Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[EricH]

First bar lost today. 20,490 miles, 26 months in-service. Ran 75 miles on fwy Saturday, down to LBW - must have been the last straw.

 

[dhanson865]

I love our tankless water heater and would never consider any other kind! In the summer months without heating, our monthly gas bill is around 10 bucks including cooking!

Heat pump water heater + tankless natural gas seems like a pretty good combination but pricy.

I can't imagine how. When I was in IA my minimum fee for using no gas , just a meter read and billing was $8 a month 10 years ago. Now that I'm in TN again the minimum fee for using no gas just a meter read and billing is $12 a month.

As to the heat pump water heater it uses about 30 to 40% of the electricity of a standard old fashioned water heater. I can't imagine the low cost of that unit increasing someones electric bill noticeably. Just getting rid of the gas meter / monthly minimum would pay for the entire years worth of heating water in one of these.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I love our tankless water heater and would never consider any other kind! In the summer months without heating, our monthly gas bill is around 10 bucks including cooking!

Heat pump water heater + tankless natural gas seems like a pretty good combination but pricy.

I can't imagine how. When I was in IA my minimum fee for using no gas , just a meter read and billing was $8 a month 10 years ago. Now that I'm in TN again the minimum fee for using no gas just a meter read and billing is $12 a month.

As to the heat pump water heater it uses about 30 to 40% of the electricity of a standard old fashioned water heater. I can't imagine the low cost of that unit increasing someones electric bill noticeably. Just getting rid of the gas meter / monthly minimum would pay for the entire years worth of heating water in one of these.

guessing he is just referring to the actual cost of the gas and delivery charge

 

[TomT]

No, I was talking total bill...

Here, with Southern California Gas, our gas rates are very low. In fact, I am on their level pay plan (which balances out your expected charges over the year) and it is $26 a month total, which includes the winter heating season (and our house is not particularly well insulated). (The bill still shows what your total monthly bill would have been without Level Pay.) The payback of a heat pump water heater would be forever for me...

We have gas heating, water heating, cooking and clothes drying...

I love our tankless water heater and would never consider any other kind! In the summer months without heating, our monthly gas bill is around 10 bucks including cooking!

Heat pump water heater + tankless natural gas seems like a pretty good combination but pricy.

I can't imagine how. When I was in IA my minimum fee for using no gas , just a meter read and billing was $8 a month 10 years ago. Now that I'm in TN again the minimum fee for using no gas just a meter read and billing is $12 a month.

 

[QueenBee]

I love our tankless water heater and would never consider any other kind! In the summer months without heating, our monthly gas bill is around 10 bucks including cooking!

Heat pump water heater + tankless natural gas seems like a pretty good combination but pricy.

I can't imagine how. When I was in IA my minimum fee for using no gas , just a meter read and billing was $8 a month 10 years ago. Now that I'm in TN again the minimum fee for using no gas just a meter read and billing is $12 a month.

As to the heat pump water heater it uses about 30 to 40% of the electricity of a standard old fashioned water heater. I can't imagine the low cost of that unit increasing someones electric bill noticeably. Just getting rid of the gas meter / monthly minimum would pay for the entire years worth of heating water in one of these.

Yeah, I agree that if you are paying $11 (Like here with PSE) a month just to have a gas account for water heating but it's likely that someone with a natural gas water heater also has other gas appliances; range, furnace, dryer, bbq, generator all being possibilities.

 

[DaveEV]

First bar lost today. 20,490 miles, 26 months in-service. Ran 75 miles on fwy Saturday, down to LBW - must have been the last straw.

Sorry to hear that.

As everyone expected, with weather warming up battery capacity bars are starting to drop like flies...

How much range do you feel that the car is down in real life? Does it feel like it's down 15% in range compared to new?

 

[EricH]

First bar lost today. 20,490 miles, 26 months in-service. Ran 75 miles on fwy Saturday, down to LBW - must have been the last straw.

Sorry to hear that.

As everyone expected, with weather warming up battery capacity bars are starting to drop like flies...

How much range do you feel that the car is down in real life? Does it feel like it's down 15% in range compared to new?

Absolutely. To squeak out 75 miles, I drove 55 from Whittier to Newport Beach (mild downhill along San Gabriel River the first 16 miles), then drove 52 most of the way home, and still got back with 2nd lowest GOM ever (7 miles indicated). The only "silver lining" is that, as the effective range has decreased, I've gotten better and better at managing the charge/range, and using more of the available charge. In other words, I sort of knew that driving faster than 55 on this trip would be trouble. I drove even slower going home due to the 6 indicated bars remaining and the "uphill" climb for the last 16 miles.

As far as the range drop goes: per CarWings I averaged 5.4 miles/kWh on this drive, so 75 miles should only have used about 14 kWh. For the car to go from "100%" to 7 miles remaining on 14 kWh is a significant degradation.

Since my regular commute is 6 miles each way, and I can usually charge at work (can squeeze in L1 if I'm really low, and the Volts and Prius' have hogged all the L2 units) -- and if something comes up, I'm a 6-mile drive back home to the backup ICE, so I feel like I can cope with range-loss way better than the "average" Leaf owner (assuming one exists . However, I'm going to be waiting with some anxiety for Nissan's replacement-pack terms, and then penciling-out when I bite the bullet and get a new pack.

One could argue that Nissan's recent rollout of dealer-based DC charging is remarkably well-timed for the 2011-12 owners, since I wouldn't attempt this trip again without a brief stop at McConnell Nissan on Harbor (or, worst-case, Mitsubishi in Cypress) for a much-needed boost on the way home.

 

[planet4ever]

To squeak out 75 miles, I drove 55 from Whittier to Newport Beach (mild downhill along San Gabriel River the first 16 miles), then drove 52 most of the way home, and still got back with 2nd lowest GOM ever (7 miles indicated).

Surely you do know that the GOM is not accurate, don't you? It is often wildly optimistic on a full battery, but it is pessimistic on a nearly empty one. When did it start flashing, if it did? At that point you still had about 1/6 of your total battery capacity remaining. If, for example, it started flashing at 72 miles, you could have probably have gone another 12 or so, for 84, before you ran out. I like Tony's rule: Note the mileage when it starts flashing (LBW), but you can keep driving until it changes to three dashes (VLBW). After that it will keep going for half as long as from LBW to VLBW before you hit Turtle.

In my opinion (not universally held), driving down to LBW is not much harder on the battery than charging to 80%. Driving down to VLBW is equivalent to charging to 100%. It's only below VLBW that you begin really stressing the battery.

Ray

 

[TomT]

My range these days is down about 20% compared to what I could get when the car was new. I have to drive very conservatively these days to do routes that I could have easily done before without much thought to them...

How much range do you feel that the car is down in real life? Does it feel like it's down 15% in range compared to new?

 

[EricH]

Surely you do know that the GOM is not accurate, don't you? It is often wildly optimistic on a full battery, but it is pessimistic on a nearly empty one. When did it start flashing, if it did? At that point you still had about 1/6 of your total battery capacity remaining. If, for example, it started flashing at 72 miles, you could have probably have gone another 12 or so, for 84, before you ran out. I like Tony's rule: Note the mileage when it starts flashing (LBW), but you can keep driving until it changes to three dashes (VLBW). After that it will keep going for half as long as from LBW to VLBW before you hit Turtle.

Ray

My main problem in taking the Leaf down to VLBW is getting it home - I live atop a very steep hill, plus my wife has low tolerance for range issues, so Turtle isn't an option for me. And yes, watching the GOM for 2+ years has left me appropriately skeptical, but it seems to be more consistent at low charge levels than high. I would say it started flashing close to 73 miles, just before we got off the freeway. At that point, whether I truly had 80 miles (73 travelled + 7 on GOM) or 85 miles of capability was moot; I needed 3 miles (with the hill) and I had it either way. But I can't do that trip again (daughter's apt) with the wife, who considers mid-trip refueling an unacceptable compromise.

 

[JPWhite]

My main problem in taking the Leaf down to VLBW is getting it home - I live atop a very steep hill, plus my wife has low tolerance for range issues, so Turtle isn't an option for me.

I find the LEAF Battery app to be useful for giving visibility to the remaining charge. It's better than a flashing dash.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12098

If you have an Android phone the OBDII adapter can be had for $14 off Amazon.

 

[LEAFfan]

My main problem in taking the Leaf down to VLBW is getting it home - I live atop a very steep hill, plus my wife has low tolerance for range issues, so Turtle isn't an option for me.

I find the LEAF Battery app to be useful for giving visibility to the remaining charge. It's better than a flashing dash.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12098

If you have an Android phone the OBDII adapter can be had for $14 off Amazon.

+1! Because Turbo3 said he hit Turtle at 10 'Gids (Sim), it helped me tremendously yesterday when I drove 188 miles on one charge. The SoC% meter on the dash disappears (--) around 6% and by that time, the DTE is already --- so I learned that if you are driving slowly, it's 8 'Gids, but driving fast it's 10.
I would recommend the Simvalley one for $18 from Amazon that you can modify (four screws) and have it switchable between the two Cans. Turbo3 said he will start working on the EV Can mid June.

 

[EricH]

I've heard wonderful things about the Android app you mention, and talked to garygid about it.

Alas - I'm a dyed-in-the-snow-white-wool iPhone junkie (converted, in part, because Nissan didn't have a Blackberry version of the Leaf app in April 2011). Not giving up my iMac/iPad/iPhone connectivity for an app that I, personally, would only truly need 2-5 times/year.

 

[LEAFfan]

I've heard wonderful things about the Android app you mention, and talked to garygid about it.

Alas - I'm a dyed-in-the-snow-white-wool iPhone junkie (converted, in part, because Nissan didn't have a Blackberry version of the Leaf app in April 2011). Not giving up my iMac/iPad/iPhone connectivity for an app that I, personally, would only truly need 2-5 times/year.

Are you serious? You don't use your regular phone, but you buy an inexpensive prepaid Android Phone ($40) that you can use EVERY time you are driving or in the car. This is the best and most useful App I've ever seen for the LEAF!

 

[EricH]

Are you serious? You don't use your regular phone, but you buy an inexpensive prepaid Android Phone ($40) that you can use EVERY time you are driving or in the car. This is the best and most useful App I've ever seen for the LEAF!

good point... thanks!

 

[TomT]

If I didn't already have a comprehensive Gid Meter (Lincomatic), I'd likely consider it... Also, I'm not wild about trying to read a phone will driving (and getting a ticket for it)...

I've heard wonderful things about the Android app you mention, and talked to garygid about it.

 

[JPWhite]

If I didn't already have a comprehensive Gid Meter (Lincomatic), I'd likely consider it... Also, I'm not wild about trying to read a phone will driving (and getting a ticket for it)...

You could simply run the app and initiate the lock screen so you can't read it, but set it to log battery and vehicle statistics every minute and analyze in Excel or your favorite spreadsheet app when you get home.

Knowing what habits run the battery temp up, the actual battery degradation status etc is illuminating while *not* driving. Plus if the car hits LBW you can determine you anticipated DTE based on miles/kWh, not the blinking GOM.

The app is pretty awesome and is adding features at a rapid pace. One of the new features in development is a brake regen analysis tool that will help fine tune your braking by letting you know the % regen vs physical braking.

 

[DTros]

First bar lost today.
24,931 miles
23 months in-service


_________________
Silver SL -
A/V Charger
DELIVERY: 6/24/11

 

[TimLee]

First bar lost today.
24,931 miles
23 months in-service

Silver SL -
A/V Charger
DELIVERY: 6/24/11

Location? Heat Exposure? Charging practices 80% / 100%? DCFC use?

 

[LEAFfan]

First bar lost today.
24,931 miles
23 months in-service


_________________
Silver SL -
A/V Charger
DELIVERY: 6/24/11

I will guess that you have to be in a pretty cool clim.