Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[jspearman]

I was curious about what happened to our car, so I just looked up our VIN.

http://www.motorcarsofnashville.com/printbrochure-2011-nissan-leaf-4dr_hb_sl~e-used-full-10465041.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a full charge the GOM shows both 80 miles and 74 miles in the photos, so I'm guessing Nissan didn't replace any cells since that's roughly what it would show when we sold it back. The car ended up at auction in TN just this month, so I'm guessing Nissan brought it home to give it a look and then let an auto auction have it. I feel sorry for the folks who bought it and found it wouldn't come close to 80 miles, but hopefully their needs are covered.

 

[Joeviocoe]

I was curious about what happened to our car, so I just looked up our VIN.

http://www.motorcarsofnashville.com/printbrochure-2011-nissan-leaf-4dr_hb_sl~e-used-full-10465041.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a full charge the GOM shows both 80 miles and 74 miles in the photos, so I'm guessing Nissan didn't replace any cells since that's roughly what it would show when we sold it back. The car ended up at auction in TN just this month, so I'm guessing Nissan brought it home to give it a look and then let an auto auction have it. I feel sorry for the folks who bought it and found it wouldn't come close to 80 miles, but hopefully their needs are covered.

And it may make sense to move these 'Heat Casualties' to cooler climate for their second owner. Rather than spend the money to replace the cells.

The depreciation of value changes drastically depending on where in the country it is resold. A buyer in a colder and more urban city, won't much care if the Leaf has only 9 bars left. They would rather just get the moderate discount.
Just like southern cities that have more suburban sprawl, would not look twice at a Leaf that took that much capacity loss so early on.

This is a paradigm that is unlike any other Automobile in history. Never before has a vehicle's value been so closely tied to geographical region.

 

[Joeviocoe]

JN1AZ0CP4BT002227 is a 3 bar loser that used to be in Mesa, AZ but now it is for sale in IL at a Nissan dealer
27,191 miles and they are asking $16,000.

heh, it's a CARFAX 1 owner vehicle :lol: :roll: :!:

Honestly I'd be tempted to buy it if the price were a little cheaper. It's a beautiful car, the 27k miles don't scare me and the 3 bars lost isn't a total dealbreaker for me but it is enough to make me hesitant to shell out too much.

It is a bit of a gamble to be sure. At the right price, it would be wise to purchase now.

You have to speculate what the cost of a replacement pack will be, when Nissan starts selling them direct to consumers. In the future, if a replacement pack turns out to be much less expensive than predicted, Leafs like this one, will suddenly be worth a lot more.

 

[surfingslovak]

In the future, if a replacement pack turns out to be much less expensive than predicted, Leafs like this one, will suddenly be worth a lot more.

Yes, that's certainly something to hope for. A lot of things depend on pack replacement prices and the logistics of the process. Nissan likely realizes that too.

This is a paradigm that is unlike any other Automobile in history. Never before has a vehicle's value been so closely tied to geographical region.

Very interesting observation, I think you might be onto something

 

[phxsmiley]

Disappointed to report that I lost my third capacity bar, and we haven't even hit the really hot months yet! I could see the Gids steadily falling over the last few weeks, but I realize some of that is seasonal.

Please update the Wiki page:
26797 Miles, 1 year, 9 Months Old

 

[Joeviocoe]

Disappointed to report that I lost my third capacity bar, and we haven't even hit the really hot months yet! I could see the Gids steadily falling over the last few weeks, but I realize some of that is seasonal.

Please update the Wiki page:
26797 Miles, 1 year, 9 Months Old

Done.

 

[TonyWilliams]

JN1AZ0CP4BT002227 is a 3 bar loser that used to be in Mesa, AZ but now it is for sale in IL at a Nissan dealer
27,191 miles and they are asking $16,000.

Start at $12k and see how firm that price is. Go back more than one day, late at night just before closing, preferably the last day of the month (bonuses and "spiffs" are usually based on monthly sales).

Then, make sure it gets enough heat to pop that 4th bar for a warranty claim on battery capacity.

 

[mark1313]

[Looks like we will have a contest to the 4th bar, we have almost idenicle miles]Disappointed to report that I lost my third capacity bar, and we haven't even hit the really hot months yet! I could see the Gids steadily falling over the last few weeks, but I realize some of that is seasonal.

Please update the Wiki page:
26797 Miles, 1 year, 9 Months Old[/quote]

 

[Joeviocoe]

Looks like we will have a contest to the 4th bar, we have almost idenicle miles

Disappointed to report that I lost my third capacity bar, and we haven't even hit the really hot months yet! I could see the Gids steadily falling over the last few weeks, but I realize some of that is seasonal.
Please update the Wiki page:
26797 Miles, 1 year, 9 Months Old

Mark, have you lost your 3rd bar already? The wiki is not yet tracking that.

 

[TomT]

That's interesting since under Lemon Laws it is illegal to resell the vehicle in most states without disclosing such. But then, I suppose this is not technically a lemon law situation... Still, it is poor ethics on Nissan's part to dump it back on someone else without replacing the battery...

I was curious about what happened to our car, so I just looked up our VIN.

http://www.motorcarsofnashville.com/printbrochure-2011-nissan-leaf-4dr_hb_sl~e-used-full-10465041.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a full charge the GOM shows both 80 miles and 74 miles in the photos, so I'm guessing Nissan didn't replace any cells since that's roughly what it would show when we sold it back. The car ended up at auction in TN just this month, so I'm guessing Nissan brought it home to give it a look and then let an auto auction have it. I feel sorry for the folks who bought it and found it wouldn't come close to 80 miles, but hopefully their needs are covered.

 

[smkettner]

That's interesting since under Lemon Laws it is illegal to resell the vehicle in most states. But then, I suppose this is not technically a lemon law situation... Still, it is poor ethics on Nissan's part to dump it back on someone else without replacing the battery...

I was curious about what happened to our car, so I just looked up our VIN.

http://www.motorcarsofnashville.com/printbrochure-2011-nissan-leaf-4dr_hb_sl~e-used-full-10465041.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a full charge the GOM shows both 80 miles and 74 miles in the photos, so I'm guessing Nissan didn't replace any cells since that's roughly what it would show when we sold it back. The car ended up at auction in TN just this month, so I'm guessing Nissan brought it home to give it a look and then let an auto auction have it. I feel sorry for the folks who bought it and found it wouldn't come close to 80 miles, but hopefully their needs are covered.

Why is it unethical to sell a used LEAF? Capacity bar gives discloser and there is a warranty.
If someone wants a new battery they better buy a new vehicle.

 

[OrientExpress]

Cars bought back by a manufacturer can be resold in all 50 states, but the title of the car is marked as "salvage".

 

[Joeviocoe]

That's interesting since under Lemon Laws it is illegal to resell the vehicle in most states. But then, I suppose this is not technically a lemon law situation... Still, it is poor ethics on Nissan's part to dump it back on someone else without replacing the battery...

I was curious about what happened to our car, so I just looked up our VIN.

http://www.motorcarsofnashville.com/printbrochure-2011-nissan-leaf-4dr_hb_sl~e-used-full-10465041.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With a full charge the GOM shows both 80 miles and 74 miles in the photos, so I'm guessing Nissan didn't replace any cells since that's roughly what it would show when we sold it back. The car ended up at auction in TN just this month, so I'm guessing Nissan brought it home to give it a look and then let an auto auction have it. I feel sorry for the folks who bought it and found it wouldn't come close to 80 miles, but hopefully their needs are covered.

Thinking from the automakers perspective... the battery is a consumable item that has a visible counter.

A normal ICE vehicle only has relatively low cost consumables, so 'certified used' cars can replace everything. And you are left with only the normal wear and tear of the engine and drivetrain, which they prospective buyers can gauge only generally with the odometer reading.
An EV has two counters really, the Battery Capacity gauge for the Pack and the odometer for the rest of the car.

This situation is not a Lemon Law type deal. "Lemon" refers to something that looks sweet on the outside, but hides a bitter truth inside.
With the battery capacity gauge being obvious to any buyer... there is nothing really hidden.

Now, if a Leaf battery had significantly poor range for some reason, but had 12 bars... THAT'S a Lemon!
(of course range is harder to prove with a single test drive, which is why I am pushing for dealerships to conduct standard EPA 5 cycle tests for any consumer concerns)

 

[jspearman]

Cars bought back by a manufacturer can be resold in all 50 states, but the title of the car is marked as "salvage".

It wasn't marked as salvage, since it wasn't officially bought back under the lemon law. Wouldn't be worth 18K as salvage.

I don't think it's unethical to sell these cars, but I do feel it's unethical not to explain the situation the car was in and what the new buyer can reasonably expect. I would imagine in Nashville that this car won't lose its third bar for a long while, but no one can be certain. I do know the car wasn't driven much in the past four months, and at least in photos it's been sitting with 100% SOC at the dealer. Not good.

The Carfax does show that Nissan repurchased the car, so a new buyer isn't completely blind here, but how would they know what questions to ask unless they had dopne a lot of research on this site? I'm definitely a more cautious, educated consumer than I was two years ago.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Disappointed to report that I lost my third capacity bar, and we haven't even hit the really hot months yet! I could see the Gids steadily falling over the last few weeks, but I realize some of that is seasonal.

Please update the Wiki page:
26797 Miles, 1 year, 9 Months Old

I have to say I am not sad to hear about it. I am VERY anxious to see how the battery warranty works.

*will it be a long drawn out process forcing the customer to deal with a very degraded range for several weeks while getting the pack replaced?

* will there be haggling, brow beating, "3rd" degree questioning?

* Is there a ready supply of replacement packs or will it be like some parts that have a relatively high failure rate that took months to get?

imm, after the warranty issue is accepted, the replacement process should take a week or less, preferably MUCH less.

keep us posted!

 

[Joeviocoe]

...
The Carfax does show that Nissan repurchased the car, so a new buyer isn't completely blind here, but how would they know what questions to ask unless they had dopne a lot of research on this site? I'm definitely a more cautious, educated consumer than I was two years ago.

Unfortunately, EVERY EV BUYER needs to well educated, for the time being. Until EVs are more commonplace, their substantial difference will require buyers to be more aware.

 

[TRONZ]

Ratz! Lost my first bar this morning.

 

[TomT]

Well, we assume there is a capacity warranty since we have not actually seen anything official in writing for the 2011 or 2012 yet...

That's interesting since under Lemon Laws it is illegal to resell the vehicle in most states without disclosing such. But then, I suppose this is not technically a lemon law situation... Still, it is poor ethics on Nissan's part to dump it back on someone else without replacing the battery...

Why is it unethical to sell a used LEAF? Capacity bar gives discloser and there is a warranty.If someone wants a new battery they better buy a new vehicle.

 

[dhanson865]

JN1AZ0CP4BT002227 is a 3 bar loser that used to be in Mesa, AZ but now it is for sale in IL at a Nissan dealer
27,191 miles and they are asking $16,000.

Start at $12k and see how firm that price is. Go back more than one day, late at night just before closing, preferably the last day of the month (bonuses and "spiffs" are usually based on monthly sales).

Then, make sure it gets enough heat to pop that 4th bar for a warranty claim on battery capacity.

Yeah, I'm not driving 500 miles to make an offer on an AZ leaf that made it to IL. If they ship it to a TN dealer I still wouldn't drive across state (TN is a 9+ hour drive tip to tip).

There is one in Athens, GA that is less than 300 miles from me with all 12 bars left for only $2,000 more than that 3 bar loser. I think 3 bars is worth more than $2k to me.*

I just mentioned it because it is the cheapest leaf on autotrader right now and it is on the battery degradation wiki list.

I guess they shipped it northeast (to north central US) to give it the opposite climate vs what it saw in the SW.

I kind of assumed NOC8H18 would find it interesting as well since it was his car but I see now he hasn't posted since fall 2012.

* I suppose that says something about my guess for replacement cost including labor/shipping. A 12 bar leaf will probably never lose enough that I'd worry about replacing the battery, but a 9 bar leaf from AZ might and I don't want to have to shell out thousands to replace a battery on a relatively new used car.

 

[omkar]

After clocking just over 33k otherwise trouble-free miles. and a few weeks short of 2 yrs, I lost my first battery capacity bar. I’ve noticed steadily decreasing range and declining gids over the past 6 mos. My gids are up (down) to 232-235 at 100% (82.5-83.6). While from OC, I spend the weekdays ~20 mi. inland where it's often 5-10°F higher on the warmer days, including a couple of 90-100°F days already here in the past few weeks.

Since last summer's wilting reports, I've used a few battery-friendly practices. Who knows if I would've otherwise lost the first bar sooner. I like to think it helped at least a little. Nevertheless, I suspect I'm part of the pre-Summer 2013 BCB-losing batch.

1st bar at 33k miles? That is pretty great! I believe we are in the same city and I lost my 1st bar at ~19k miles.

Sad to report that I lost my second bar yesterday at 29,500 miles (~2 years, 5 months).