For heaven sakes when will that 4th bar drop

[Marktm]

For about $12 you could purchase a OBDII adapter(assuming you don't have a iPhone but do have a android phone) and download the free Leafspy lite app and you could read your cars SOH. Of course living where you do I'd bet you'd have other Leaf drivers not too far away who might not mind uplugging their OBDII, plugging it in your car and giving you the reading, it's up to you.
Personally with a '11 or '12 Leaf I wouldn't want to be without either Leafspy or some other dedicated battery health reader. If not for the battery health then for the very handy SOC% display that personally I wouldn't want to live without.
This is the OBDII I have and it works very well with a Samsung Galaxy smart phone:
http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Android/dp/B00PJPHEBO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

jjeff;
I purchased a similar configured ELM327 V2.1 that has the same ISO spec compliance, but does not have the SAE J1850 PWM (41.6 Kbaud)
SAE J1850 VPW (10.4 Kbaud) compliances listed. Don't believe this is the issue, just an observation.
They are the same size and color with a different label. I could not get it to recognize the ECU. I'm surprised that these chinese clones are any different (except the label) - however, they must be.
Turbo3 has a good explanation (he should know) about how the Leaf has slightly different protocols and unless the dongle is fully compliant with V1.5ELM327, it might not work.
The incompatibilities go on.

 

[yujungchang]

Also I will order the Leaf Spy and get it going to keep you posted. I will keep this post updated with screenshots etc. Thanks for your help.

PS. Seems like there are about 8 dongles for this Leaf Spy. Is there a common one that is a favorite? Thanks.

Don't have any recommendation on the dongle. I bought mine 3 years ago from ebay. Since they are cheap and don't know which one is good, I bought 3 different one. One blue short one, one blue long one and one black long dongle is the one you saw. Out of the 3, the long blue dongle failed to work out of the box. The other 2 work, but have intermittent issues. The short one sometimes failed the connection after few minutes and has to be reconnected. I use this one primarily, because of short profile and eventually failed recently. The long black one is harder to connect and interfere with the leg, but it's stable once connected correctly. Unless you know someone purchased recently and confirmed work, I'll say just to buy at least couple of different ones.

 

[vin944]

Also I will order the Leaf Spy and get it going to keep you posted. I will keep this post updated with screenshots etc. Thanks for your help.

PS. Seems like there are about 8 dongles for this Leaf Spy. Is there a common one that is a favorite? Thanks.

Don't have any recommendation on the dongle. I bought mine 3 years ago from ebay. Since they are cheap and don't know which one is good, I bought 3 different one. One blue short one, one blue long one and one black long dongle is the one you saw. Out of the 3, the long blue dongle failed to work out of the box. The other 2 work, but have intermittent issues. The short one sometimes failed the connection after few minutes and has to be reconnected. I use this one primarily, because of short profile and eventually failed recently. The long black one is harder to connect and interfere with the leg, but it's stable once connected correctly. Unless you know someone purchased recently and confirmed work, I'll say just to buy at least couple of different ones.

Thanks for the info. On Mon. I will try the QC w my EZ card and see how that goes. If successful I will do the 3x climbs. Maybe sometime in June you can read it for me again and see if there is any chance of getting down to the magic numbers. If not then we'll just go with what we have. But for sure there may be some synchronicity here simply running into you at the market with a Leaf Spy able to read my car for the 1st time in 5 yrs. That was pretty cool and I appreciate it. I'll let you know how Monday goes. Thanks again.

 

[baustin]

For about $12 you could purchase a OBDII adapter(assuming you don't have a iPhone but do have a android phone) and download the free Leafspy lite app and you could read your cars SOH. Of course living where you do I'd bet you'd have other Leaf drivers not too far away who might not mind uplugging their OBDII, plugging it in your car and giving you the reading, it's up to you.
Personally with a '11 or '12 Leaf I wouldn't want to be without either Leafspy or some other dedicated battery health reader. If not for the battery health then for the very handy SOC% display that personally I wouldn't want to live without.
This is the OBDII I have and it works very well with a Samsung Galaxy smart phone:
http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Android/dp/B00PJPHEBO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

jjeff;
I purchased a similar configured ELM327 V2.1 that has the same ISO spec compliance, but does not have the SAE J1850 PWM (41.6 Kbaud)
SAE J1850 VPW (10.4 Kbaud) compliances listed. Don't believe this is the issue, just an observation.
They are the same size and color with a different label. I could not get it to recognize the ECU. I'm surprised that these chinese clones are any different (except the label) - however, they must be.
Turbo3 has a good explanation (he should know) about how the Leaf has slightly different protocols and unless the dongle is fully compliant with V1.5ELM327, it might not work.
The incompatibilities go on.

The ELM327 units work well, but need to be a version 1.5 to function correctly. The version 2.1 units do not work properly, if at all.

 

[vin944]

Hello all,
I have a slight dilemma here. If this 4th bar does not drop by Aug 23rd I'm SOL on a new battery.

I have a 2011 Leaf currently with 47,000 mi on it. My bars have dissappeared like this:

20,000 1st bar gone.
30,000 2nd bar gone.
40,000 3rd bar gone.
47,000 still waiting for the 4th bar to say bye-bye...................

Is there anyway I can tell when that 4th bar will drop? Maybe some gadget can be connected to the car and see the state of that final bar.
If it's close to dropping, I'll drive the car in circles if I have to.
I live in the Folsom area near Sacramento. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

For about $12 you could purchase a OBDII adapter(assuming you don't have a iPhone but do have a android phone) and download the free Leafspy lite app and you could read your cars SOH. Of course living where you do I'd bet you'd have other Leaf drivers not too far away who might not mind uplugging their OBDII, plugging it in your car and giving you the reading, it's up to you.
Personally with a '11 or '12 Leaf I wouldn't want to be without either Leafspy or some other dedicated battery health reader. If not for the battery health then for the very handy SOC% display that personally I wouldn't want to live without.
This is the OBDII I have and it works very well with a Samsung Galaxy smart phone:
http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Android/dp/B00PJPHEBO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

OK so I bought this unit and it's working fine. After some QCs I am down from 43.90 to 43.53. Not huge but were getting there. I have a question regarding the Leaf Spy SOC. I'm coming down a big hill and the SOC is climbing due to regen. As the SOC is getting larger and larger I drop a charge bar. That seems counter-intuitive. It happened twice. Shouldn't I be gaining a charge bar during regen? Any ideas on this behavior? Also the chademo readout and SOC are not synced up. Each have their own different percentage readings. Thanks.

 

[cwerdna]

Also the chademo readout and SOC are not synced up. Each have their own different percentage readings.

I wouldn't worry about that.

 

[vin944]

Lost the 9th capacity bar today at 43.35 AHr according to the Leaf Spy. Thanks to all for your recommendations and guidance. Please excuse me while I do the battery dance. :mrgreen:

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Congrats! When you get a chance, please add your vehicle to http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars.

You said Aug 23rd in your OP, but your user info says Aug 8, 2011 delivery date. Whichever date it is, do not wait until the very last minute to get this condition verified at a dealer's service department.

 

[vin944]

Lost the 9th capacity bar today at 43.35 AHr according to the Leaf Spy. Thanks to all for your recommendations and guidance. Please excuse me while I do the battery dance. :mrgreen:

Battery was ordered today. 6-8 wks to get here. Service advisor says most likely coming from Japan but he is not sure. From Jun 13th 2016 till now the AHrs have dropped from 43.35 to 42.09. I have not QC since the 9th bar dropped on the 13th of June. From May 19 to June 13 I QCed 42 times. The 9th bar dropped at that time and I have not QCed again. The AHr readings fell precipitously after discontinuing QC till today where it appears to have settled down to 42.10-42.09 AHr. So I cannot say for sure the AHr reading that the bar dropped since it fluctuated so much in the last couple weeks. Any advice?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Hello all,
I have a slight dilemma here. If this 4th bar does not drop by Aug 23rd I'm SOL on a new battery.

I have a 2011 Leaf currently with 47,000 mi on it. My bars have dissappeared like this:

20,000 1st bar gone.
30,000 2nd bar gone.
40,000 3rd bar gone.
47,000 still waiting for the 4th bar to say bye-bye...................

Is there anyway I can tell when that 4th bar will drop? Maybe some gadget can be connected to the car and see the state of that final bar.
If it's close to dropping, I'll drive the car in circles if I have to.
I live in the Folsom area near Sacramento. Any recommendations?

Thanks.

For about $12 you could purchase a OBDII adapter(assuming you don't have a iPhone but do have a android phone) and download the free Leafspy lite app and you could read your cars SOH. Of course living where you do I'd bet you'd have other Leaf drivers not too far away who might not mind uplugging their OBDII, plugging it in your car and giving you the reading, it's up to you.
Personally with a '11 or '12 Leaf I wouldn't want to be without either Leafspy or some other dedicated battery health reader. If not for the battery health then for the very handy SOC% display that personally I wouldn't want to live without.
This is the OBDII I have and it works very well with a Samsung Galaxy smart phone:
http://www.amazon.com/Panlong-Bluetooth-Diagnostic-Scanner-Android/dp/B00PJPHEBO?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_search_detailpage

OK so I bought this unit and it's working fine. After some QCs I am down from 43.90 to 43.53. Not huge but were getting there. I have a question regarding the Leaf Spy SOC. I'm coming down a big hill and the SOC is climbing due to regen. As the SOC is getting larger and larger I drop a charge bar. That seems counter-intuitive. It happened twice. Shouldn't I be gaining a charge bar during regen? Any ideas on this behavior? Also the chademo readout and SOC are not synced up. Each have their own different percentage readings. Thanks.

no

your gauge is not accurate enough. its basically just a guideline which is the reason why when you lose the requisite number of bars for a battery replacement, it still has to be taken in to verify that the correct level of degradation has been achieved. There have been a few people who lost the bar and had the inspection only to be told they were not quite there yet.

FYI; the entire dash is that way. I have LEAF Spy temp readings 6º lower showing 5 TBs than a reading with 4 TBs.... a degree here or there, Ok but Six??

 

[vin944]

New battery (about6-7 wks to order) is in and I have my full regen back again and it's great. I had it done in Roseville because of the bad experiences I had in Folsom. The service rep Mike is one of a kind. He is the best. He sent me pics of the install when the old battery was out and the new one being put back in. Nice guy.

I took it to Roseville because Mike at Roseville told me for sure it would be a brand new battery. I did call Folsom with the slight chance of taking it there and can you believe it the rep told me he's not 100% sure it would be brand new. So I went to Roseville without question. To top off the great experience there, they even straightened out the dented jack points that Folsom did during a tire rotation. 110% customer experience in Roseville! Here are a couple of LeafSpy pics before and after. If anyone wants to see install pics let me know.

Day I brought the car in:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzYPiKWN6D4OcFpTSUlBNHZwS2s

New battery: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzYPiKWN6D4OSHhBOURGLWxPaU0

 

[ncscenic]

2) Park inside garage in winter and it will become an extremely expensive 3KW heater. That helps to prevent cold air entering the upstairs living space. If the car failed its original function, this will become the only useful feature of the Leaf ! Maybe I should park it in my living room

Oh my, I haven't laughed that hard in a very long time.

 

[ncscenic]

I guess the thing that bothers me about this whole 8th bar battery replacement thing is that our car is currently at 14.4 KWh while it was originally at 24. That's a lot less than 70%. Works out to be 60 percent to be exact. But the computer just will not drop that bar. And in terms of daily driving range-- 50 is a lot less than 84 miles. The GOM often predicts 65 or so, but we never get that sort of range. Just seems frustrating to me

 

[cwerdna]

I guess the thing that bothers me about this whole 8th bar battery replacement thing is that our car is currently at 14.4 KWh while it was originally at 24. That's a lot less than 70%. Works out to be 60 percent to be exact. But the computer just will not drop that bar. And in terms of daily driving range-- 50 is a lot less than 84 miles. The GOM often predicts 65 or so, but we never get that sort of range. Just seems frustrating to me

How did you know the bolded part?

Nissan rates the pack at 24 kWh but only provides 21-22 kWh usable on a new pack. And, I don't bother w/supposed kWh readings on Leaf Spy, since I believe they're derived from number of gids * (whatever # of Wh you want each gid to represent). So, 14.4 kWh or whatever may be off by quite a bit. And, we don't know how accurate gids are in terms of reflection of actual capacity.

What are your stats on Leaf Spy in terms of these: # of gids on full charge, AHr, SOH and Hx?

(Nissan's AFAIK never documented (externally) any of the values apps like Leaf Spy use found on the CAN bus or found by querying.)

 

[ncscenic]

I have no verification of the original capacity. I guess I assume (?) given that that was what was advertised, that was delivered.

We currently sit at 44.09 amp hours.

Still a decrease of 20 miles in a pretty big deal especially in the greatly abundant charging network. (Bit tongue and cheek, there) We have one public rapid charger within 20 miles. Not exactly a party network. So those original 20 miles make a big difference in one's ability to to just about anything.

I get it, it's just frustrating.

 

[cwerdna]

We currently sit at 44.09 amp hours.

FWIW, from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984, you may/may not have a while to go. I don't normally only look at AHr. I'd look at AHr, SOH, Hx and # of gids on full charge and compare those to others. Or, post those and get feedback.

 

[vin944]

I guess the thing that bothers me about this whole 8th bar battery replacement thing is that our car is currently at 14.4 KWh while it was originally at 24. That's a lot less than 70%. Works out to be 60 percent to be exact. But the computer just will not drop that bar. And in terms of daily driving range-- 50 is a lot less than 84 miles. The GOM often predicts 65 or so, but we never get that sort of range. Just seems frustrating to me

If you do this 10-15 times in a row (once per day for 10-15 days) you will drop 3-4 Ahr. (Battery Temp)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYPiKWN6D4OOUdjeHBWYS1PRU0/view

 

[Amund]

You loose the 3rd bar, when SOH is under 72,5% for 2 months.
You loose the 4th bar, when SOH is under 66,25% for 2 months.
http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss

If you are waiting for the 4th bar:
SOH might go up and down. When you QC, SOH might go up, and the 2 months timer is reset.

But, why wait for the 4th bar:
Shouldn't the capacity warranty guarantee 70% SOH?

 

[TimLee]

...

But, why wait for the 4th bar:
Shouldn't the capacity warranty guarantee 70% SOH?

NO.
Capacity warranty is based on losing four capacity bars.

For most that has been the BMS showing something more like 62% to 65% capacity.

 

[Travis]

I know what you guys are going through waiting for that 4th bar to drop. It was miserable. I was quick charging on my way to work (L2 @ Work) then again on the way home. It was almost getting to the point where it was comical. I was literally suffering with a car that had a usable range of about 15 miles (if you expected to get home).

My friends called it my golf cart. I would spend over an hour a day quick charging (which wasn't quick anymore). I told everyone that in the end I was going to win.... Nissan was betting me that I couldn't stand the crippled car and would trade it in. I was betting them that I was a stubborn nerd who would never admit defeat.

@ ~48k I won the bet

The day mine dropped I instantly took it into the dealership. To me it was like christmas. The dealer even happened to have a leaf loaner. I was a happy camper.

After about 2 weeks the dealership called me up and wanted me to come pickup my car. The dealer wanted me to keep limping around that car for the next *2 MONTHS* while Nissan manufactured the battery for my car. At that point I just couldn't take it anymore. I was mad and I wasn't going to accept back my car without the new battery and I didn't want to give back the loaner. I called Nissan corporate and they arranged for me to keep the loaner for the full 2 months.

I purchased this car used so I never got to experience what the battery was like when it was new. Now that I'm all use to the crippled pack I can charge to 80% and it feels like a HUGE pack!!! I'm very happy with the car now!