Battery Replacement Program Details

[nosuchthing]

You went from 4-5 bars to 1-2 bars. Hanging on is a fitting description. On of these mornings you'll turn your commuter on and your top CB will be gone.

You won't like the way your display looks once it happens. It took me a while to accept it, looking like mouthful with a missing tooth. Never actually got used to it. Now I have 2 CBs missing, so the whole look of it is a joke now. On the other hand it means that sooner rather than later I'll be able to press Nissan to "update" that TB. :twisted:

I think Nissan shot themselves in the foot by showing CBs at all. It's making them look bad because it's there for all to see.

 

[brg2290]

I do expect an announcement soon after the hot traction battery rolls out.

What is this "hot traction battery"?

 

[Stanton]

I think Nissan shot themselves in the foot by showing CBs at all. It's making them look bad because it's there for all to see.

I think they should be commended for having the foresight (and guts) to put a meter/gauge out there that is a reality in any battery powered device. At least we know what we're dealing with and can (eventually) do something about it.

 

[Stoaty]

What is this "hot traction battery"?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192&start=270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[thankyouOB]

i stand by what i said as the second poster in the thread referenced above.

SYB is unacceptable to owners/buyers of the carl; (i cant speak for lessees. i dont lease.)
we want a car that has some years to it, and not a burn-churn-throwaway vehicle.

the warranty upgrade is useless for many of us. we are not going to lose so many bars before we hit the mileage or time limits.
i am at 33k after 32 months and still have all bars, albeit the range is down enough to really notice it.

I am not going to repeat explanations that have been well-established and well expressed before.
nissan cannot fail to sell the key part of the car to those who want it; the only exception could be those who bought it after (june 2013), the date nissan announced that they would offer replacement batteries ONLY for lease and only if you gave up the battery you paid for without compensation.

 

[brg2290]

What is this "hot traction battery"?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192&start=270" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

HI Stoaty (and ILECTRIC).

Stoaty, is the answer to my question supposed to be on the page you linked, or on one of the subsequent 45 pages? I'm aware of the battery degradation issues related to the high temperatures of places like Phoenix. I have also heard of battery temperature management systems. So, am I to infer that "hot traction battery" is referring to a battery with a temperature management system, to manage the battery temperature in hot climates (and theoretically in cold too)?

If so, I have heard nothing about this being in the works from Nissan. Granted, I don't read everything on MNL, but I do check InsideEVs on a regular basis, and I don't reading anything about the imminent introduction of a Leaf Battery System with TMS.

 

[smkettner]

The "hot battery" is just a new battery electrode that is heat tolerant. No direct cooling. Rumor is the new battery will be out some time in 2014.

 

[thankyouOB]

The "hot battery" is just a new battery electrode that is heat tolerant. No direct cooling. Rumor is the new battery will be out some time in 2014.

the NDAs here prolly know more.

(regardless of my rants about SYB, i would still buy the LEAF. if i had it to do over again. that view may change, depending on what nissan does this year on the SYB stupidity. i want this car to be serviceable at a reasonable distance for more than 3-5 years.)

 

[Stoaty]

Stoaty, is the answer to my question supposed to be on the page you linked, or on one of the subsequent 45 pages? I'm aware of the battery degradation issues related to the high temperatures of places like Phoenix. I have also heard of battery temperature management systems. So, am I to infer that "hot traction battery" is referring to a battery with a temperature management system, to manage the battery temperature in hot climates (and theoretically in cold too)?

Yes, it is described in the very first post on that page. Apparently has a different electrolyte and ceramic separator (I think the Volt battery has the ceramic separator), and supposedly very heat tolerant. Nissan is not doing work on a thermal management system for the battery (that we know of).

 

[GRA]

Stoaty, is the answer to my question supposed to be on the page you linked, or on one of the subsequent 45 pages? I'm aware of the battery degradation issues related to the high temperatures of places like Phoenix. I have also heard of battery temperature management systems. So, am I to infer that "hot traction battery" is referring to a battery with a temperature management system, to manage the battery temperature in hot climates (and theoretically in cold too)?

Yes, it is described in the very first post on that page. Apparently has a different electrolyte and ceramic separator (I think the Volt battery has the ceramic separator), and supposedly very heat tolerant. Nissan is not doing work on a thermal management system for the battery (that we know of).

What matters will be if Nissan is willing to put their money where their mouth is and warranty the 'hot' battery to 80% of original capacity as well as 70%, assuming no problems crop up to prevent its introduction. If they don't, any claims they make about the new battery being heat tolerant have the same credibility to me as what Mark Perry was telling people in 2010.

Since it's a new product which has only undergone accelerated cycle testing, I'm not saying that they need to warranty it to 5 yr./60k miles @ 80% right out of the gate; I think 3 yr./36k or better yet, 45k miles (to cover all those with 3 yr., 15k miles/yr. leases) would cover all future lessees and be acceptable at first, until they get more experience and can adjust the warranty length upward (if possible). But the warranty either has to use % of original capacity, or else specifically define what each bar means so that Nissan can't play games with the bar values. I see no reason to trust them to do the right thing as a matter of course, given their behavior to date. Until they prove otherwise, I expect them to do the legal minimum, or failing that what ever they think they can get away with without too much bad PR.

 

[mwalsh]

The "hot battery" is just a new battery electrode that is heat tolerant. No direct cooling. Rumor is the new battery will be out some time in 2014.

It's also going to have ceramic coated electrode separator sheets, which should also handle heat better.

 

[tombobcat]

Through all of this has Nissan really left anyone hanging with a car that doesn't work?

It's me, I have to use my wife's ICE car for commuting now. My LEAF with 2 CB lost leaves very little margin for my 60 miles commute.

 

[nosuchthing]

It's me, I have to use my wife's ICE car for commuting now. My LEAF with 2 CB lost leaves very little margin for my 60 miles commute.

Welcome to the ICE-commuting Leaf owners' club.

 

[Valdemar]

I was about to become one with my lengthened commute and decreased range but fortunately I can now charge at work. It is $2/hr and I'll have to spend more and more time on it as my battery further deteriorates so any hope for financial benefits of owning an EV has completely evaporated. I will soon have a couple of QC locations on my commute, so that is another, albeit less convenient, option to continue driving the Leaf for 2-3 more years.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Completely evaporated? What is the weekly or monthly charging cost? I would think that you would not charge more than an hour or two? If two hours that is $20 a week. That is a pretty short gas commute

 

[Valdemar]

Completely evaporated? What is the weekly or monthly charging cost? I would think that you would not charge more than an hour or two? If two hours that is $20 a week. That is a pretty short gas commute

I'm averaging around 70mpge at current gas prices. Not too bad you may say, but it is going to get worse as the battery capacity is going downhill. And the looming battery replacement 3-4 years down the road will surely wipe out any savings I have accumulated over these years. I have no interest in leasing the battery for $100+ month and unlikely will benefit from the add-on warranty coverage. If I don't dump the car before my best bet for replacement is to source a slightly used battery on the secondary market. However if a battery replacement requires some sort of reprogramming of the on-board electronics using Consult III even that may not be an option.

 

[smkettner]

However if a battery replacement requires some sort of reprogramming of the on-board electronics using Consult III even that may not be an option.

I would find it interesting to see how long the BMS takes to fully adjust to a new battery with no reset.

 

[Valdemar]

However if a battery replacement requires some sort of reprogramming of the on-board electronics using Consult III even that may not be an option.

I would find it interesting to see how long the BMS takes to fully adjust to a new battery with no reset.

Are you saying the car will be drivable w/o the reset? If so it may not be too bad as you can probably reset the BMS at a dealership and just pay for labor.

 

[smkettner]

I was thinking self replaced battery, charge it up, and drive. I assume the BMS would find the new capacity and eventually get your bars back to 12.

 

[Valdemar]

I was thinking self replaced battery, charge it up, and drive. I assume the BMS would find the new capacity and eventually get your bars back to 12.

Correct, I'm just saying you can optionally drive to a dealer and request the BMS to be reset to avoid this learning cycle. Can't be more than 1hr labor. My concern, however, is that the car will reject the new battery completely and won't switch into D until you "marry" the battery to the BMS somehow through Consult III.