Disappointment with battery capacity and "Nissan miles"

[TRONZ]

Not trying to be a jerk or anything here but where did barsad22 buy his car and where is he driving it around? Did I miss something??? I mean, usually when I pick up the phone and someone starts asking me questions making provocative statements I ask "who am I speaking with"? I re-read some of the "interesting" and "conflicting" word choices in the OP and would really appreciate you providing at least your VIN# and dealer info here;

https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AptkktKEhdz9dGhheXpqT09naFdkYjN4aXJ4NlNPV3c&hl=en&authkey=CJm01I8B#gid=0

barsad22, your OP is written with alot of "spin" words for and against the LEAF. But lets be clear, "spin" is "spin" and the purpose of writing conflicting "spin", as you have, is to plant doubt and controversy for readers that don't know any better. Mission Accomplished, eh . It would also seem you are eager to be the victim of Nissan, "warn" future LEAF buyers (first words of your OP) and claim to be attacked on this thread when everyone is just offering alot of great, thoughtful advice. Most very early adopters are more than happy to share there order/delivery info. Considering all the above, it is very strange that you do not!

 

[JasonT]

Not trying to be a jerk or anything here but where did barsad22 buy his car and where is he driving it around?
...
Most very early adopters are more than happy to share there order/delivery info. Considering all the above, it is very strange that you do not!

Woah woah woah woah here. As I understand it, the spreadsheet was a tool partially for bragging rights, and partially to get some data points to help people understand why things were happening they way they were (who got to order when, why is x car arriving before y car, etc...).

There is absolutely nothing in this forum making the spreadsheet a requirement, or even a heavy suggestion (It's not one of the "announcement" threads). Additionally, this forum doesn't require users to use a real name, nor put their city, state, or even country in their profile.

I can certainly understand an initial skepticism with any post on here -- we don't know each other, and anyone posting could be anything from a 7 year old girl to Watson, the Jeopardy playing computer. But in this thread Josh A)Has followed up beyond the initial post, B)Is fairly articulate and C)Isn't ranting or raving - instead really just asking some questions.

Josh's point is not a completely outrageous one. I don't see why we need to say he's "fake" (or whatever) just because he won't give you the details you want that aren't even relevant to the discussion. If this becomes a forum where we require everyone to submit their Vin, Full Name, Country of Birth, Blood type, etc... it's going to become a very quiet forum indeed.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Agreed, save the scepticism for companies like EV Charge America. That sure dropped out fast

 

[TRONZ]

Put me down as a "Skeptic" please.

@JasonT, actually I am not that interested in the OP authors info. But I am interested in the fact that as a very early adopter, he is just about the only person on MNL that is not interested in providing it. :shock: AND I am very interested in the way he sprinkled his OP with random anti-EV talking points and back-handed LEAF compliments. . He's just one of us right? He was even attacked by EV folks in this thread. HE'S A VICTIM :!:

Or

He very well could be suffering buyers remorse and is "helping" Nissan by warning potential buyers about "Nissan Miles" .

BUT

Early LEAF buyers are the most eager, well informed car buyers the auto industry has ever seen... and this "buyer" is surprised that if you drive fast your range will decrease?!?! Nissan Miles??? Give me a break! $.03 a mile sounds pretty good to me.

 

[GeekEV]

If you don't think he's for real, then just don't read/respond and the thread will die on its own.

 

[Boomer23]

Not trying to be a jerk or anything here but where did barsad22 buy his car and where is he driving it around? Did I miss something???

TRONZ, I have to agree with JasonT here. I see nothing in the OP that prompts me to think he is being anything less than genuine. And yes, you did miss something. He says he lives in Berkeley and drives between there and San Francisco.

I'm not sure how much reading here or on Nissan's sites the OP does, but I think that smkettner is on the right track. Nissan doesn't really claim 100 miles range. They have been really clear, more than any other mfr, about quoting range figures in different kinds of driving scenarios.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Put me down as a "Skeptic" please.



Early LEAF buyers are the most eager, well informed car buyers the auto industry has ever seen...

Boy, from some of what I would read I would say quite the opposite, I would say more uninformed EV buyers here and there are many other car buyers that are far more informed. Sure there are some here that fit that description and a few that understand EVs and a few more know about cars but overall this is a general consumer site. This is by far the least informed EV site I have been a member of by no comparison. I'm not making a judgement here just making an observation after being involved in EVs for many years. I think you could say there is a large group of Leaf fans here and those that would like to learn about the leaf and EVs more than anything else

 

[TRONZ]

That's my point. LEAF buyers are extremely well informed about the LEAF. None of the early adopters are getting a car by accident. Most know far more about this car than the people selling them.

I think everyone here has made thoughtful comments helping the OP author with his problem. I find the prose and context of the OP highly suspect. Please mark me down as a "skeptic"! I don't know how to be more clear with this opinion.

 

[Boomer23]

Put me down as a "Skeptic" please.



Early LEAF buyers are the most eager, well informed car buyers the auto industry has ever seen...

Boy, from some of what I would read I would say quite the opposite, I would say more uninformed EV buyers here and there are many other car buyers that are far more informed. Sure there are some here that fit that description and a few that understand EVs and a few more know about cars but overall this is a general consumer site. This is by far the least informed EV site I have been a member of by no comparison. I'm not making a judgement here just making an observation after being involved in EVs for many years. I think you could say there is a large group of Leaf fans here and those that would like to learn about the leaf and EVs more than anything else

This is pretty interesting to me. A real example of "everything is relative". I'd say that people who post here with any regularity are very well informed about the Leaf AS COMPARED with the general public and as compared with people who are enthusiastic about being green but who know little about how EVs operate, how they may best be used and what they can really be expected to do. But as compared with EV enthusiasts who have been in the EV trenches for some years, like EVDRIVER, we are rank amateurs who are learning as we go. This applies especially to those of us who are not EEs. From my perspective, the technical level of discourse here is quite high and I am often out of my depth in terms of adding anything to the discussion. But to a long term EV builder and modder, this is all just introductory stuff.

I think that this distinction goes to the root of many of the disagreements that arise here about how the forum is run.

 

[bowthom]

Back OT,
Started with 100% charge and an 80 mile range indicated. Today I drove 42 miles in 25* weather, 50% freeway with a lot of traffic (speed was 30~60). Had four big guys in the car (Shorepower folk & me) zipping around in a demo ride (non-eco but the rest was). Range jumped all around at first 80, 67, 78, as the car adjusted to conditions the first couple of miles. Lost 1 batt bar within a mile of home so I think the pre-heat cost me some batt. At the end of the day (3 trips) with the heater running most of the time it showed a 37 mile range remaining and 6 bars consumed. I grew 3 trees as well but don't deserve them, I wasn't driving to maximize range.
The whole day the battery temp was 4 bars which seemed odd to me. Car was in the garage at 40* then on the road at 25*. Parked for 4 hours at 25* then driven again for a short errand.

Just what is one batt bar anyway?
What are some of you seeing for battery temp?

P.S. Also had to fuel up my GMC van today. It took 1/2 hour and $70 to fill it (had 3/8 tank). The whole time I was thinking "what am I doing here?" Price has gone up $.30 in the last week to $3.40. OUCH!

 

[EVDRIVER]

The best solution here is to recalibrate the LEAF to give 25% less SOC to miles then everyone will feel better. Also claim the LA4 is 60 not 100

 

[GeekEV]

This is pretty interesting to me. A real example of "everything is relative". I'd say that people who post here with any regularity are very well informed about the Leaf AS COMPARED with the general public and as compared with people who are enthusiastic about being green but who know little about how EVs operate, how they may best be used and what they can really be expected to do. But as compared with EV enthusiasts who have been in the EV trenches for some years, like EVDRIVER, we are rank amateurs who are learning as we go. This applies especially to those of us who are not EEs. From my perspective, the technical level of discourse here is quite high and I am often out of my depth in terms of adding anything to the discussion. But to a long term EV builder and modder, this is all just introductory stuff.

I think that this distinction goes to the root of many of the disagreements that arise here about how the forum is run.

Excellent insight. I think we would all do well to keep that in mind whenever we think someone's being harsh, or dumb. Maybe there should be some sort of ev experience level in the user profile. Me, I'm a noob. A geek, but a noob.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Well you got the plate I think the LEAF will end up with many geek-like plates

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i still question the OP's charging to 100% and only having 80 miles of range. something is wrong there.

as far as the validity of the OP, i have no doubts or questions about that. this is something we all know but has failed to mention and i think it deserves mentioning here.

EVs will not be successful unless they can carve a significant niche with the mainstream driver, but that exactly why the Leaf will fly. so get used to people coming here with concerns and not knowing the terms, conscious or the accepted protocol.

get used to it. as the market spreads to the Midwest, posts like these will be rampant. dont expect people to search the archives. i am a member of several online forums and not one has been effective in educating newbies on the basics. so we have two choices; a highly regulated forum, which i personally dont like. or an open forum that is compassionate, patience and understanding that not all come here with even a basic level of understanding.

on the charge thing, try this; the next time you think you have a full charge. go to your carwings on your computer, do a refresh, make sure the time stamp is current, then check status. see if it matches with the car since your car does not have a percentage SOC on it so guessing you are guessing and it sounds like something is not right.

12 bars "can" indicate SOC as low as 94% or so. put it in drive mode, crank the heat and with all that, your range would be around 87 miles (just did it a few minutes ago)... but at the same time drive mode, no CC, is 102 and in eco mode, its 112 for me.

 

[evnow]

Also claim the LA4 is 60 not 100

Cool. Then we don't have to fight with all the SoCal people to get Leaf

 

[Herm]

Some people want an absolute numerical display of kwh remaining but I think this would confuse many people.. a vague gas gauge type display is the best for the majority, IMO... if you charged it to 80% then it should hover at 80% and that would make sense and be simple.. along with the estimated miles-to-empty display that so many dislike of course.

Estimated ranges should work well since people are very consistent how they drive day-to-day, perhaps the problem is because the car is so new and the joy of driving is confusing everything.

Eventually you will be able to display exact kwh in the pack on your Iphone.. I can see lots of aps bubbling along in our minds

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Some people want an absolute numerical display of kwh remaining

and some people get it and it just as useless. my Prius has DTE (distance to empty) i have filled up my Prius as much as 100 miles after it hit ZERO

but I think this would confuse many people.. a vague gas gauge type display is the best for the majority,

BINGO!!

 

[JRP3]

I drive an EV with a digital display SOC meter. It shows the exact number of amp hours in the pack, it's the most accurate indicator of remaining charge. Seems like an obvious gauge to have in an EV

 

[palmermd]

I drive an EV with a digital display SOC meter. It shows the exact number of amp hours in the pack, it's the most accurate indicator of remaining charge. Seems like an obvious gauge to have in an EV

Thats why those of us who have driven an EV are amazed that Nissan opted not to put that information on the dash. The software games to try and predict the range based on the driving habits of the owner are fine, but the amp-hours available in the pack should have always been there, and not just in a low resolution format with 12 bars, but in a 0-100% or 0.0 to 24.0 kWh display (or amp-hour).

 

[evnow]

Thats why those of us who have driven an EV are amazed that Nissan opted not to put that information on the dash.

What would you do with the kwh figure ? Figure out some range figure, right ?

That's what the compter is doing as well.

I think the SOC was wrong - in which case knowing the wrong kwh wouldn't have been useful as well.