For heaven sakes when will that 4th bar drop
- Thread starter vin944
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From what I have gleaned about all this 4th bar stuff is that the warranty agreement will happen at 70% cap loss. Judge liked it and thought it was fair, nice round number and that's around when the 4th bar drops. Then the P3227 update rolls out with the disguise that it's just a charger update but in reality it did 2 things. 1) Take out the regen to limit any pack heating however negligible it may be. 2) Change the 4th bar threshold to 65%. They did forget one thing though and that was to limit consecutive QCs. That's how I was able to get my new battery. I QCed 3 times within a 2 hr window and that heated the pack up like never before. In 10 days I went from 9 bars to 8. I was told by many that my Spy numbers did not look promising; that I could get to the 8th bar within my warranty period (3 mos left). Normally that would have been correct. But exploiting the consecutive QC hole that Nissan's engineers didn't think about for the P3227, I was basically allowed to burn up the battery. It's a cat and mouse game and if you're close to 60k mi or 5 yrs you have to find a QC and work that thing if you want a new battery. With the new battery you get your regen back and it's like a new car. Does anyone out there believe corporate sneakiness does not exist?
Stanton
Well-known member
vin944 said:
Unfortunately (I assume) regen will again go away as the battery pack degrades. I wish there was a way to "roll back" the P3227 update (once you get a new pack).
Unfortunately (I assume) regen will again go away as the battery pack degrades. I wish there was a way to "roll back" the P3227 update (once you get a new pack). [/quote]
Unfortunately you won't be eligible for the warranty w/o the P3227 update. As far as regen, all I know is that I lost it all the day they put P3227 in. I complained about it but all I got was a song and dance about how the update only affected the onboard charger. The techs are probably in the dark on the update, no reason to drag those poor guys into the corporate deception. So I conclude that regen is not a function of pack degradation. You either have regen or you don't. If someone knows otherwise please chime in.
[/quote]Unfortunately you won't be eligible for the warranty w/o the P3227 update. As far as regen, all I know is that I lost it all the day they put P3227 in. I complained about it but all I got was a song and dance about how the update only affected the onboard charger. The techs are probably in the dark on the update, no reason to drag those poor guys into the corporate deception. So I conclude that regen is not a function of pack degradation. You either have regen or you don't. If someone knows otherwise please chime in.
Levenkay
Well-known member
My guess is that Nissan believes that high levels of regeneration degrade the battery by some (probably miniscule) degree, so, now that they're occasionally having to replace batteries under warranty, they're doing all they can to minimize battery warranty claims. If that's so, the question would be: are they right? I like strong regeneration, too, but I think I'd rather pay for friction brake wear than for replacement battery packs.
If you're worried about replacing the pack because of 30kW of regen then you better limit your acceleration to only 25 kW. Any more and you will violate your brake pad rule. You're not thinking about this. Any amount of current into or out of the battery will heat it up. Heat destroys the 2011 and 2012 battery packs. Many have argued that Nissan should simply replace all 2011 and 2012 packs as an act of good faith just because we were pioneers. But nope they chose to give us the bird and not only that, after being sued they deploy the P3227 saying it was a charger fix. I told them my charger was fine and he says no we have to do it. Did taking away the regen prolong my 8th bar from dropping? Maybe but the batteries were junk anyway. I dropped a bar every year until the last 2 yrs. Right after the P3227 it would have taken me 3 years to drop the 8th bar and that's because they reprogrammed the bars so that 8 was 64-65%, not 70% agreed on in court. So what's a person to do to counter. QC 3 times in a 2 hours window. Who would ever do that? P3227 should have limited that but it didn't and here's what you get: lol
Do this 10-15 times and you will lose 3-4 Ahr.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYPiKWN6D4OOUdjeHBWYS1PRU0/view
You will need access to a DCQC. The DCQC will literally cook your battery.
Do this 10-15 times and you will lose 3-4 Ahr.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzYPiKWN6D4OOUdjeHBWYS1PRU0/view
You will need access to a DCQC. The DCQC will literally cook your battery.
Durandal
Well-known member
Considering that my wife's Nissan Versa was exhibiting early symptoms of transmission failure (CVT) and Nissan tried to do all sorts of other things before finally relenting and replacing the transmission under warranty, including a software update, that you guessed it, modifies the behavior of the CVT in order to reduce complaints on it. They know there is a problem with it, they were just trying to delay until the warranty period expired. Well, at 45,000 miles it was replaced under warranty.vin944 said:
The VW emissions scandal tells me all I need to know about corporate sneakiness. It's prevalent in the automotive industry, sadly.
I'm not sure that the P3227 has been applied to my 2012, as I still get 30kW of regen at times (although mostly it taps out at 20kW) but when I first obtained the car, I called the Nissan Leaf customer line to determine if there were any campaigns or updates outstanding on my vehicle, and they said that there was not. I'm not sure that they would know for sure, I may have to take it into a Nissan dealership to know for sure, but the used Toyota dealership I bought it from swore that they took it to the Nissan dealership for examination and charging.
All you have to do is call your most reputable Nissan dealer (lol) and give them the VIN. They will tell you if your campaigns are met. Call my guy Mike Webster at Future Nissan of Roseville CA. He is actually on board w us. He has told me I actually know more than he does about Leaf techy stuff. I watched him put my VIN in and all the campaigns showed up. The tech here at Folsom Nissan actually told me he wasn't sure if I would get a brand new battery and if I would get my regen back lol. So I called Roseville and talked to Mike. He assured me that not only would I get a brand new battery, but where it came from and he lived up to his word.
Durandal said:
Off topic, but:
My dealer allowed me to take pictures of the replacement battery pack for my 2012 Leaf. It was stored among dozens of black tote bins - all looking the same. I asked "what are all these" - the answer - failed CVT transmissions! You might want to check on any "class actions" with these transmissions.
Durandal
Well-known member
Marktm said:
:shock:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Marktm said:
CVT is one of the most complicated tech thingys to come out in years. but everyone decided against leasing Toyota's near flawless design to build their own... with mixed results
Regen definitely continues to get worse as the battery degrades. I've had the P3227 update for years and regen continues to get worse and worse. At freeway speeds there is very little regen until LBW.vin944 said:
Brake pads aren't warranted as they are normal wear items. Even with significantly reduced regen, unless you frequently brake hard to a stop, the brakes on the LEAF are still beefy enough to last a long time. When I brought up the significant decrease in regen at LAB 2 years ago and use an increase in friction brake use and wear as one example of a drawback, the response was "well, are you aware of any brake wear issues due to it?". At that point I gave up since the point was completely missed.Levenkay said:
Perhaps one reason why the Nissan has introduced the e-Power hybrid system which eliminates the CVT in favor of a simple EV drivetrain and generator.DaveinOlyWA said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
The Subaru Justy was the first vehicle in the US that I recall having a CVT.DaveinOlyWA said:
Just because Toyota hadn't widely used CVTs (excluding the power split device used in hybrids) in the US doesn't mean they weren't using them elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobiles_with_continuously_variable_transmissions has a bunch. Several years ago, I recall seeing a video that got removed of a weird Japanese show with a reverse drag race between a JDM Corolla (?) CVT w/its reverse speed limiter removed vs. some Ferrari. IIRC, the JDM car was faster. Found it: http://jalopnik.com/5792401/watch-a-toyota-drag-race-a-ferrari-backwards is from 2011, but the video's gone
You can probably find more details by Googling for jdm toyota cvt.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-toyota-corolla-photos-and-info-news-taking-the-cvt-plunge-page-2 went w/a dual-pulley CVT.
Most/all (?) of Nissan's CVTs come from Jatco (http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/products/). No surprise since http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/company/profile.html states Nissan owns 75% of the company.
When I was a kid in the Seventies, snowmobiles and small dirt bikes all had CVT drives. Two variable-width, spring-controlled pulleys and a belt isn't exactly incomprehensible. All of the complication has come from trying to make a CVT do things with its ratios that physics would normally frown upon.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
concept is simple. implementation that survives the test of time is not.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
cwerdna said:The Subaru Justy was the first vehicle in the US that I recall having a CVT.DaveinOlyWA said:
Just because Toyota hadn't widely used CVTs (excluding the power split device used in hybrids) in the US doesn't mean they weren't using them elsewhere. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_automobiles_with_continuously_variable_transmissions has a bunch. Several years ago, I recall seeing a video that got removed of a weird Japanese show with a reverse drag race between a JDM Corolla (?) CVT w/its reverse speed limiter removed vs. some Ferrari. IIRC, the JDM car was faster. Found it: http://jalopnik.com/5792401/watch-a-toyota-drag-race-a-ferrari-backwards is from 2011, but the video's gone
You can probably find more details by Googling for jdm toyota cvt.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2014-toyota-corolla-photos-and-info-news-taking-the-cvt-plunge-page-2 went w/a dual-pulley CVT.
Most/all (?) of Nissan's CVTs come from Jatco (http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/products/). No surprise since http://www.jatco.co.jp/ENGLISH/company/profile.html states Nissan owns 75% of the company.
wasn't it Mercedes that had developed a hybrid with CVT that actually got WORSE mileage than their normal ICE?
TimLee
Well-known member
All get the 2015 model year forward more heat resistant chemistry.Bretsuaz said:
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
Bretsuaz said:
Li has a shelf life issue. doesn't matter if its used or not. so you will get a 2016 battery pack
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