Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[Weatherman]

And even if it doesn't get much worse for this one customer... Nissan could certainly deal with getting as many formal complaints as possible, so that they will think harder about an active TMS in the future.

I think that dog has already died.

Andy Palmer made it very clear (in front of a bunch of very unhappy Phoenix LEAF owners) that Nissan has no intention of ever putting a TMS on the LEAF. Their plan is to, someday, sometime way out in the future, solve the heat sensitivity issue with improved chemistry.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And even if it doesn't get much worse for this one customer... Nissan could certainly deal with getting as many formal complaints as possible, so that they will think harder about an active TMS in the future.

I think that dog has already died.

Andy Palmer made it very clear (in front of a bunch of very unhappy Phoenix LEAF owners) that Nissan has no intention of ever putting a TMS on the LEAF. Their plan is to, someday, sometime way out in the future, solve the heat sensitivity issue with improved chemistry.

Yup. The cost to buy up the dozens of cars so far (to be resold somewhere) is pennies on the dollar compared to a full blown TMS that is primarily only needed in hot areas. That's not to say that there isn't a benefit for TMS in all climates. Nissan apparently is content with the current cost/risk of not running TMS when everybody else is.

Volkswagon had air cooled engines when everybody else in the world was water cooled, and would still have that if not for pesky emissions regulations and fuel economy standards.

 

[smkettner]

The annual battery check is all that is needed to keep any warranty in place.
I can't see the phone call will make any real difference.

I think you need to be 5 bars down to make a warranty claim. That is time to make the call.

 

[surfingslovak]

Sorry I haven't been following this too closely, are we supposed to call customer service and report lost bar(s)?

Probably not worth the effort, at this point.

Have to disagree with this 100%.

If we want Nissan to ever fix this problem, the first thing to do is let them know the problem exists.

Please do call the customer support line and complain.

Yes, I would call customer service and report the issue if you found it disconcerting enough to raise it on a public forum such as this one. Nissan, like any large corporation, monitors customer satisfaction and other metrics. If you disagree with their decision about not building more heat-resistant battery systems, you should let them know. Just my two cents anyway.

 

[surfingslovak]

I think you need to be 5 bars down to make a warranty claim. That is time to make the call.

Four bars, I believe. Like with any business, effective communication is key.

 

[Joeviocoe]

I think you need to be 5 bars down to make a warranty claim. That is time to make the call.

Four bars, I believe. Like with any business, effective communication is key.

Yes, both of the 2 reported 4-bar-loss Leafs have been bought back by Nissan...
and at least 1 of the 9 reported 3-bar-loss remaining Leafs have been bought back...
and bturner had 2-bars lost...and Nissan bought it back.
and pb1 had only 1-bar lost... and Nissan bought it back.

It is not set in stone. And you certainly don't need to lose anywhere near 5 bars.

You need to make stink about it. I doubt they will buy it back... but if you lose more bars in the future... you have a better leg to stand on if you start barking now.

 

[smkettner]

Not to buy back but the actual capacity warranty.
I thought 4 bars down at 60k or 5 yrs was good. Lower and Nissan swaps in a used battery.
Maybe I am wrong :?:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Not to buy back but the actual capacity warranty.
I thought 4 bars down at 60k or 5 yrs was good. Lower and Nissan swaps in a used battery.
Maybe I am wrong :?:

Yes, for the warranty, I think you're right (although it is not officially out).

That means that at the moment you lose bar number 5 at 66.24% capacity, and you have less that 5 years / 60,000 miles, then you are eligible for a battery replacement that will bring you back up to 66.25% or better (only 4 bars missing).

 

[Joeviocoe]

And even if it doesn't get much worse for this one customer... Nissan could certainly deal with getting as many formal complaints as possible, so that they will think harder about an active TMS in the future.

I think that dog has already died.

Andy Palmer made it very clear (in front of a bunch of very unhappy Phoenix LEAF owners) that Nissan has no intention of ever putting a TMS on the LEAF. Their plan is to, someday, sometime way out in the future, solve the heat sensitivity issue with improved chemistry.

Yup. The cost to buy up the dozens of cars so far (to be resold somewhere) is pennies on the dollar compared to a full blown TMS that is primarily only needed in hot areas. That's not to say that there isn't a benefit for TMS in all climates. Nissan apparently is content with the current cost/risk of not running TMS when everybody else is.

Volkswagon had air cooled engines when everybody else in the world was water cooled, and would still have that if not for pesky emissions regulations and fuel economy standards.

I didn't mean to be specific, that the Leaf will have a TMS.

But your complaining could certainly help others in the future. Whether it is called the Leaf, Nissans next EV may have an Optional hot-weather package.

Even if your complaints cause only a subtle change in R&D funding to look closer at more heat resistant chemistries. Instead of Nissan drawing the line at $400/kwh, more formal complaints could push them to accept $420/kwh as a starting point to introduce a new battery.

In 5 years time, perhaps a 3rd party could make batteries (or addon kits to help) but only if they perceive a high demand, if you complain).

Or even from other automakers, seeing the formal complaints to Nissan... could offer better competition in the EV market, lowering prices.

Perry may not be at Nissan forever...

etc.

-------------------------

I am sorry, but just because you won't get what you want exactly as you want it, right now... doesn't mean that it is not worth anything to make a claim.
There are many ways the future could pan out for Nissan.

 

[TimLee]

Instead of Nissan drawing the line at $400/kwh, more formal complaints could push them to accept $420/kwh as a starting point to introduce a new battery.

Where did you get the $400/kWh? Is this just a hypothetical value to make your point that Nissan might consider an alternate chemistry that was 5% more expensive? Or do you have some data that Nissan cost on the current chemistry is $400/kWh?

 

[surfingslovak]

Where did you get the $400/kWh? Is this just a hypothetical value to make your point that Nissan might consider an alternate chemistry that was 5% more expensive? Or do you have some data that Nissan cost on the current chemistry is $400/kWh?

I believe that this was a figure, which was tossed around in the press. I doubt that anyone has any authoritative and conclusive information on the topic.

 

[Joeviocoe]

Instead of Nissan drawing the line at $400/kwh, more formal complaints could push them to accept $420/kwh as a starting point to introduce a new battery.

Where did you get the $400/kWh? Is this just a hypothetical value to make your point that Nissan might consider an alternate chemistry that was 5% more expensive? Or do you have some data that Nissan cost on the current chemistry is $400/kWh?

Completely hypothetical, just to make a point that economic decisions could be swayed slightly.
Sorry for any confusion. I have no idea what Nissan's costs per kwh truly is.

 

[JPWhite]

Potentially the first Tennessee capacity bar loss reported !?!

See the following post on these forums from TNLeaf.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=1051&p=290254&hilit=nashville+leaf#p290083

I suggested he report the loss on the forums.

 

[geolizleaf]

Lost my first bar 5/7/13- 17808 miles; 20 months. Usually charge to 100%, drive 40+ miles/day, average 4.5m/KWH, knew it was coming for several months.
Suspect this is normal for the environment we live in. Hope the new battery warranty we have heard about is real, Nissan rep said to expect a letter soon when I called in to report the loss. I got a case number, but didn't ask for anything at this time. We'll see how the summer in Tucson treats me, Otherwise the car has been great. Really like the acceleration when I've needed it

 

[Pipcecil]

Well I actually hit another sad mark yesterday. Doing a normal drive to my inlaws with nothing out of the ordinary for the drive minus a slight cross wind (not headwind). I hit LBW while still showing two bars remaining for range. GOM showed 8 miles left. Granted the bar went away after about 0.5-1 mile, but the fact that I hit it with 2 bars was very sad.

It was definetely predicted since the bar value changes as capacity drops but the LBW/VLBW/Turtle are fixed % that this would start to occur. Sad that I had to see it happen

 

[mavissmith]

Just lost my first capacity bar. I will report my case on Monday since Nissan Leaf Support is closed for the day. I've had my Leaf for 19 months now (leased August 2011), current mileage is 26,167.

Other than this I've really enjoyed the car, being an early adopter, and being part of the EV movement.

I'll post here if anything interesting comes about from my call to Nissan.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

 

[mavissmith]

Done!

 

[scottf200]

Just lost my first capacity bar. I will report my case on Monday since Nissan Leaf Support is closed for the day. I've had my Leaf for 19 months now (leased August 2011), current mileage is 26,167. Other than this I've really enjoyed the car, being an early adopter, and being part of the EV movement. I'll post here if anything interesting comes about from my call to Nissan.

That is like perfect weather there. Nice.

 

[TomT]

I'm not sure it really makes any real difference. They close out the case after awhile anyway and it then disappears from their system...

Just lost my first capacity bar. I will report my case on Monday since Nissan Leaf Support is closed for the day.