Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[smkettner]

2015 will be late. I see a Tesla by then.
Unless capacity was to increase 50% or more and swap for less than $4,000..... not sure I can stay with LEAF.

 

[smkettner]

Reporting a lost bar at 27k and 19 months is about the same as reporting the tires are getting worn down.
JMHO
Now the guys in AZ that report three even four bars missing in half the time have something to report.

+1

Besides, that is what the annual battery report does anyway.
No point to make a claim unless you are pursuing a buyback.

 

[91040]

It gives Nissan data points prior to the annual battery report (8 mos. in my case) and lets them know that the consumer is aware and concerned.

Reporting a lost bar at 27k and 19 months is about the same as reporting the tires are getting worn down.
JMHO
Now the guys in AZ that report three even four bars missing in half the time have something to report.

+1

Besides, that is what the annual battery report does anyway.
No point to make a claim unless you are pursuing a buyback.

 

[TomT]

Barring some incredible epiphany from Nissan, my next EV will definitely not be a Nissan when my lease is up. I don't expect to see any major changes in the Leaf before 2015 and more likely 2016...

2015 will be late. I see a Tesla by then.
Unless capacity was to increase 50% or more and swap for less than $4,000..... not sure I can stay with LEAF.

 

[planet4ever]

I think the 2014 will have different battery chemistry.

My guess is more like 2015...

Agree. I expect the 2014 to be about as much different from the 2013 as the 2012 was from the 2011. You can't expect major changes every year, and the 2013 has major changes under the hood. I predict big battery changes in either 2015 or 2016. You think that will be too late, Tom, but I don't think Tesla will be able to come down anywhere close to the LEAF price point. If you've got the money, go for a Tesla. The rest of us just need to be happy that we got something, and wait in nirvana line for a few more years.

Ray

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I think the 2014 will have different battery chemistry.

My guess is more like 2015...

Agree. I expect the 2014 to be about as much different from the 2013 as the 2012 was from the 2011. You can't expect major changes every year, and the 2013 has major changes under the hood. I predict big battery changes in either 2015 or 2016. You think that will be too late, Tom, but I don't think Tesla will be able to come down anywhere close to the LEAF price point. If you've got the money, go for a Tesla. The rest of us just need to be happy that we got something, and wait in nirvana line for a few more years.

Ray

Well, I will go on record as hoping you are both wrong. I think we need to get away from the thinking of the EV as a regular car that will go thru the regular upgrade cycles. Like the heated seats and the faster L2 charging coming along quicker than normal, I think other innovations based on customer demand will as well.

What we have seen so far does fall into "that is what we should have done in the first place" category but I think the other things like better range and what not has been in the plan for a long time as well but there were other issues like cost to contend with first. I have to think the cost issue was two sided with cost to manufacturing and tech advances. Bringing manufacturing onshore so quickly (how long did it take to start building Priuses in the US?) I believe to be part of the cost solution and the price cuts in 2013 means the ability to now institute higher priced options that would include a range boost after the factory has completed its ramp up which is obviously still in progress.

I see all this as a fairly well planned regimented build up to announcement of multiple pack options for 2014...

 

[Pipcecil]

I think the leaf will come up a bit in range and the Tesla down a bit in price (for their new family car).

My predictions are about an EPA 100ish mile LEAF by 2016. Similar to the RAV4 EV (so really like a 120ish range). All for about the price we are paying now (maybe slightly lower, but not much). As for the Tesla, I think it will be ~200 mile range (probably per "tesla 55 mph") and may be rated in the upper 160-180's per EPA. It will be supercharge capatible and the STARTING price for the base model (probably even smaller range, maybe 120-150) will be ~30-35k AFTER tax credits (meaning a start price of a FFEV or Volt). Their target is the luxury - so BMW, Audi, Mercedes. Those easily start mid 40's or 50's.

 

[jhm614]

Lost my third bar this a.m. 41792 miles. Would someone update the wiki for me?

 

[Volusiano]

Lost my third bar this a.m. 41792 miles. Would someone update the wiki for me?

Don't know whether to say "Sorry to hear" or say congratulations for being 1 bar closer to being able to make a battery warranty claim with Nissan.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Lost my third bar this a.m. 41792 miles. Would someone update the wiki for me?

Don't know whether to say "Sorry to hear" or say congratulations for being 1 bar closer to being able to make a battery warranty claim with Nissan.

Well, he needs to lose [edit: one more bar] in 18,208 miles. I think a nice toasty Phoenix sun will help him out.

 

[kolmstead]

Tony, I don't understand your requirement to lose five bars before warranty kicks in. Andy Palmer said:
----------
"Under an expanded New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, Nissan will protect against capacity loss in LEAF batteries that fall below nine bars, of the available 12 bars displayed on the vehicle’s battery capacity gauge, for the first five years or 60,000 miles in the United States, whichever comes first. For LEAF vehicles whose batteries have fallen below nine bars during this period, Nissan will repair or replace the battery under warranty with a new or remanufactured battery to restore capacity at or above a minimum of nine bars."
---------

To me, that clearly indicates that loss of four bars (eight remaining) would trigger warranty coverage. Let's not make the requirements tougher than they really are... I expect to use that warranty.

-Karl

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, I don't understand your requirement to lose five bars before warranty kicks in. Andy Palmer said:
----------
"Under an expanded New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty, Nissan will protect against capacity loss in LEAF batteries that fall below nine bars, of the available 12 bars displayed on the vehicle’s battery capacity gauge, for the first five years or 60,000 miles in the United States, whichever comes first. For LEAF vehicles whose batteries have fallen below nine bars during this period, Nissan will repair or replace the battery under warranty with a new or remanufactured battery to restore capacity at or above a minimum of nine bars."
---------

To me, that clearly indicates that loss of four bars (eight remaining) would trigger warranty coverage. Let's not make the requirements tougher than they really are... I expect to use that warranty.

-Karl

I stand corrected. I wouldn't be the one trying to make it "harder".... quite the opposite, I spent a good bit of my time and effort making it clear there was and is a battery problem in PHX which ultimately resulted in any capacity warranty.

I was quite positive that the threshold discussed previously was 8 of 12, but this is better. So, when you lose that fourth bar, your battery is officially between 66.25% and 72.5% capacity, according to the service manual, you're eligible for a battery repair to some capacity over 72.5%.

Of course, to be crystal clear, there is no official capacity warranty on a 2011-2012... just a promise.

 

[JPWhite]

Of course, to be crystal clear, there is no official capacity warranty on a 2011-2012... just a promise.

So 2013's already have the new capacity warranty? If that's the case I wonder what they are waiting for....?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Of course, to be crystal clear, there is no official capacity warranty on a 2011-2012... just a promise.

So 2013's already have the new capacity warranty? If that's the case I wonder what they are waiting for....?

The Nissan legal department?

 

[smkettner]

5yr, 60,000 :lol:

 

[davewill]

Of course, to be crystal clear, there is no official capacity warranty on a 2011-2012... just a promise.

A pretty strong promise, since they sent it directly to me in writing.

Introducing an Enhancement to the LEAF Battery Warranty

In addition to the 8-year/100,000-mile warranty on the lithium-ion battery, which covers defects in materials or workmanship, Nissan is now the only automobile manufacturer to provide a warranty against battery capacity loss. This new addition to the lithium-ion battery warranty for your LEAF® ensures protection against capacity loss below nine bars—as displayed on the battery capacity level gauge—for a period of five years or 60,000 miles, whichever comes first. Nissan will be providing additional information shortly with details on this significant addition to your vehicle’s battery warranty.

If push came to shove, I suspect you could enforce this...and I truly doubt Nissan would try to renege on it at this point.

 

[kolmstead]

Thanks for the clarification, Tony!

Nissan has been really quiet for months now. Thought we'd hear more about the new warranty by now. The 2013 uproar about lost bars is just getting started. Last year's will pale in comparison. Thank you so much for your Phoenix range test and your follow-on work since then.

I'm still expecting a mandatory firmware upgrade. I can't believe that Nissan is going to start honoring battery capacity loss warranty claims w/o a "less pessimistic" battery capacity firmware update. Which is OK, if the update really calculates true battery capacity.

My LEAF is still at one bar lost. 81% capacity, according to Turbo3's Android app, 79% using True GIDs (TM). Battery temps all in the red, over 90 degrees, from now through November.... Mojave desert. One or two more bars will go this summer.

-Karl

 

[KJD]

Thanks for the clarification, Tony!
Nissan has been really quiet for months now.

A short note from Nissan today.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=12102&start=160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[JPVLeaf]

After clocking just over 33k otherwise trouble-free miles. and a few weeks short of 2 yrs, I lost my first battery capacity bar. I’ve noticed steadily decreasing range and declining gids over the past 6 mos. My gids are up (down) to 232-235 at 100% (82.5-83.6). While from OC, I spend the weekdays ~20 mi. inland where it's often 5-10°F higher on the warmer days, including a couple of 90-100°F days already here in the past few weeks.

Since last summer's wilting reports, I've used a few battery-friendly practices. Who knows if I would've otherwise lost the first bar sooner. I like to think it helped at least a little. Nevertheless, I suspect I'm part of the pre-Summer 2013 BCB-losing batch.

 

[dhanson865]

JN1AZ0CP4BT002227 is a 3 bar loser that used to be in Mesa, AZ but now it is for sale in IL at a Nissan dealer
27,191 miles and they are asking $16,000.

heh, it's a CARFAX 1 owner vehicle :lol: :roll: :!:

Honestly I'd be tempted to buy it if the price were a little cheaper. It's a beautiful car, the 27k miles don't scare me and the 3 bars lost isn't a total dealbreaker for me but it is enough to make me hesitant to shell out too much.