Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

[TomT]

Moore's Law it ain't, but something is better than nothing...

Not bad! A 3% overall capacity boost and a nearly 5% increase in useable capacity in two model years!

 

[SanDust]

I ran across this presentation when looking for information about charging. http://ewh.ieee.org/r4/chicago/foxvalley/Harper_EV_Standards__Communication_Apr18_2012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; What caught my attention was slide 4, which talks about the probability of a Volt or Leaf being able to fulfill the daily driving needs of a driver using battery propulsion. Long story short, the probability that a Leaf will be driven less than or equal to its electric range on a given day is 68%. For the Volt the probability is 62%. That's not a very big difference. Maybe adding three miles means it's 63%?

The point would be that the Volt provides over 90% of the electric miles that a Leaf would, which is a surprisingly high number. I assumed it would be lower.

 

[RegGuheert]

Moore's Law it ain't, but something is better than nothing...

Might I suggest that when discussing EV battery capacity growth we refer to it as "Lesse's Law"?

 

[edatoakrun]

I ran across this presentation when looking for information about charging. http://ewh.ieee.org/r4/chicago/foxvalley/Harper_EV_Standards__Communication_Apr18_2012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; What caught my attention was slide 4, which talks about the probability of a Volt or Leaf being able to fulfill the daily driving needs of a driver using battery propulsion. Long story short, the probability that a Leaf will be driven less than or equal to its electric range on a given day is 68%. For the Volt the probability is 62%. That's not a very big difference. Maybe adding three miles means it's 63%?

The point would be that the Volt provides over 90% of the electric miles that a Leaf would...

No, it wouldn't, as I'm sure you realized, when you made this misleading statement.

The small difference in % number of trips, might result in a much larger % of miles driven.

In my case, for instance, A Volt would only provide about 30%-35% as many "electric miles" as does my LEAF, though for most drivers, with shorter average trips, the percentage would probably be 50%-75%.

And of course, the study does not consider the results of DC Fast charging, with which the LEAF would probably meet 95%-98% of all daily trip driving needs, while the Volt remains at 63%.

On a 200 mile trip (with 2 or 3 DC recharges) the LEAF is 100% electric, with a Volt (unless you are willing to wait for L2) you might get what, about 40, or 20%, "electric" miles?

Which is probably why GM seems so desperate to prevent the spread of the fast charge infrastructure in the USA.

 

[GRA]

I'm surprised that the Volt's and Leaf's percentages are so low. When GM was deciding what range to give the Volt, they had data that a 40 mile AER would cover 78% of US daily drives, and 35 miles would cover 75%. I find it hard to believe that mean daily average miles driven has gone up since then, when all stats I've seen show that they've gone down owing to the economy.

 

[Herm]

The point would be that the Volt provides over 90% of the electric miles that a Leaf would, which is a surprisingly high number. I assumed it would be lower.

It is widely known that most people drive less than 40 miles a day.. why are you surprised?.. why would they benefit from fast charging a Leaf?

A Mitsubishi iMiev with its 62 miles of range might provide the most bang for the buck for a lot of people. It is a bit confusing that people with long commutes are the ones that need electrics the most.. but gasoline cars are very inefficient in short commutes before the engine warms up.

 

[TomT]

I live the life of an outlier at 58 miles a day on average (including side trips) during the weekday...

It is widely known that most people drive less than 40 miles a day.. why are you surprised?.. why would they benefit from fast charging a Leaf?

 

[scottf200]

I'm surprised that the Volt's and Leaf's percentages are so low. When GM was deciding what range to give the Volt, they had data that a 40 mile AER would cover 78% of US daily drives, and 35 miles would cover 75%. I find it hard to believe that mean daily average miles driven has gone up since then, when all stats I've seen show that they've gone down owing to the economy.

Daily Driving Histogram for 1000 of the Volt owners here: http://www.voltstats.net/#dailyTab" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Little more range for the 2013's gives more cushion for seasonal driving (winter), spirited driving (SPORTs mode junkies), and people that want comfort (use climate controls)! I'm in low-mid 40s for 2/3rds the year and low-mid 30s for 1/3rd of the year. 2013 numbers would raise me a bit but I'm currently still thrilled after 15 months.

 

[GRA]

While I'm glad of the incremental range boost, the new feature I really like (and wanted) is this:

"Other changes to the 2013 Chevrolet Volt include a "Hold Drive" button that allows owners to conserve battery-pack energy for use at a particular time or when it will make the car most efficient. This is essentially the "charge-sustaining button" in the Opel/Vauxhall Ampera sold in Europe."

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important. Previously you had to do it with the Mountain mode button, and that only gave you something like 4kWh instead of 1.? Ideally I'd like to see two modes, a CD mode the way the Volt does things now for the people whose commute is within AER, and a 'regular' mode that only goes into EV mode at speeds below say 50 mph. It's not clear to me from the article whether the 2013 Volt works this way, but it does seem to be an improvement on what's currently offered.

 

[TomT]

I have a hard time believing that more than a very small fraction would actually use it for that reason... It just takes too much planning and forethought.

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important.

 

[scottf200]

I have a hard time believing that more than a very small fraction would actually use it for that reason... It just takes too much planning and forethought.

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important.

I agree with TomT about the low percentage. I think it was more of competitive/sales pressure with other USA sold cars offering it. In other countries they are motivated financially.
http://translogic.aolautos.com/2012/03/29/in-detail-opel-ampera/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cities with restricted zones, like the European low emissions zones, only allow vehicles like hybrids, EVs, or low-emission gas engines. So using the battery mode is best in these areas. Also, when driving on battery in London, there is no congestion charge in the city center. Battery Hold mode is at home in Europe.
<snip>
Having a car with Battery Hold mode in cities with congestion fees can really make the car appealing. In London, fees are about $18 every time you drive into the congestion zone.

 

[surfingslovak]

It is widely known that most people drive less than 40 miles a day.. why are you surprised?.. why would they benefit from fast charging a Leaf?

A Mitsubishi iMiev with its 62 miles of range might provide the most bang for the buck for a lot of people. It is a bit confusing that people with long commutes are the ones that need electrics the most.. but gasoline cars are very inefficient in short commutes before the engine warms up.

Michael Thwaite has recently created a website to track the mileage individual BMW ActiveE owners log. It's an unlimited mileage lease, and we have a competition going for the most miles driven. Not surprisingly, Tom Moloughney is in the lead. The interesting bit is, the average daily miles driven are 46 on the West Coast and 42 on the East Coast. The site also gives you an interesting anecdotal insights, and there are definitely some drivers that need more than 40 miles a day.

Click to open

 

[SanDust]

No, it wouldn't, as I'm sure you realized, when you made this misleading statement.

The small difference in % number of trips, might result in a much larger % of miles driven.

In my case, for instance, A Volt would only provide about 30%-35% as many "electric miles" as does my LEAF, though for most drivers, with shorter average trips, the percentage would probably be 50%-75.

You're misreading the presentation. Slide 4 makes clear that the utility factor refers to miles driven per day NOT miles driven per trip. Not sure why you went down the "per trip" bunny trail.

Anyone can create a scenario where you get more EV miles. You can assume charging at work or QC chargers or anything else. This presentation, like all professional presentations, assumes one charge a day because you can't account for opportunity charging in a reliable way. Plus your math is wrong. There isn't any scenario where a Volt would only get 30% of the EV miles as a Leaf assuming they both go on the same route and have the same charging opportunities. It's impossible. 35/72 or 48.6% would be the absolute lower bound.

However, the empirical data suggests that, if anything, it's much more likely that the Volt will get more electric miles than a Leaf. Let's assume the best possible case for Leaf's EV miles. Let's assume that for 6% of the days each year when daily travel is greater than the Volt's electric range but within the Leaf's electric range, the Leaf and the Volt go exactly to the Leaf's maximum range of 72 miles. (Not realistic at all but this is the best case for the Leaf). This means that on these days, all 21.9 of them, the Leaf would go 832.2 more electric miles. Advantage Leaf. However, for 32% of the days in the year the Leaf's electric range is insufficient. On these days the Leaf doesn't accumulate any electric miles but the Volt does. It goes 35 electric miles. Over the course of a year that's 4088 electric miles on these 116.8 days. Bigger advantage Volt. This shouldn't be a surprise. Many or most people here with Leafs keep a second car for longer trips, though we've never thought very hard about what that means for total EV miles for a person with average driving habits. (Note the Volt's new extra miles changes things but probably not significantly).

Personally the Volt's advantage seems unlikely but, when I look at the graph of the Annual Travel Distribution, I go 100+ miles far less than the average driver. If I was average I'd probably think it obvious.

 

[SanDust]

The Michael Thwaite has recently created a website to track the mileage individual BMW ActiveE owners log.

Does this do a read like voltstats or is the data self reported? I really like these websites because they're based on facts and not speculation.

 

[surfingslovak]

Does this do a read like voltstats or is the data self reported? I really like these websites because they're based on facts and not speculation.

No, unfortunately it doesn't. The ActiveE has a mobile app just like the Leaf, and we could collect some of that data that way, but for now it's up to individual owners to update their total mileage periodically on an honor system. That said, any chance that we could launch leafstats at some point? I haven't spent that much time on the Volt board lately, but I believe that the author has made the source code that runs the site freely available. The only thing we would need to implement are web service calls into CarWings. It would be great if we had an owner database, much like Volt drivers do.

 

[GRA]

I have a hard time believing that more than a very small fraction would actually use it for that reason... It just takes too much planning and forethought.

While GHG emissions have the same effect anywhere, CO, NOX and VOCs are most critical in built up urban areas. Since large numbers of people commute from suburbs to central cities via freeway, being able to hold the battery capacity for stop and go and urban driving at each end is important.

I agree with TomT about the low percentage. I think it was more of competitive/sales pressure with other USA sold cars offering it. In other countries they are motivated financially.
http://translogic.aolautos.com/2012/03/29/in-detail-opel-ampera/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Cities with restricted zones, like the European low emissions zones, only allow vehicles like hybrids, EVs, or low-emission gas engines. So using the battery mode is best in these areas. Also, when driving on battery in London, there is no congestion charge in the city center. Battery Hold mode is at home in Europe.
<snip>
Having a car with Battery Hold mode in cities with congestion fees can really make the car appealing. In London, fees are about $18 every time you drive into the congestion zone.

The MTC in the Bay Area has essentially implemented congestion-based tolls for the bridges feeding San Francisco during the week, although they're nowhere near as high as inner-city fees like London's. I'd love to see congestion fees for driving into the S.F. business district (i.e. Market Street Corridor etc.) during a weekday, but it's not likely to happen anytime soon.

However, I disagree about the percentage of Volt drivers who might use such a mode, and its difficulty (especially if it's speed-controlled). At the moment, the typical Volt buyer is much more technically and/or environmentally aware than the average buyer. Second, for most people this is essentially a one-time deal - set a default and forget it. Anyone who's commute falls within the AER will use CD mode as their default, everyone else would use regular mode. For those who want to maximize their use of EV range, you could probably design the system to allow customization of when you go into AER mode, say when you've got enough AER to reach home. Or A simple "Switch to AER mode?" prompt could pop up on one of the screens when those conditions have been met, and you could enable it if you wished.

 

[edatoakrun]

"SanDust"...you can't account for opportunity charging in a reliable way...

Since your comment is largely fallacious, as per your usual practice, I will reply to the single kernel of truth above.

I drive a BEV.

I do not often "opportunity charge", because it is, in the form of public L2 1772s, not only unreliable, but extremely expensive as well, though I, like virtually every EV driver, have never had to pay the true cost of the service, myself.

I do make trips beyond my single-charge range, especially when there is a convenient 240V source I can count on for a necessary charge.

Other EV owners might consider it disadvantageous to live in an area where the "opportunity charging" J1772 L2s are nearly non-existent.

But about 95% of my miles are within my LEAF's single charge range. For the occasional longer drive, I use Phil's excellent modified Panasonic 16 amp EVSE. Almost everyone I know has a 240 V electric dryer outlet in their home. I am also fortunate to live in an area, where most people only get to visit while "on vacation". So where I take longer trips, there is already a dependable, and fairly extensive 240V infrastructure, in the form of RV parks, often in scenic locations. I've found park owners are generally happy to make a few bucks, and, on the relatively rare occasion I do need a charge away fom my (or a friend's) home, I usually get a much nicer place to wait for a slow charge, than a Walgreen's parking lot.

Of course, DC charge stations will probably, sooner or later, end most of the short-stay-L2-charge business for RV park owners, and the market for public J1772 L2s, and (back on-topic) PHEVs, as well.

 

[scottf200]

However, I disagree about the percentage of Volt drivers who might use such a mode, and its difficulty (especially if it's speed-controlled). At the moment, the typical Volt buyer is much more-technically and/or environmentally aware than the average buyer. Second, for most people this is essentially a one-time deal - set a default and forget it. Anyone who's commute falls within the AER will use CD mode as their default, everyone else would use regular mode. For those who want to maximize their use of EV range, you could probably design the system to allow customization of when you go into AER mode, say when you've got enough AER to reach home. Or A simple "Switch to AER mode?" prompt could pop up on one of the screens when those conditions have been met, and you could enable it if you wished.

"Normal" MODE is the *start*up* default in 2011/2012 and I suspect it will be the default in 2013. It does not stay in the last MODE you were in. ie. if you used "sport" MODE and shut the car off then starting up again it would be in "Normal" MODE. "Sport" MODE is sort of unique because you would not want your spouse, or teen to to the driveway shuffle and in "sport" MODE when the expect a typical cars feel/touch of the accelerator pedal (aka "normal"MODE).

I think after a couple years the Volt is getting pretty close to getting out of the 'early adopter' phase. The Ampera is selling well and probably to more normal folks that keep cars a little longer and hate the really really high gas prices (compared to ours).

 

[Herm]

However, the empirical data suggests that, if anything, it's much more likely that the Volt will get more electric miles than a Leaf..

There is no range anxiety with a Volt, just drive it and then it switches into the hybrid mode.. in the Leaf you worry about it and keep an eye on the GOM etc. Not a big deal when the Volt depletes the battery.

 

[scottf200]

Top 10 Volt states. Any shock you. MN?!?
Original article: http://www.freep.com/article/201206...a-can-t-get-enough-of-the-Volt-as-sales-surge

GasBuddy.com map