Battery Replacement Program Details

[mwalsh]

Correct, I'm just saying you can optionally drive to a dealer and request the BMS to be reset to avoid this learning cycle. Can't be more than 1hr labor. My concern, however, is that the car will reject the new battery completely and won't switch into D until you "marry" the battery to the BMS somehow through Consult III.

I don't think you can avoid the learning cycle. Nor do I think you need special attention through Consult III when you get a new pack installed. Remember, I went though something very similar last year when the tech bricked my BCM. To all intents and purposes, the new BCM knew nothing about my new pack and it took several weeks of coaxing charges to get even close to what my old BCM had reported.

 

[Valdemar]

There can be a difference in the learning algorithm when the BMS is told "start fresh", i.e. reset, vs. just swapping the battery from under it.

 

[mwalsh]

There can be a difference in the learning algorithm when the BMS is told "start fresh", i.e. reset, vs. just swapping the battery from under it.

So you're saying that the BCM didn't know about ANY pack? I can buy that.

 

[Valdemar]

There can be a difference in the learning algorithm when the BMS is told "start fresh", i.e. reset, vs. just swapping the battery from under it.

So you're saying that the BCM didn't know about ANY pack? I can buy that.

I'm just speculating, but the idea that the BMS's logic may be different when it has no accumulated battery data doesn't seem to be too far fetched. I suspect a BMS reset is required every time a battery is changed in the service manual.

 

[JeremyW]

Yes there is such a provision in the service manual to reset the capacity loss data.

 

[TickTock]

Yes there is such a provision in the service manual to reset the capacity loss data.

Yeah there is. My dealer hits that button every time I take it in - very annoying since it takes months for cap bars to return to the pre-service state (although SOH & Ah capacity do recover quickly enough).

 

[JeremyW]

Yes there is such a provision in the service manual to reset the capacity loss data.

Yeah there is. My dealer hits that button every time I take it in - very annoying since it takes months for cap bars to return to the pre-service state (although SOH & Ah capacity do recover quickly enough).

Of course in big bold letters it says (paraphrasing) "only do this when replacing the battery" :roll:

 

[Valdemar]

Yes there is such a provision in the service manual to reset the capacity loss data.

Yeah there is. My dealer hits that button every time I take it in - very annoying since it takes months for cap bars to return to the pre-service state (although SOH & Ah capacity do recover quickly enough).

This is probably one method dealers will use to "recondition" the batteries of the off-lease Leafs before selling them to the unsuspecting public...

 

[nosuchthing]

Has anyone other than Tick Tock had "capacity reset" done on their car?

 

[Stanton]

Yes there is such a provision in the service manual to reset the capacity loss data.

Yeah there is. My dealer hits that button every time I take it in - very annoying since it takes months for cap bars to return to the pre-service state (although SOH & Ah capacity do recover quickly enough).

This is probably one method dealers will use to "recondition" the batteries of the off-lease Leafs before selling them to the unsuspecting public...

Pretty scary, especially if there isn't enough time for the Ahr capacity to adjust even when using an ODB reader. It took several weeks for my Leaf to "settle" after the P3227 update. :evil:

 

[dhanson865]

This is probably one method dealers will use to "recondition" the batteries of the off-lease Leafs before selling them to the unsuspecting public...

Pretty scary, especially if there isn't enough time for the Ahr capacity to adjust even when using an ODB reader. It took several weeks for my Leaf to "settle" after the P3227 update. :evil:

which is why I asked Chelsea to ask Nissan how a used car buyer can protect themselves from this. Unfortunately she didn't have the guts to ask the question that way and we got a meaningless Q&A that was only very loosely related to my original question.

 

[Valdemar]

This is probably one method dealers will use to "recondition" the batteries of the off-lease Leafs before selling them to the unsuspecting public...

Pretty scary, especially if there isn't enough time for the Ahr capacity to adjust even when using an ODB reader. It took several weeks for my Leaf to "settle" after the P3227 update. :evil:

which is why I asked Chelsea to ask Nissan how a used car buyer can protect themselves from this. Unfortunately she didn't have the guts to ask the question that way and we got a meaningless Q&A that was only very loosely related to my original question.

Is the GOM affected by this reset as well? I would think so, but if not driving for several miles in a steady motion and looking at the energy economy/remaining range may give you a clue if the capacity meter was "rolled back". Or if the seller agrees, and that is a big "if", you can drive it from 100% to LBW, which is the best method probably. Btw, it is illegal to roll back the odometers, but there is no equivalent law covering EV battery performance readings, at least I'm not aware of it.

 

[mwalsh]

but if not driving for several miles in a steady motion and looking at the energy economy/remaining range may give you a clue if the capacity meter was "rolled back".

Fuel bars might be a better indicator. Given ideal weather; relatively flat ground; and at a steady 65mph, the first four should last ~5 miles each on a non-degraded car. In a car degraded by ~20% they will last 4 miles or less. I would insist on driving at least 15-20 miles on the test drive, starting with a fully-charged pack.

 

[dhanson865]

but if not driving for several miles in a steady motion and looking at the energy economy/remaining range may give you a clue if the capacity meter was "rolled back".

Fuel bars might be a better indicator. Given ideal weather; relatively flat ground; and at a steady 65mph, the first four should last ~5 miles each on a non-degraded car. In a car degraded by ~20% they will last 4 miles or less. I would insist on driving at least 15-20 miles on the test drive, starting with a fully-charged pack.

Good luck finding "level ground" anywhere within my car buying area.

Have you seen my commute? I swear it doesn't seem that steep but it's definitely nothing but ups and downs.

 

[epete]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

Last week I got a call from the Honda dealer on the FIT. I guess I really was next in line on the list. In short, I am now the leasee of the 169th Honda FIT EV. If it weren't for this thread, I probably would have a Leaf right now. Anyway it will still be a consideration in 3 years when my lease expires and they take my FIT away. By then there should be better Battery Technology and a reasonable replacement policy. Renting is not an option.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

I am a potential buyer. Still interested but every time I read updates on this I am put off even further. My original plan was to purchase, I then changed my opinion to lease, based on this thread. At the same time I put my name on the list for the Honda FIT Lease and I am now told I am next on the list. (However the dealer said they get very few models and the next FIT could be between now and up to 6 months). I have all of my 240V outlets installed, one in the garage and one outdoors un the driveway. So I am patiently waiting a little longer to see if A FIT becomes available or if any better news on the Leaf becomes available.

Last week I got a call from the Honda dealer on the FIT. I guess I really was next in line on the list. In short, I am now the leasee of the 169th Honda FIT EV. If it weren't for this thread, I probably would have a Leaf right now. Anyway it will still be a consideration in 3 years when my lease expires and they take my FIT away. By then there should be better Battery Technology and a reasonable replacement policy. Renting is not an option.

congrats on your car! will be expecting a very detailed review when you have had time to break her in.

 

[evchels]

This is probably one method dealers will use to "recondition" the batteries of the off-lease Leafs before selling them to the unsuspecting public...

Pretty scary, especially if there isn't enough time for the Ahr capacity to adjust even when using an ODB reader. It took several weeks for my Leaf to "settle" after the P3227 update. :evil:

which is why I asked Chelsea to ask Nissan how a used car buyer can protect themselves from this. Unfortunately she didn't have the guts to ask the question that way and we got a meaningless Q&A that was only very loosely related to my original question.

I totally agree that there's not been a satisfactory answer on this (other than being told that it's not possible for a dealer to "fake" pack condition), nor many other questions and concerns related to the battery replacement/reconditioning/rental program and related issues of used cars, etc. That should not be taken to mean that I (and others) haven't had the "guts" to ask, nor that I haven't and won't keep asking.

 

[TomT]

Unfortunately, we now know that this is not entirely true. A dealership can do a reset on the BMS that will set it back to 12 bars, and it will then take some time to work back down to the true capacity of the pack. Many who have had a 2, 3, or more capacity tick loss have had it go back to 12 when they had the P3227 update or other work done, and the dealership performed a BMS reset for some unknown reason....

(other than being told that it's not possible for a dealer to "fake" pack condition)

 

[evchels]

Unfortunately, we now know that this is not entirely true. A dealership can do a reset on the BMS that will set it back to 12 bars, and it will then take some time to work back down to the true capacity of the pack. Many who have had a 2, 3, or more capacity tick loss have had it go back to 12 when they had the P3227 update or other work done, and the dealership performed a BMS reset for some unknown reason....

(other than being told that it's not possible for a dealer to "fake" pack condition)

Which is why you've not seen me promoting this claim until there is stronger protection/data behind it. I don't doubt the initial reassurance from Nissan was sincere, but I've also been married to an EV tech for a while...

 

[walterbays]

Unfortunately, we now know that this is not entirely true. A dealership can do a reset on the BMS that will set it back to 12 bars, and it will then take some time to work back down to the true capacity of the pack.

I think rapid battery degradation, absence of replacement battery price, and this lack of reliable battery state information are the three main factors depressing used Leaf prices - and consequently new Leaf sales. I suppose Nissan doesn't care (yet) since for now they can still sell all they're able to produce. Maybe by the time they can increase production they will have an improved battery ready to ship, and then they'll finally be willing to address the other two problems.