Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[EdmondLeaf]

To answer someone's question above: No, I don't know anyone else who might have a GID meter in the Sacramento Area. I only had one to borrow for two days when I had Tony's LEAF here at home.

I measured 256 GIDs on the first morning and 259 (which is what I am reporting in signature) on the second morning (6/28/12), each shortly (1-2 hours) after a 100% charge complete message. I do not have a baseline to report on our LEAF, I can simply make the (bad) assumption that it should have had a 281 reading when new. It was delivered in January 2011 (winter) and was on the dealer's lot no more than 30 hours, and likely not charged to 100% for very long. We have never QC'd, but frequently charge to 100% (half the number of charges?), and it has sat at 100% a couple dozen times for more than 8-12 hours :-( and in two of those cases for 24-30 hours. Few if any of those occurences were at above 75F ambient. Turtled once, almost turtled another time, LBW several dozens of times (we live 9 miles from the freeway, so 18 miles round-trip is "wasted"), and VLBW a couple of dozen times. Frequently driven 60-70 miles/day. Driven and charged practically every day.

Tony's LEAF showed 231 GIDs after a 10/12 bar charge and 279 GIDs after 12/12 on that same second morning (3,462 miles on the Odo, 1-2 months old) under obviously the same weather conditions (both LEAFs parked outside overnight). Both of those measurements were 1/2 to 1 hour after the respective notification (which I believe is delayed a little).

So ... who in the Sacramento Area does have a GID meter and can add some results ?

I wish I can show such GID number after so much time and so many miles. Our high temp averages similar, but Sacramento Area low for the summer months about 12F lower which can only indicate that lack of cooling when needed really eats battery capacity. My friend after 2 mo 2 KM are already @ 264

 

[palmermd]

So ... who in the Sacramento Area does have a GID meter and can add some results ?

Where is my LeafScan?...help me EVSEUpgrade!

 

[opossum]

A crew from KPHO CBS 5 visited our home this evening, along with the owners of the LEAF with 3 lost bars. We were interviewed, and she expects the story to air on the news very soon... possibly Tuesday 7/17. I'll post details as soon as I get word that the story is done and will be aired. Hopefully the story will go on their website, too!

That's right. We are not taking this lying down!...

 

[HXGuy]

Damn ****'s about to get real!

Did you already try and get Nissan to do something about this or did you decide to go directly to the news first?

 

[Boomer23]

Has anyone used some of the upper level Nissan contacts that fellow forum members have to actually speak with Nissan execs, bypassing the built-in levels of buffering that corporations have to isolate them? Several people have written here about how difficult it is to get bad news escalated to where it gets heard by people with the power to actually do something.

Clearly someone at Nissan is aware of the issue, since blogs have gotten corporate-speak responses from company spokespeople. But has anyone with a personal concern actually spoken with a Nissan exec with any power?

 

[leafkabob]

Has anyone used some of the upper level Nissan contacts that fellow forum members have to actually speak with Nissan execs, bypassing the built-in levels of buffering that corporations have to isolate them? Several people have written here about how difficult it is to get bad news escalated to where it gets heard by people with the power to actually do something.

Clearly someone at Nissan is aware of the issue, since blogs have gotten corporate-speak responses from company spokespeople. But has anyone with a personal concern actually spoken with a Nissan exec with any power?

Boomer I have been hoping that someone would offer up their "upper level Nissan contact" during this lengthy discussion but have not seen anything. Anybody out there have a phone number or e-mail address they care to share? PM?

 

[opossum]

Did you already try and get Nissan to do something about this or did you decide to go directly to the news first?

Oh, we most certainly tried to play nice. Nissan has seen our car 3 times with one or two lost bars. For the owner who has lost 3 bars, it's more like half a dozen times. We have also performed the first several steps of the warranty process outlined by Nissan. Now we are introducing some steps of our own. :lol:

 

[opossum]

Has anyone used some of the upper level Nissan contacts that fellow forum members have to actually speak with Nissan execs, bypassing the built-in levels of buffering that corporations have to isolate them? Several people have written here about how difficult it is to get bad news escalated to where it gets heard by people with the power to actually do something.

Clearly someone at Nissan is aware of the issue, since blogs have gotten corporate-speak responses from company spokespeople. But has anyone with a personal concern actually spoken with a Nissan exec with any power?

Until this morning, when I saw that some of this contact information had been PMed to me, we didn't have any contacts of that type. But I don't think that matters much. It is blatantly obvious each time we talk to a dealer's LEAF technician that he has been in communication with LEAF technical contacts and they have directed the technician's responses to us. In at least one case, they flew representatives to Phoenix and they were AT the dealership while our car was being evaluated.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this is not going to go well

 

[opossum]

this is not going to go well

Some of us on the leading edge of capacity loss are fast approaching the point where we will no longer be able to use the car for daily commutes. Once we reach that point and park the car, we lose all of the cost savings and convert it into a really expensive museum piece for the garage. We have gone beyond the point at which we can wait for Nissan to come clean and "do the right thing," which by their standards just means making shareholders happy. Sorry, but just sit back, buckle up, and enjoy this ride. We'll have more drama to share soon...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this is not going to go well

Some of us on the leading edge of capacity loss are fast approaching the point where we will no longer be able to use the car for daily commutes. Once we reach that point and park the car, we lose all of the cost savings and convert it into a really expensive museum piece for the garage. We have gone beyond the point at which we can wait for Nissan to come clean and "do the right thing," which by their standards just means making shareholders happy. Sorry, but just sit back, buckle up, and enjoy this ride. We'll have more drama to share soon...

i agree you are in a tough position and it sounds like you have explored all avenues of a possible solution with Nissan Corporate (dealers are a waste of time on this issue, they simply do not have the power) and still have no plan of action from them.

maybe this is what they need to take action.

 

[xtremeflyer]

I admittedly haven't read every post in this thread, I usually only check here once a day and sometimes don't keep up, but...

Has anyone contacted Brian Carolin? Although he's Sales and Marketing, he is the one that got me and quite a few others their vehicles when there was the order sequencing snafu. Maybe if people start to contact him and let them know they have to sell their cars and they aren't recommending the Leaf to others because there hasn't been any communication, he can help and/or get you to the right people. Just a thought. I haven't lost a bar yet, although i've seen about 10% loss, so I don't feel it's right for me to contact yet. Not until I need to use their Roadside assistance on a daily basis to get home.

Brian Carolin
Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing
[email protected]
(615) 459-1963

 

[thankyouOB]

...right for me to contact yet. Not until I need to use their Roadside assistance on a daily basis to get home.

Brian Carolin
Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing
[email protected]
(615) 459-1963

ha ha.
good one.

 

[Stoaty]

this is not going to go well

Yes, but for Nissan or opossum?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

this is not going to go well

Yes, but for Nissan or opossum?

?? who knows? my statement was for EVs in general. its just more fuel in the fire but what can you do if you have exhausted everything you can do?

 

[opossum]

?? who knows? my statement was for EVs in general. its just more fuel in the fire but what can you do if you have exhausted everything you can do?

One of the questions the reporter asked me was how I thought this might impact the greater electric vehicle movement, and whether I was concerned about that possible impact. I explained that it was definitely a dilemma, but that we were running out of options and had invested a lot of money in this vehicle. There is no telling whether that particular question will make it into the final story, as they interviewed for several minutes for a very short piece.

 

[RickS]

By the way just checked my version number, still 3NA0B so nothing new and sneaky installed.

I did a full charge last night and showed 105 miles in eco this morning! The car has not shown anything near 100 since picking it up at the dealer so this is potentially promising. It did drop a good bit during the drive, but I was driving really fast on the freeway so it was about what I would expect for 70mph. I feel that the range indicated is a lot closer to what it was before... at least for today.

I am now very interested to see if anyone else can get a dealer to reset their BMS data and see if the behavior is copied.

I dropped someone off at the airport this morning and on the way back stopped by Ecotality on McKinley to make sure the Blink's worked since only one was showing up. They all appear to be operational so we are definitely on for tomorrow.

 

[mkjayakumar]

Some smartass wrote a large comment piece on this Leaf's battery degradation in John Peterson's latest fart (dated today) on EVs and Tesla. He essentially copied verbatim many of the comments from here to substantiate his case. Now I say the **** has really hit the roof.

Edit: I am not able to find that article in Seeking Alpha at this time, which was I was reading just a few hours ago. Maybe the site owner yanked it ?

 

[mwalsh]

Edit: I am not able to find that article in Seeking Alpha at this time, which was I was reading just a few hours ago. Maybe the site owner yanked it ?

That would likely be this:

http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/227454-john-petersen/849361-musings-from-the-ev-black-knight" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveEV]

Edit: I am not able to find that article in Seeking Alpha at this time, which was I was reading just a few hours ago. Maybe the site owner yanked it ?

This is what you're looking for: http://seekingalpha.com/instablog/227454-john-petersen/849361-musings-from-the-ev-black-knight#comment-7442351" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Edit: mwalsh beat me to it! But this link goes straight to the comment you were referring to...