took from the grid over those ~300k miles was near a total waste, as was the additional expense and environmental cost imposed by the Volt's short-range ~16 kWh battery pack.

BTW, the < 5,000 gallons of premium gas consumed over the same ~300k miles, means < 6,500 million gallons of CO2 was spewed out of the tailpipe.

Not something I'd consider worth bragging about...

If we really wanted to keep everything stuck in the past he should have selected a Tahoe. That's what most people do.

 

[redLEAF]

Was trying to figure the best thread for this one but because its specific to the first gen Volt decided to put it here ... thought winters were cold by you, think again; brrrr

http://www.fleetcarma.com/volt-cold-arctic-climate/

This statement was a bit scary ... must have been parked outside; I'm surprised it didn't damage the battery; seem to recall that ICE engines used a crankcase heater (you would see 120V receptacles on studs sticking out of the ground to connect to them) but other than battery management system to prevent freezing/damage; like my '12 LEAF, the Volt didn't have one?

On the coldest of mornings, when temperatures dropped below -40°C, the AEA sometimes discovered that the battery was too cold to be used, despite the Volt still being plugged into its 240V charger.

 

[GRA]

Was trying to figure the best thread for this one but because its specific to the first gen Volt decided to put it here ... thought winters were cold by you, think again; brrrr

http://www.fleetcarma.com/volt-cold-arctic-climate/

This statement was a bit scary ... must have been parked outside; I'm surprised it didn't damage the battery; seem to recall that ICE engines used a crankcase heater (you would see 120V receptacles on studs sticking out of the ground to connect to them) but other than battery management system to prevent freezing/damage; like my '12 LEAF, the Volt didn't have one?

On the coldest of mornings, when temperatures dropped below -40°C, the AEA sometimes discovered that the battery was too cold to be used, despite the Volt still being plugged into its 240V charger. [/b

Thanks for the link. IIRR, BEVs, PHEVs and FCEVs are usually required to work down to at least -30C, with some able to go lower, and survive considerably beyond that. Here's what it says in the 2014 LEAF manual:

Operating temperature --31 - 113 deg. F (--35 - 45C)
Storage temperature --40 - 176 deg. F (--35 - 80C)

I couldn't find the same info in the Volt manual, although I'm pretty sure I've seen it somewhere. It does say this:

It is recommended that the vehicle be plugged in when temperatures are below 0°C (32°F)
and above 32°C (90°F) to maximize high voltage battery life.

I'm not sure why the battery heater didn't operate, as it certainly should have if the car was plugged in at that temp, and shouldn't have needed to be unplugged and replugged. Maybe a glitch in the individual car rather than inherent to the breed, but without a diagnostic it's impossible to say. OTOH, maybe it sat long enough that it went into sleep mode, and that would explain why unplugging and re-plugging was necessary - see this discussion with a Volt engineer: http://gm-volt.com/2009/01/05/chevy-volt-battery-temperature-control/

Even so, the engine should have been able to start and warm things up. I'd think that using the remote cabin heating would have also fired up the battery heating circuit, but the article doesn't make it clear whether they did this.

 

[GRA]

Via IEVS:

Zero Chevrolet Volt Batteries Replaced So Far Due To “General Capacity Degradation”

http://insideevs.com/zero-first-generation-chevrolet-volt-battery-packs-replaced-due-general-capacity-degradation/

A big shout out for the GM engineers and/or management who opted for an active, liquid-cooled TMS along with allowing a conservative usable SoC range for the Gen 1 Volt. As my old sig said, "When nurturing a new technology, under-promise and over-deliver rather than the opposite." Kudos to GM for doing it that way.

 

[paulgipe]

GRA,

Would have to agree with you. We just bought a used 2013 Volt. We've charged it three times so far and have gotten the full range advertised: 38, 43, 38. That's with 36,000 on the odometer and clear sun damage on the steering wheel indicating it was used in inland part of southern California.

We are happy with our Leaf, but we have lost 10% capacity (2 kWh) in two years.

Paul

 

[jjeff]

GRA,

Would have to agree with you. We just bought a used 2013 Volt. We've charged it three times so far and have gotten the full range advertised: 38, 43, 38. That's with 36,000 on the odometer and clear sun damage on the steering wheel indicating it was used in inland part of southern California.

We are happy with our Leaf, but we have lost 10% capacity (2 kWh) in two years.

Paul

Paul, my brother is looking for some sort of EV and I think a used Volt may be his best bet. He likes my Leafs but I'm not so confident he'll remember to plug it in when he needs to and he's not all that organized/well planned and I just don't think the Leaf would be a good fit. That and he occasionally needs to make a 90 mile trip on mostly back roads and no public chargers. I know Leafs pretty well and due to improvements I'd really only be interested in '13 and on with Leafs, did the Volt have a year where things were updated/improved from their introduction like Leaf did?
I see you bought a '13 Volt and for what he has to spend($12-14k max) I'm thinking a '12-'14 Volt will probably be in his price range. Are you still liking yours? It sounds like getting a Volt from a hot climate may not be as big of a deal as with the Leaf? My '12 Leaf came from L.A. and sure does have reduced range, much worse than my Northern '13 Leaf. Do all Volts have the same charger or do they sell models with a double speed charger like the Leaf?
It looks like locally for '12s or '13s they start ~$12k with anywhere from 30-60k miles on the clock. A similar Leaf would be $4k less but again while I really like my Leaf I don't think it would be a good fit for him.

 

[paulgipe]

Yes, we're still pleased with the Volt. See my web site under EVs for my reviews of the Volt. I have no problem recommending a used Volt.

Comes only with J1772 receptacle. No fast charge capability.

Paul
www.wind-works.org

 

[jjeff]

Yes, we're still pleased with the Volt. See my web site under EVs for my reviews of the Volt. I have no problem recommending a used Volt.

Comes only with J1772 receptacle. No fast charge capability.

Paul
http://www.wind-works.org

Your review answered most of my questions and I have to say I TOTALLY agree with your "issues" with the Volt, they are the exact same things that pushed me towards the Leaf and forgo the Volt years back, even though I really really wanted the Volt to work for me. CRAMPED interior is #1 on my negative list, I just hate the "cockpit" feel, maybe as a youth when I drove a X-19 but not in my later life, heck I'd be OK with bench seats, remember bench seats? I loved those. Feeling crammed into a car is NOT my feeling of comfort, no iffs ands or butts
Personally the QC port isn't a big thing for me but the measly 3.3kw charger is, what were they thinking :roll: Of course only being a 4 passenger car was another killer for me, with 4 people in our family we need at least room for one more, even if cramped, yes I realize this has now been corrected but not when I was looking, again what were they thinking :roll:

So other than the most recent(2016??) revision of the Volt are you saying not much really changed from 2011-2015? If so I guess we should count our blessings with the Leaf that got(IMO) a nice upgrade after only 3 years(2013) which worked out many of the "quirks" and omissions of the initial production run.

I hope the Volt works for my brother and he's OK with it's cockpit(cramped) interior.......guess I'll know the first time he sits in one

 

[paulgipe]

Glad you found that useful and were able to navigate there. I read this site on my phone most often and so it's difficult to respond with links and much detail.

There's a GM Volt news group at http://gm-volt.com/forum/forum.php. I found it helpful.

To my understanding there were no major changes until 2016 and even the 2016 doesn't address some of our issues.

Two good friends--and they're very sharp guys as to technology--have Volts and they're happy with it.

Yeah, as folks on this thread say the Volt could be so much more but it is what it is as is the Leaf. I just had back surgery and the Leaf is a lot easier on me than the Volt. Even so I am driving again and I am driving the Volt. . .

Paul Gipe

 

[GRA]

The upgrades were mostly minor, but welcome. 2013+ Volts got a 'Hold' mode in addition to 'Normal', 'Sport' and 'Mountain', which is important for people who want to be able to retain more AER for later, and IIRR the battery also increased from 16 to 16.5kWh total, and from 10.3 to 10.8 kWh usable, with EPA AER increasing from 35 to 38 miles. In 2015? the battery got another slight increase, to 17.1? kWH total and some small additional amount usable, but GM didn't bother to redo the AER tests as the car was only going to be in production for one year, so it was still rated at 38 miles EPA AER. AFAIR the rest was just minor cosmetic-type stuff, color combos and the like, as well as de-contenting of the base car to lower its price.

 

[jjeff]

The upgrades were mostly minor, but welcome. 2013+ Volts got a 'Hold' mode in addition to 'Normal', 'Sport' and 'Mountain', which is important for people who want to be able to retain more AER for later, and IIRR the battery also increased from 16 to 16.5kWh total, and from 10.3 to 10.8 kWh usable, with EPA AER increasing from 35 to 38 miles. In 2015? the battery got another slight increase, to 17.1? kWH tota and some small additional amount usable, but GM didn't bother to redo the AER tests, as the car was only going to be in production for one year, so it was still rated at 38 miles EPA AER. AFAIR the rest was just minor cosmetic-type stuff, color combos and the like, as well as de-contenting of the base car to lower its price.

Thanks for the tips, I'd been thinking he should limit his searches to '13 or newer, mainly because '13 made such a difference for the Leaf(although I know that really means nothing on the Volt) but I'm glad it sounds like '13+ gained a few things on the Volt also
I hope my brother isn't too put off by the "cockpit" design, I'm not going to mention it and let him come to his own conclusions

 

[GRA]

Thanks for the tips, I'd been thinking he should limit his searches to '13 or newer, mainly because '13 made such a difference for the Leaf(although I know that really means nothing on the Volt) but I'm glad it sounds like '13+ gained a few things on the Volt also
I hope my brother isn't too put off by the "cockpit" design, I'm not going to mention it and let him come to his own conclusions

Hold mode is very valuable for some, of zero importance for others. Just depends on how you use the car - for me, it would be really valuable, as I would use it routinely for freeway/highway cruising on the way to Yosemite or Tahoe, but then switch to battery for slow speed zero-emission driving once there. People with longer commutes involving lots of freeway may also want to maximize efficiency and minimize emissions by using it as above. Some other cars are now offering 'EV Auto' modes, which switch between battery and ICE depending on speed, which accomplishes much the same thing with less hassle (but also less control, unless they also offer a 'Hold' mode).

OTOH, for someone whose commute/routine driving is short enough that they'll never exceed the AER during it and who can't be bothered to switch modes to maximize efficiency/reduce emissions, 'Hold' mode isn't that valuable, and it may make sense to opt for a 2011-2012 instead to save money.

 

[LKK]

2011-2012 Volt owners get around the missing Hold Mode by using Mountain Mode (MM) which is in all Volts. MM raised the minimum SOC by about 30%. If selected before the battery depleats, the car goes on to the ICE with about 14 miles of charge still remaining. The extra charge is useful for climbing steep mountains.

One good thing about MM is you can select it even when the battery is depleted. In that case the ICE roars to life and operates the generator pretty close to its 55 KW max rating to provide power for propulsion and to recharge the battery to the MM SOC. This is useful if you are on the highway with a depleated battery but want to go all electric when you exit. Just select MM 10-15 minutes before exiting the highway and you will have about 14 miles of charge to drive around town.

 

[GRA]

2011-2012 Volt owners get around the missing Hold Mode by using Mountain Mode (MM) which is in all Volts. MM raised the minimum SOC by about 30%. If selected before the battery depleats, the car goes on to the ICE with about 14 miles of charge still remaining. The extra charge is useful for climbing steep mountains.

One good thing about MM is you can select it even when the battery is depleted. In that case the ICE roars to life and operates the generator pretty close to its 55 KW max rating to provide power for propulsion and to recharge the battery to the MM SOC. This is useful if you are on the highway with a depleated battery but want to go all electric when you exit. Just select MM 10-15 minutes before exiting the highway and you will have about 14 miles of charge to drive around town.

Yep, MM is a poor man's Hold mode, although 14 miles seems a bit high. ISTR it retains something like 1.4kWh usable in the battery when selected, but my memory's hazy and maybe it was more like 3.4kWh? Certainly better than nothing, which is the biggest problem I see with the Prius Prime. Here's an early article on the use of Mountain Mode:http://www.plugincars.com/chevy-vol...ted-yields-new-driving-strategies-107176.html

And here's a discussion of Mountain vs. Hold mode on gm-volt.com:http://gm-volt.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-16998.html

 

[LeftieBiker]

Certainly better than nothing, which is the biggest problem I see with the Prius Prime.

I assume that the Prime won't save charge for later use, then? With the earlier PIP, switching to EV Mode while braking longer distances, then switching back to Hybrid mode as you stop, will accumulate EV range after it's all been used. I picked up about 2.5 miles of EV range on a less than 20 mile drive home last week, in cold temps. That's a 20-25% recharge of EV range for the PIP.

 

[GRA]

Certainly better than nothing, which is the biggest problem I see with the Prius Prime.

I assume that the Prime won't save charge for later use, then? With the earlier PIP, switching to EV Mode while braking longer distances, then switching back to Hybrid mode as you stop, will accumulate EV range after it's all been used. I picked up about 2.5 miles of EV range on a less than 20 mile drive home last week, in cold temps. That's a 20-25% recharge of EV range for the PIP.

It will up to a point, but as I read it it's not a true 'Hold' mode. Here's C&D's description:

About those modes: The Prime will default to EV mode when it starts if the battery’s state of charge (SOC) is sufficient to allow electric driving. Hybrid mode is what it defaults to after the SOC drops below a certain threshold, or it can be selected at startup to reserve the electric power for later use, employing a (small) portion of battery capacity for hybrid driving. And then there’s the EV Auto mode. Engage it after startup and this mode judiciously juggles power sources to maximize efficiency, so long as there is enough juice in the battery to allow electric driving.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-toyota-prius-prime-plug-in-hybrid-drive-review

ABG's:

The Prime offers six different "modes," but they're really grouped in two sets of three, and each set can be toggled through independently of the other. On the one side, there's EV, HV, and EV Auto. On the other, there's Eco, Normal, and Power. EV Mode is the setting you want in order to prioritize electric driving, and you have to either go over 84 miles per hour or really stomp on the pedal to get the gas engine to come on. HV mode tells the Prime to pretty much operate like a normal Prius, drawing power from the gas engine and battery pack as needed, while EV Auto mode switches between EV and HV mode automatically. The good news is that EV is the default (as it should be), and I can't really think of a reason why you wouldn't just keep it in EV mode all of the time.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/10/03/2017-toyota-prius-prime-first-drive-1-review/

 

[LeftieBiker]

That sounds to me like you can reserve at least most of the EV range for later use, just by selecting "Hybrid" mode. The PIP is the same, except it lacks the "Ev Auto" mode.