DrInnovation said:
No the ICE does not fully charge the battery. Burning gas to charge the battery is what non-plugin hybrids do and is not what the Volt is/does. It provide just enough to propel the car with a tiny buffer for small hills, merging, etc.eHelmholtz said:
When the Volt's battery is depleted, it is/does the exact same as a non-plugin hybrid is/does (ignoring architectural differences between the Volt and other hybrids). Only difference is that it has a larger window of SOC capacity and higher power battery/motors with which to meet it's goals of minimizing fuel consumption. Charging the battery with gas engine is counter-productive to this goal.scottf200 said:
In the Volt the actually SOC where the ICE comes on is ~22% and may go up to ~24-25% for the tiny window. I'm sure the typical non-plugin hybrid goes up a lot more than that 2-3%.drees said:
You're right, that part of my comment wasn't clear. A hybrid with a 1.5 kWh battery will typically see see SOC swing between 30-70%, but that's only about 0.6 kWh total to work with (and will typically stay within a much smaller range than that). How low will the Volt let it's SOC get before reducing propulsion? 0.6 kWh is about 4% of the Volt's total capacity, so at a minimum, I'd guess that it lets the SOC get down to 20% before it thinks about reducing propulsion, but regardless - the larger pack will allow much more regenerative braking and is capable of delivering significantly more power - but aside from that capability functions exactly the same as a regular hybrid in terms of setting min/max battery SOC limits and neither will burn gas to charge the battery just for the sake of charging it.scottf200 said:
You are overlooking the basic point here. In a non-plugin hybrid, all of the energy ever put into the battery comes from the engine. It seems to me our Prius "likes" to stay up around 80% of usable charge, based on the bars, and why shouldn't it? That gives more buffer to augment the ICE. But Scott is telling you that the Volt never goes over 25% (ignoring mountain mode). That would be stupid, no matter how much battery capacity you have, except that the whole idea is to use as much electricity and as little gasoline as possible. Ideally you want the Volt battery to be empty when you get home. People who think the Volt is "just another hybrid" can't seem to understand that point.drees said:
No, I'm not. I'm fully aware that a non-plugin gets all it's energy from gasoline - just like a Volt which has entered CS mode gets all it's energy from gasoline.planet4ever said:
A non-plugin hybrid (which is always in CS mode) does not burn gas to charge the battery - it behaves exactly the same as the Volt when in CS mode. Remove that sentence from that post and the rest of it is completely correct.scottf200 said:
And people here complain about the accuracy of the gauges on the LEAF - the Prius' battery SOC gauge is even worse. Do not rely on it for anything except that when the gauge reads "full" it's more likely to keep the engine off and when it's "empty" or purple it's more likely to run the engine to keep SOC from getting too low.planet4ever said:
I have never contested that the Volt would never use gas to charge the battery any more than necessary. My comments on SOC were primarily in relation to the Volt's larger battery being able to regen more energy (it can absorb more power for longer periods of time before filling up) - it has more kWh to work with before the ECU might limit EV power to avoid draining the battery to low under propulsion or charging the battery to high under regeneration.planet4ever said:
Sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you. A non-plugin hybrid is never in CS mode. It's goal is not to sustain the charge, but to maximize it, within the limits of long battery life. It wants to get you home with a full battery, so you can start out again primarily (or fully) on electric power while the engine is warming up. That is exactly the opposite of the CS goal.drees said:
I have never seen a non-plugin behave that way. A non-plugin hybrid is always in CS mode. If you doubt me - feel free to ask over on Prius Chat. Heck - look at where Wikipedia takes you if you search for charge-sustaining.planet4ever said:
Thanks - how high does SOC typically get (ignoring abnormal situations like long descents) - do you also see 24-25%? Either way, 1 kWh is more usable capacity than what your typical non-plugin has available to it - 1 kWh is closer to the total capacity of the pack than the usable capacity (which appears to be slightly more than 0.5 kWh) of a hybrid like the Prius.Rusty said:
planet4ever said:
Thanks for the update and info. Interesting point about the handling.eHelmholtz said:
When I was driving using the EV battery, the miles left was next to a green battery; when it was depleted, the gas pump took it's place. The green battery meter never came on again until I got to destination and turned the engine off and at that point the green battery meter came on indicating that the battery had been recharged to ~11 miles or ~ 25%. My point is that I would have liked to used those 11 EV miles regenerated rather then have it at my destination where I don't need it; is there a way to force it's use?scottf200 said:
Good description. Once you deplete your battery and the 'gas pump' takes it's place it never changes the display back to the battery unless you turn the car off/on. It would be odd if it keep switching back and forth and pretty confusing to the "masses" (target customer not EV technos). BUT it DOES turn the ICE off occasionally and use the battery power only. That is what I described above that happened regularly on my trip from NY to IL. It also happens frequency in stop-n-go traffic.eHelmholtz said:
Not bad! A 3% overall capacity boost and a nearly 5% increase in useable capacity in two model years!scottf200 said:
