Disappointment with battery capacity and "Nissan miles"

[planet4ever]

The 12 fuel bars don't give you enough granularity and the GOM is crap. Using gids out of how many gids at 100% charge is a decent proxy for % SoC. Gids at 100% charge is a decent indicator of how much available capacity you have/have lost.

As mentioned earlier, I'm looking at my range on the dash. I have not taken the time yet to use any other methods you mention. I find it surprising that we're putting bandaids on a bad design and covering it up for Nissan by inventing creative ways to measure the range.. If their range meter is crap, then shouldn't we get together and complain to Nissan? For the average non-tech user, this car does not deliver. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the helpful links, but I look at the Leaf as a half baked car that was pushed to consumers without any transparency or responsibility from Nissan, and they shouldn't get away with it. I've worked for Toyota for 6 years and a major Bay Area networking company for another 14, all on the New product development manufacturing groups, and can't imagine a product like this making it out the door.

All this because one computer-generated number can't predict the future?

There have been literally thousands of negative posts about that gauge on this forum, and Nissan is well aware of our dissatisfaction with it. They improved it for 2013, though not enough that I depend on it.

No one here is going to pay any attention to your range complaints if you base them on that gauge. If you want to know the range of the car I suggest you charge it to 100%, reset one of the trip odometers, drive it to work and home, and then in the evening keep driving until the Turtle light comes on. It won't hurt you one time to call on the free towing service that Nissan provides. I'm betting you will discover that the car goes a lot farther than 45 miles. In the process I hope you will gain some new confidence in the car and come to appreciate that Nissan put a great deal of thought and effort into creating it.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

My apologies for the late reply, we were out of town on vacation with limited web access. Please see my replies inline.

No problem.

I'm getting my range numbers straight off the dashboard. Again, I feel that the average consumer isn't going to spend the time to figure out what the charging bars mean. Do they represent a linear or non-linear battery capacity etc. We can not dismiss the range on the dashboard as a guess-o-meter and let Nissan off the hook. Having said that I do pay attention to the bars, and on at least 3 occasions, I started out with 100% charge (all bars) and about 80 miles range showing, drove the car in conditions mentioned earlier and only had 5-6 bars left. Since I wrote my post, the dealer drove my car with 80% charge, drove the car 14 miles, and only had 5 bars left. Nissan still won't admit there is a problem.

The GOM sucks. As for the "average consumer", let's try to fix things in your case. We can't worry about everyone else who doesn't take the initiative and isn't an enthusiast while having a pre-'13 Leaf.
From http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271853#p271853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, re: the GOM:

Please consult the range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Basically, for a new battery w/no degradation, if you drove 60 mph on level ground (see all the caveats), average 3.9 miles/kwh and had 100% charge, you should be able to do ~82 miles until you hit turtle. TonyWilliams has done a bunch of range tests to confirm this is about right as there are ~21 kWh usable in a new full battery.

If you driving say 47 miles or 40 miles and have 5 or 6 fuel bars left, you are leaving a LOT of capacity unused. You can't say that you only get x miles of range until driven that distance and are down to turtle. Or, you could run to VLBW and add a "fudge factor". If you told me you could only do 45 miles of city or stop and go in the Bay Area and were down to turtle from a 100% charge, then you're talking.

On the '13+ Leafs, they finally added a % SoC indicator. That was a top request at a SF Bay Leafs meeting in December 2011 (Kadota-san (Chief Vehicle Engineer), Mark Perry and others were there, including engineers from Japan) and the source of a lot of drilling down from the Nissan quality guy about what was wrong w/the GOM. They made good on that. That meeting also happened to occur on approximately the Leaf's 1st birthday.

If you want to read about the meeting, start from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6049&start=250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I think there was another splinter thread which discussed that meeting (beyond Ingineer's turbine engine tow generator) but I can't find it right now.

My '13 Leaf shows 6 fuel bars right now and the % SoC reads 50%.

Are you charging to 100% or 80% or something else? Have you let the batteries balance?

I always charge my car 100% every night, no exceptions. I don't know what 'batteries balance' means.

Google for site:mynissanleaf.com battery balancing. On pre-MY13, AFAIK, if you charge to 100%, and then leave it plugged in for a few hours in that state, that should cause a balance.

Hmm… not sure about that, the car has been at the dealer twice for the range problem, they've never detected any problems with the HVAC system. There is a clear on/off button, so I'm certain it was off, not sure why Nissan would need another button. Again, Nissan can't expect people to think twice before using the heater to defrost the windshield etc. if the range drops significantly with heater usage, these issues need to be clearly explained to the consumer at the time of purchase.

There is no heater on/off button on the '11-'12 Leafs. I believe there an auto on/off as well as a turn the whole climate control system on/off button.

'13 Leafs have the above + dedicated heater on/off button.

For the pre-'13 Leafs, there are quirks (in the video I pointed to w/how the those earlier Leafs) in terms of heater operation. You may be unknowingly running it, further hurting range as the heater's power hungry. You can tell by looking at the energy usage screen.

As for dealer education, well, it's unfortunate but there are many dealers that are clueless.

Not sure where you saw that, but I'm using original stock tires. I didn't go back and check all my older posts however, its possible I may have written something confusing to make it look like I changed my tires.

Whoops. My bad. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/search.php?author_id=7529&sr=posts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I didn't dig into the "Michelin MXM4 tires" post. Apparently that was from TonyWilliams' post.

As mentioned earlier, I'm looking at my range on the dash. I have not taken the time yet to use any other methods you mention. I find it surprising that we're putting bandaids on a bad design and covering it up for Nissan by inventing creative ways to measure the range.. If their range meter is crap, then shouldn't we get together and complain to Nissan? For the average non-tech user, this car does not deliver. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the helpful links, but I look at the Leaf as a half baked car that was pushed to consumers without any transparency or responsibility from Nissan, and they shouldn't get away with it. I've worked for Toyota for 6 years and a major Bay Area networking company for another 14, all on the New product development manufacturing groups, and can't imagine a product like this making it out the door.

You should, otherwise you'll will just continue to get needlessly frustrated. The Leaf pioneers already found the bandaid/proxy for % SoC LONG ago: gid-meters. As I said, Nissan did listen to our concerns (I was at that meeting) but unfortunately didn't release any update to provide % SoC to older Leafs. We've asked, many times.

As for Toyota, their 2nd gen Rav4 EV also has a GOM (which TonyWilliams says works a lot better) but also a non-granular "fuel gauge". Tony's range chart for that is at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It also has some other crazy quirks (e.g. http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=409" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and unfortunately, that Rav4 EV (aka "poor man's Tesla") is apparently very unreliable, which is unusual for a Toyota. Unfortunately, AFAIK, nobody's found an a equivalent of a gid value on the Rav4 EV's CAN bus/buses nor has Toyota added a % SoC indicator.

If you show up to a http://sfbayleafs.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; meeting, I'm sure some folks will be happy to show you their gid-meters or solutions involving Android phones and Bluetooth OBD2 dongles.

Off the to top of my head, if you're not going to do that above, at least forget the GOM. Charge to full, reset trip odometer, reset your miles/kwh gauge. And think of 20-21 kwh usable, but subtracting a few kwh as a buffer. Might help to bring a copy of Tony's range chart along too.

Also, get comfortable w/taking the car down to LBW (1st warning) and drive around near home (or L2 charging) until you hit VLBW (2nd warning). Head home/for charging for sure at VLBW at a low speed. I don't recommend you take it to turtle (I never have) as you won't be able to go far on that. You'll probably be surprised how far you can go.

Again, if you're driving 40 or 50 miles, leaving 5 bars, throwing up your hands saying "car has only 40 or 50 miles" of range, you're leaving a ton of capacity on the table.

As for your charging situation at work and contention there, can you at least get 1-2 hours at L2? Per Tony's range chart post, 16 amps @ 208 volts (common for commercial power, apparently) should had 11.1 miles per hour, assuming 4 miles/kwh consumption. That should help reduce range anxiety. Or, at 120 volts, you'd add 4 miles per hour.

At your work, is there some sort of internal list of EVs/PHEVs and contact info along w/some formal/informal etiquette? At my work, there are only 10 J1772 handles + a few 120 volt outlets, yet there are ~40 known EVs/PHEVs (+ a few mystery ones). We have such a list and people are pretty good about sharing, plugging in waiting cars, yielding to others in an emergency, swapping spaces, etc. Since I don't need much juice, have a 6 kW OBC (so I can replenish charge much quicker than you can), and leave late from work anyway, I just charge late in the day, after some folks have already left and/or most are done charging.

 

[cwerdna]

All this because one computer-generated number can't predict the future?

There have been literally thousands of negative posts about that gauge on this forum, and Nissan is well aware of our dissatisfaction with it. They improved it for 2013, though not enough that I depend on it.

No one here is going to pay any attention to your range complaints if you base them on that gauge.
...
In the process I hope you will gain some new confidence in the car and come to appreciate that Nissan put a great deal of thought and effort into creating it.

+100

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

is your gas gauge any better? because it actually isn't. MOST gas gauges are actually far far worse. cars that give you an estimate of your gas tank's range? got one? I had one called a Prius.

on a typical fillup, it would tell me I had 565 miles of range (didnt matter how I drove, it always said the same thing) but the tank would yield anywhere from 450 to 600 miles. the DTE (distance to empty) gauge would hit zero usually 40 to 100 miles before I stopped to get gas. which would imply (if starting with range of 565 miles) that I would be getting gas after 665 miles right?? or no less than (565 + 40) 615??

now, why would I risk driving 100 miles past the point at which the car tells me it can't go any farther.

the answer is in the responses above. to clarify, just remove the word "charge" or "electric" and add "refuel" and "gas"

 

[pachakutek]

I just found this thread. I've had my new car for 2wks now, and yes, I clearly remember seeing in the dashboard range for "93 miles" when I drove off the dealer with only 15miles in the odometer and a full charge.
Then as I drive it to work everyday, I've seen that number decrease - today it was "78 miles" with a 100% charge.

IMO, I don't think NISSAN is necessarily dismissive on this particular point. I mean their website is clear now and says "75 miles on a single charge*" - so while the "93 miles" I first saw is a bit unreal, I take it that the car's brand new computer didn't know anything about my driving style, and was defaulted to err on that side. (may be it should've default to 50mi and start increasing from there, but 93 is what the chose)

As the computer started learning about my driving style, I think that it has started to adjust to a more realistic range prediction.

There are certainly other areas where NISSAN might have been dismissive, but I don't think this would be one.

My advice, however, to anyone considering to purchase a LEAF is to do all the research on your own before hand (Nissan website, this forum, blogs, reviews, etc) - unfortunately most sales people at the dealers have absolutely no clue of what they are selling. The guys that sold us our LEAF basically knew how to turn it on and put music - but that was it, everything else he said was misleading. However, I knew what I wanted, and from the window sticker, what I was getting. For me he was just there to negotiate price and give me the keys.

* "MY13 EPA range of 75 miles. This 75-mile range represents a blend between the two charging modes of the 2013 Nissan LEAF®, the 80 percent Long Life Mode and the 100 percent Long Distance Mode. Actual range may vary. Use for comparison only."

 

[stjohnh]

Then as I drive it to work everyday, I've seen that number decrease - today it was "78 miles" with a 100% charge.

.........

As the computer started learning about my driving style, I think that it has started to adjust to a more realistic range prediction.
.......

What you say is likely true, however, if the temp has been falling over the past 2 weeks where you live, that will also decrease your range (until the weather warms up again).

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

I have been driving the last couple days in weather thats been between 6F and 0F. I have done now about 130 miles, which should have recalibrated the GOM (I would think), yet it is still starting with a 82-85 mile range, which is fairly overoptimistic. Realistic range is closer to about 50-60 miles (without heat), so surprised the GOM hasn't caught up.

 

[planet4ever]

I have been driving the last couple days in weather thats been between 6F and 0F. I have done now about 130 miles, which should have recalibrated the GOM (I would think), yet it is still starting with a 82-85 mile range, which is fairly overoptimistic. Realistic range is closer to about 50-60 miles (without heat), so surprised the GOM hasn't caught up.

I don't think it is that smart. Do you perhaps live downhill a bit from the main part of your commute route? If so, in the morning it will stupidly assume you will be going downhill all day today, just like you did last night.

Please ignore the GOM, at least when the battery is full or nearly full.

Ray

 

[Stoaty]

I have been driving the last couple days in weather thats been between 6F and 0F. I have done now about 130 miles, which should have recalibrated the GOM (I would think), yet it is still starting with a 82-85 mile range, which is fairly overoptimistic.

Looks like you just re-discovered how the Guess-o-meter got its name. You would probably do almost as well rolling a pair of dice and multiplying the resulting total by 10.

 

[dm33]

I have been driving the last couple days in weather thats been between 6F and 0F. I have done now about 130 miles, which should have recalibrated the GOM (I would think), yet it is still starting with a 82-85 mile range, which is fairly overoptimistic. Realistic range is closer to about 50-60 miles (without heat), so surprised the GOM hasn't caught up.

The GOM doesn't average over a long period of time. It averages over a relatively short period of time, based on the the last few minutes of driving. If you drive consistently (speed, elevation change, HVAC setting) for 30 minutes or so, it may yield a fairly realistic value on a 2013. However it may be too late. If you're flying down the highway for 30 minutes at 80mph, you may not have much range left.

Approach I use is to have a feel for the mi/kwh you get on various drives. Unfortunately kWh capacity isn't reported anywhere. So I have to mentally multiply the SOC% by roughly 21 kWh to come up with a guesstimate for the kWh I have, then multiple by the mi/kwh of the drive I'm doing.

If I'm doing a slow steady drive, I can get >5mi/kwh. But thats unusual for me.
If I'm blasting down the expressway at 75-80, I'm getting around 3mi/kwh. Sometimes as little as 2.5mi/kwh if I'm heading up known hills. I've also had as much as 7mi/kwh on slower roads that end up losing elevation.

The GOM has a tough job. In my area with nothing flat, all hills and very wide range of speeds, it is unreasonable to expect any mileage estimate to be useful. SOC% or kWh remaining is the only useful measure.

 

[abasile]

The GOM has a tough job.

No kidding. Considering the impossibility of predicting future range without incorporating route, terrain, traffic, and weather information, I think it is ridiculous that the GOM figures so prominently.

Better would be to completely replace the GOM with a Tesla-style "rated miles" number. This is based only on the EPA range rating of the car and the available battery charge remaining, in linear fashion. A 2013 LEAF with a full charge and a brand new battery would show 84 rated miles or maybe a few less in order to leave a buffer at "0 miles". A configurable alternative could be to show "ideal miles" based on careful driving in ideal conditions; this could start at 100 miles with a new, fully charged battery.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

It would be good to if it automatically adjusted for outside temp. I don't believe I could drive 85 miles at 3 degrees F

 

[kubel]

Considering the impossibility of predicting future range without incorporating route, terrain, traffic, and weather information, I think it is ridiculous that the GOM figures so prominently.

If the engineers really wanted to, they could pull route information from the GPS (that will give them route, terrain, traffic, and speed in many areas). Combine that with previous driving history on the same route, and the GOM could give a much more accurate estimate. It wouldn't take a lot of work to make the LEAF predict where you are going and how you have driven on that route in the past in order to come up with a closer estimate.

 

[sgoyal]

cwerdna, thanks for a clear and very helpful reply. I will definitely try some of your suggestions and hope to predict the range with a bit more confidence. I'm a very tough consumer in general and expect a high degree of user friendliness from modern products.

Another question: My brother has a Chevy Volt that has an advertised 35 miles electric range. He has owned it for about 12K miles now and I've been impressed with the predictable elec. range on that car. He always gets around 32-35 miles of elec. normal driving. By normal I mean 70-80% freeway driving under 65 MPH, rest in the city. When that car indicates 2 miles remaining, the gas engine comes on in precisely 2 miles. It seems impressive.

Is there some fundamental difference in how the power is managed in these two cars or some other key difference in technology?

My apologies for the late reply, we were out of town on vacation with limited web access. Please see my replies inline.

No problem.

I'm getting my range numbers straight off the dashboard. Again, I feel that the average consumer isn't going to spend the time to figure out what the charging bars mean. Do they represent a linear or non-linear battery capacity etc. We can not dismiss the range on the dashboard as a guess-o-meter and let Nissan off the hook. Having said that I do pay attention to the bars, and on at least 3 occasions, I started out with 100% charge (all bars) and about 80 miles range showing, drove the car in conditions mentioned earlier and only had 5-6 bars left. Since I wrote my post, the dealer drove my car with 80% charge, drove the car 14 miles, and only had 5 bars left. Nissan still won't admit there is a problem.

The GOM sucks. As for the "average consumer", let's try to fix things in your case. We can't worry about everyone else who doesn't take the initiative and isn't an enthusiast while having a pre-'13 Leaf.
From http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=271853#p271853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, re: the GOM:

Please consult the range chart at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Basically, for a new battery w/no degradation, if you drove 60 mph on level ground (see all the caveats), average 3.9 miles/kwh and had 100% charge, you should be able to do ~82 miles until you hit turtle. TonyWilliams has done a bunch of range tests to confirm this is about right as there are ~21 kWh usable in a new full battery.

If you driving say 47 miles or 40 miles and have 5 or 6 fuel bars left, you are leaving a LOT of capacity unused. You can't say that you only get x miles of range until driven that distance and are down to turtle. Or, you could run to VLBW and add a "fudge factor". If you told me you could only do 45 miles of city or stop and go in the Bay Area and were down to turtle from a 100% charge, then you're talking.

On the '13+ Leafs, they finally added a % SoC indicator. That was a top request at a SF Bay Leafs meeting in December 2011 (Kadota-san (Chief Vehicle Engineer), Mark Perry and others were there, including engineers from Japan) and the source of a lot of drilling down from the Nissan quality guy about what was wrong w/the GOM. They made good on that. That meeting also happened to occur on approximately the Leaf's 1st birthday.

If you want to read about the meeting, start from http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6049&start=250" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I think there was another splinter thread which discussed that meeting (beyond Ingineer's turbine engine tow generator) but I can't find it right now.

My '13 Leaf shows 6 fuel bars right now and the % SoC reads 50%.

Are you charging to 100% or 80% or something else? Have you let the batteries balance?

I always charge my car 100% every night, no exceptions. I don't know what 'batteries balance' means.

Google for site:mynissanleaf.com battery balancing. On pre-MY13, AFAIK, if you charge to 100%, and then leave it plugged in for a few hours in that state, that should cause a balance.

Hmm… not sure about that, the car has been at the dealer twice for the range problem, they've never detected any problems with the HVAC system. There is a clear on/off button, so I'm certain it was off, not sure why Nissan would need another button. Again, Nissan can't expect people to think twice before using the heater to defrost the windshield etc. if the range drops significantly with heater usage, these issues need to be clearly explained to the consumer at the time of purchase.

There is no heater on/off button on the '11-'12 Leafs. I believe there an auto on/off as well as a turn the whole climate control system on/off button.

'13 Leafs have the above + dedicated heater on/off button.

For the pre-'13 Leafs, there are quirks (in the video I pointed to w/how the those earlier Leafs) in terms of heater operation. You may be unknowingly running it, further hurting range as the heater's power hungry. You can tell by looking at the energy usage screen.

As for dealer education, well, it's unfortunate but there are many dealers that are clueless.

Not sure where you saw that, but I'm using original stock tires. I didn't go back and check all my older posts however, its possible I may have written something confusing to make it look like I changed my tires.

Whoops. My bad. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/search.php?author_id=7529&sr=posts" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I didn't dig into the "Michelin MXM4 tires" post. Apparently that was from TonyWilliams' post.

As mentioned earlier, I'm looking at my range on the dash. I have not taken the time yet to use any other methods you mention. I find it surprising that we're putting bandaids on a bad design and covering it up for Nissan by inventing creative ways to measure the range.. If their range meter is crap, then shouldn't we get together and complain to Nissan? For the average non-tech user, this car does not deliver. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the helpful links, but I look at the Leaf as a half baked car that was pushed to consumers without any transparency or responsibility from Nissan, and they shouldn't get away with it. I've worked for Toyota for 6 years and a major Bay Area networking company for another 14, all on the New product development manufacturing groups, and can't imagine a product like this making it out the door.

You should, otherwise you'll will just continue to get needlessly frustrated. The Leaf pioneers already found the bandaid/proxy for % SoC LONG ago: gid-meters. As I said, Nissan did listen to our concerns (I was at that meeting) but unfortunately didn't release any update to provide % SoC to older Leafs. We've asked, many times.

As for Toyota, their 2nd gen Rav4 EV also has a GOM (which TonyWilliams says works a lot better) but also a non-granular "fuel gauge". Tony's range chart for that is at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=67" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It also has some other crazy quirks (e.g. http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=409" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and unfortunately, that Rav4 EV (aka "poor man's Tesla") is apparently very unreliable, which is unusual for a Toyota. Unfortunately, AFAIK, nobody's found an a equivalent of a gid value on the Rav4 EV's CAN bus/buses nor has Toyota added a % SoC indicator.

If you show up to a http://sfbayleafs.org/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; meeting, I'm sure some folks will be happy to show you their gid-meters or solutions involving Android phones and Bluetooth OBD2 dongles.

Off the to top of my head, if you're not going to do that above, at least forget the GOM. Charge to full, reset trip odometer, reset your miles/kwh gauge. And think of 20-21 kwh usable, but subtracting a few kwh as a buffer. Might help to bring a copy of Tony's range chart along too.

Also, get comfortable w/taking the car down to LBW (1st warning) and drive around near home (or L2 charging) until you hit VLBW (2nd warning). Head home/for charging for sure at VLBW at a low speed. I don't recommend you take it to turtle (I never have) as you won't be able to go far on that. You'll probably be surprised how far you can go.

Again, if you're driving 40 or 50 miles, leaving 5 bars, throwing up your hands saying "car has only 40 or 50 miles" of range, you're leaving a ton of capacity on the table.

As for your charging situation at work and contention there, can you at least get 1-2 hours at L2? Per Tony's range chart post, 16 amps @ 208 volts (common for commercial power, apparently) should had 11.1 miles per hour, assuming 4 miles/kwh consumption. That should help reduce range anxiety. Or, at 120 volts, you'd add 4 miles per hour.

At your work, is there some sort of internal list of EVs/PHEVs and contact info along w/some formal/informal etiquette? At my work, there are only 10 J1772 handles + a few 120 volt outlets, yet there are ~40 known EVs/PHEVs (+ a few mystery ones). We have such a list and people are pretty good about sharing, plugging in waiting cars, yielding to others in an emergency, swapping spaces, etc. Since I don't need much juice, have a 6 kW OBC (so I can replenish charge much quicker than you can), and leave late from work anyway, I just charge late in the day, after some folks have already left and/or most are done charging.

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Considering the impossibility of predicting future range without incorporating route, terrain, traffic, and weather information, I think it is ridiculous that the GOM figures so prominently.

If the engineers really wanted to, they could pull route information from the GPS (that will give them route, terrain, traffic, and speed in many areas). Combine that with previous driving history on the same route, and the GOM could give a much more accurate estimate. It wouldn't take a lot of work to make the LEAF predict where you are going and how you have driven on that route in the past in order to come up with a closer estimate.

Agree. At the least, take the GOM value and multiply by .7.

My GOM is basically always overestimating, and wildly so. My favorite is if, for example, I've done 15 miles in very cold temps and dropped 8 bars, so I have 4 left, and it's still pretending my range is 25 miles. So then 12 miles later it's giving a low battery warning. Getting into the car with temps way below freezing and it pretending I have 55 miles isn't just wrong, it's bordering on offensive.