DFW Metroplex

[adric22]

This is why their business model will fail. Of course, I'm not sure there's ANY business model that could make money on public EV charging :roll:

I agree their business model stinks. But I'm afraid if Leaf sales don't pick up they are all going to fail. While Volt and other PHEV users may use such stations when it is convenient, the primary users will be all-electric vehicles. And with the sales we're seeing right now, it is sort of a death sentence for the charging companies.

 

[shay]

In case you missed it, eVgo just added 5 more DCQC stations in DFW.

Sure wish they charged on a "per use" basis.

This is why their business model will fail. Of course, I'm not sure there's ANY business model that could make money on public EV charging :roll:

There is some debate on the pro and cons of evgo in this thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4249" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

 

[vrwl]

This is why their business model will fail. Of course, I'm not sure there's ANY business model that could make money on public EV charging :roll:

Oh, I'd definitely pay for a QC if it was available on a per use basis. As it stands now, if I can't get to where I need to go with my Leaf due to distance, I borrow my husband's Prius for the day. If I could QC, we'd both be happier. :lol:

 

[garygTx]

Sure wish they charged on a "per use" basis.

While they don't do that, they have a network only plan that is $39.00 per month for unlimited L3 charging. While it may not make sense in the future, it does now, as they are waiving the fee until they have 35 stations in the DFW area. They don't mention the plan on their website, but if you contact the DFW rep ([email protected]) he can get you on that plan. You have to commit for 1 year, so I don't know if that entire time would be free.

 

[vrwl]

Sure wish they charged on a "per use" basis.

While they don't do that, they have a network only plan that is $39.00 per month for unlimited L3 charging. While it may not make sense in the future, it does now, as they are waiving the fee until they have 35 stations in the DFW area. They don't mention the plan on their website, but if you contact the DFW rep ([email protected]) he can get you on that plan. You have to commit for 1 year, so I don't know if that entire time would be free.

Still not worth it to me... I might use QC once a week. That's some mighty pricey electricity for $10 a pop.

 

[Pipcecil]

While it is expensive, I have quite enjoyed being part of eVgo currently.

I cannot make it past IH 635 (more closer to IH 30 now with my battery degredation) roundtrip. I have two family members (my brother in law, wife and niece/nephew and my sister, husband, and two nephews) all in the Allen area plus not to mention the shopping, friends, and other stuff in Dallas and North (I live way south). For me, I must QC to go into Dallas or above, and lately, QC twice (uggh I know, battery degredation has been harsh on my drives).

Without it, you have to calculate gasoline usage for those trips (bleh). Add to the fact we got a Level 2 with installation all rolled into it (i.e. not paying the $1,500-2,200 for one at the beginning) and the deal ends up being more of a winner (well for me and my use at least). On the additional side, since Blink is starting to charge for their station uses, the economics ends up being even better to just QC or to hook up to level 2 at eVgo than to connect to a per use Blink station.

A good example for my wife and I is going to see a Rangers game. I can park at my work (North Central Texas Council of Governments) at the blink stations, pay per hour ($1-$2 depending on your "plan") and walk to the stadium or park at the eVgo station (Walgreens) and go to the game. Both are the same walking distance. I find myself doing that more often or bypassing the close blink station to just QC on the way home.

Now if they could ever get the plans going by paying for home electricity I would be golden (uggh I HATE being part of a co-op, unregulated electricty system my butt), it would more than pay for itself. Their is something along the pipes for a Volt plan (well I guess it would be a Level 2 plan), and I am curious how that will be implemented, especially for the Volt since you would have to compete with SPX for a charger (SPX charger is only $500!) and charging for $1 dollar an hour with the Volt (the cheapest rate with Blink) is equal to the cost of one gallon of gas (both would be $4 bucks) and both would travel the same distance.

I do think they will need to secure some way to tap into the Volt/PiP/FFEV/CMax market quickly. With extremely low sales of the Leaf now and abysmal sales of the mitsu i, the DC charging that is the best part of eVgo is not as important. They will need to have a competative offerings for non-QC cars to draw people as users away from Blink's model. I think it will just require more stations overall, even if they build just Level 2's versus their Level 2/DC charger combo (which, I expect, is expensive).

I do expect eVgo to stick around for awhile, they have a large backer (NRG Energy) which is the parent of Reliant and other energy companies, so they could look at eVgo as a media advertising versus an investment until usage picks up in the future.

FYI this weekend, I plan to use the good'ol belt line station twice since I am going to birthdays for a newphew from each family. weeeeee...

 

[vrwl]

Yep, you definitely do a LOT more driving than I do. I'm self employed, and so I usually only need to do two longer drives each month. One to a shipping supply company near DFW airport and one to an inventory supplier off of I-30 near Big Town Mall. Other than those two longer trips, everything else I do is in the McKinney/Frisco/Plano area.

I haven't tried to do the "long" trips yet in the Leaf, last time I had to do one of those runs, I used my husband's car for the day. But I need to give it a try to see if it's manageable even if I have to stop for an hour at a L2 charger along the way. According to the Carwings Route Planner, I should be able to do both routes on a 100% charge. Do you know if the Carwings Route Planner is accurate?

 

[Stanton]

I've used the CarWings route planner on a couple of occasions with good success; I also use it to send the info to the Leaf (something I still think is cool). I don't make many long trips (and I don't have--or want--a QC port), but the few I do have consistently made it (my Leaf hasn't stranded me yet)!

 

[Stanton]

Went to charge at a Blink station in Watter's Creek (we ate dinner at Grimaldi's) until I saw it was no longer free! In fact, after checking the Blink map it looks like nothing in Dallas is free anymore, even places like Twin Peaks where I thought the restaurant was going to keep charging free as a marketing tool to attract customers. Guess that's the end of my "opportunity charging"!

 

[Cheezmo]

Yup, it is over.

Had my Volt at Five Guys the other day. I had signed up for the free membership to get $1.00/hour charging. But I was there for 35 minutes, got charged for a full hour so it basically cost me $2/hour which is way more expensive than gas!

I would think you would have to be pretty desperate to sit at one of those chargers long enough to get a worthwhile amount of range and pay such a high premium over home charging for it.

I think the L2 charging networks will collapse pretty quickly unless the businesses subsidize them or gas prices go way up.

Having a Volt makes the math pretty easy.

4-5 hours of charging = 40 miles
Volt gets 40 MPG.

If 4-5 hours of charging costs more than a gallon of gas it doesn't make any sense. At home, huge win, $0.70 for the full charge or about $0.15/hour. On the road, needs to be $.75/hour or less at current gas prices.

 

[Cheezmo]

The other thing to watch out for on Blink charging stations is that they charge for the time connected not just the time charging.

So, if it fully charges you better get back and unplug or you are still paying.

 

[Stanton]

I would think you would have to be pretty desperate to sit at one of those chargers long enough to get a worthwhile amount of range and pay such a high premium over home charging for it.

I think the L2 charging networks will collapse pretty quickly unless the businesses subsidize them or gas prices go way up.

You hit the nail on the head: don't the folks who install/maintain charging networks (like Blink) realize this? Or is the business case so flawed that it's hopeless? At some point, will a business (like a restaurant, mall, etc.) choose to subsidize the charging costs (e.g. free) and therefore the network or remove the EV charging incentive as a marketing tool?

 

[mkjayakumar]

Again, I dont think one should expect public EV charging to be cheaper than gas. Because the primary mode of charging for an EV is at home, around 90%, and public charging is only if there is an occasional need. Much similar to drinking coffee at Starbucks vs at home.

 

[Cheezmo]

Hopefully it will compare more to public Wifi.

Cheap at home. They tried charging for it at Starbucks (and still do at "captive" locations like airports, etc.). But the free to attract customers seems to be winning out there.

If they don't do that no one will use it and it will die on the vine.

 

[mkjayakumar]

.. except that the infrastructure to setup a wifi router is pittance compared to setting up a DC charger, and the operational costs for a hundred customers using the wifi is close to zero. Again, not so for the EV chargers.

And if you add that to the fact that, every customer has a smart phone, laptop that can take advantage of the wifi service, whereas a tiny fraction, perhaps less than 1% of their daily customer traffic may end up using the charger.

With those handicaps, we should be grateful that some establishments even have those in their lots. Complaining about the charging costs would get us nowhere.. until such time there is a critical mass and it makes sense for the establishments to simply attract more traffic through their stores.

 

[Cheezmo]

So you are suggesting we pay whatever they want just to keep them alive?

My complaint is that the prices they are charging will cause them to fail.
If they can't charge less and succeed then they will fail anyway.

But if no one pays it, it doesn't matter how high the price is, they make nothing.

If you want to send me $20, I promise to only use it for Blink charging. When I run out I'll ask for another $20 if you want to subsidize them. Win win right! I get to charge for free and you get to support their overpriced infrastructure!

But seriously, the only reason I'm complaining is because I would LOVE to use those charging stations and frequent the businesses that have them. BUT, if it is not economical for me to use them I won't. In fact I will avoid those businesses because I'd feel silly going there an NOT using the charging station.

 

[Pipcecil]

Yea, the pricing mechanism is a little lopsided. For the Volt it really is about break even. 4 hours to charge = $4.00 (at their best rate) for about 40 miles (give or take, we usually get 48+). Car gets ~40 mpg (slightly less, but lets make it easy), so thats one gallon of gas, and premium is usually around $4.00 right now. Unless gas goes higher, its just a break even. For a PiP its worse, so it's gas all the way. Other plug-ins may be better if their gas mileage is worse than the Volts.

I think Blink will see a more significant drop in their charger usage and behavior, which is what they want to track anyways. I did a significant amount of opportunity charging, now, I won't unless I need it, but thats...well never because I can't rely on those chargers to not be ICED!!!!!!!!!!! So, to me, it has negated all use of those chargers. Well, at least they will get the data they need to determine pricing, etc. At least be happy we aren't in Austin. Austin Energy made a deal with CarCharging and ChargePoint. All chargers in Austin (there are no blinks) are $2.49 an hour! Ouch! Talk about overpriced.

Now, I will pay if, for instance, its a protected upfront spot at a venue like a rangers or cowboys game. Thats worth it for me, but, unfortuantely, there are none out there at those stadiums like that (boo).

Finally, I used to go out of my way to frequent places that had chargers to support those restaurants, etc. Now, nope, it will just cost me more - so its not worth it.

 

[Cheezmo]

Actually, I was in Austin last week and they are $2.00/hour. My account showed some kind of .25/hr "loyalty credit" so it actually came to $1.75 so still way too much.

 

[Stanton]

But seriously, the only reason I'm complaining is because I would LOVE to use those charging stations and frequent the businesses that have them. BUT, if it is not economical for me to use them I won't. In fact I will avoid those businesses because I'd feel silly going there and NOT using the charging station.

+1 Glad I'm not the only one that will feel silly NOT charging at a public station. I mean, wouldn't the layman say "what good is that thing if the people that actually NEED it don't use it?" :roll:

 

[Pipcecil]

Unfortunately I have to pay the blink cost every day. Because of range loss, my car no longer makes it to and from work, and the only way to charge is via blink at my work. So its about 2 hours of charging (2 bucks) and then off the plug so I don't get charged more. I will miss the pre-cooling I used to do when it was free before I left for home..../sigh. I guess the cost is something people that drive toll roads daily do, but that doesn't mean I have to like it :?

What vexes me most, I could do without the charging if I still had good capacity and have not lost 2 bars. I guess I could try so hard core conservative driving and not pay, but is it worth charging to 100% all the time versus 80% for battery life at the cost of $2 a day?