am I a mooch?

[Nubo]

The business made a decision to offer free parking, and free charging, apparently with no strings attached. There is no ethical dilemma here.

It would be easy enough to put in "customers only" signage or to convert the charger to require authentication . This clearly for-profit business has decided it is in their best interest to leave both free for all. You were a beneficiary of that decision. It's ok.

The only ethical consideration would be to return to your vehicle within a reasonable time after charge completion so that someone else could charge if needed.

 

[MikeinDenver]

I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.

there were 2 empty spaces when I arrived and when I left. Was I wrong to mooch? I really wish the machine would have charged me 3 bucks or something then I wouldn't feel bad. It was a sema charge station. I have a card for them, but this machine did not require one. Maybe I should have gone in and dumped 3 bucks on a slot. With my luck I would have won. Wasn't really hungry to eat either.

you were indeed a mooch on 2 levels, using their parking lot to meet someone and go elsewhere and using their electricity while not patronizing their business.

Who has not met someone at a centralized parking lot and then gone elsewhere. There is no harm therefore no foul. The cost on the local community is far more than any free electricity used.

 

[LeftieBiker]

How about three questions, to be asked before plugging in?

1. Will I be harming the entity sponsoring the charging station? (Harming does not equal "costing a little money.")

2. Will I be harming other EV drivers? Say, by depriving one of a needed charging space when I don't really need to charge?

3. Will I be making the EV community look bad to other people by plugging in here and now?

If the answer to all three is "no" then plug in and don't feel guilty.

 

[QueenBee]

How about three questions, to be asked before plugging in?

1. Will I be harming the entity sponsoring the charging station? (Harming does not equal "costing a little money.")

So now it's not stealing if you only steal a little? Or just that you are OK stealing when it's from businesses you don't agree with or it's little money?

 

[apvbguy]

I feel terrible. I plugged into a free level 2 charger and gave nothing in return for the 13 kwh I absorbed. You see, I drove to Muckleshoot casino met a friend there, plugged my car in, then took off in his car to go hiking. 3 hours later we came back he left, and I got into my vehicle and took off too. I never set foot in the joint. I dont like casinos.

there were 2 empty spaces when I arrived and when I left. Was I wrong to mooch? I really wish the machine would have charged me 3 bucks or something then I wouldn't feel bad. It was a sema charge station. I have a card for them, but this machine did not require one. Maybe I should have gone in and dumped 3 bucks on a slot. With my luck I would have won. Wasn't really hungry to eat either.

you were indeed a mooch on 2 levels, using their parking lot to meet someone and go elsewhere and using their electricity while not patronizing their business.

Who has not met someone at a centralized parking lot and then gone elsewhere. There is no harm therefore no foul. The cost on the local community is far more than any free electricity used.

SMH

 

[EVDRIVER]

How about three questions, to be asked before plugging in?

1. Will I be harming the entity sponsoring the charging station? (Harming does not equal "costing a little money.")

So now it's not stealing if you only steal a little? Or just that you are OK stealing when it's from businesses you don't agree with or it's little money?

Exactly. Classic rationalization with assumption. Businesses are private property not public lots and any parking on that property is clearly intended for use of patrons unless there is a sign that says, "park here and go someplace else". Taking a penny is stealing, there is no dollar point that is reached before it is not stealing. When in doubt, go inside and ask if you can park and charge, that surely clears it up! Regardless of the clear cut or implied, taking that space and using the charger now prevents a paying customer from using the charger, one they may have spend considerable time and money installing to please paying customers. What is the lost opportunity cost to the business if they have non-customers using the spot? What if they think they need to install more units because their paying customers complain? There are plenty of sites like this where more non-customers use the site than customers, asking gets one the correct answer and also shows the business EV drivers respect private property and the business owner.

 

[QueenBee]

How about three questions, to be asked before plugging in?

1. Will I be harming the entity sponsoring the charging station? (Harming does not equal "costing a little money.")

So now it's not stealing if you only steal a little? Or just that you are OK stealing when it's from businesses you don't agree with or it's little money?

Exactly. Classic rationalization with assumption. Businesses are private property not public lots and any parking on that property is clearly intended for use of patrons unless there is a sign that says, "park here and go someplace else". Taking a penny is stealing, there is no dollar point that is reached before it is not stealing. When in doubt, go inside and ask if you can park and charge, that surely clears it up! Regardless of the clear cut or implied, taking that space and using the charger now prevents a paying customer from using the charger, one they may have spend considerable time and money installing to please paying customers. What is the lost opportunity cost to the business if they have non-customers using the spot? What if they think they need to install more units because their paying customers complain? There are plenty of sites like this where more non-customers use the site than customers, asking gets one the correct answer and also shows the business EV drivers respect private property and the business owner.

And the reality is they may not have any issue with it because either way it brought foot traffic "in"/near their business, it improves their brand/reputation, and helps spread the word for example had it not been for this thread I wouldn't know they had EVSEs. Either way this decision is up to the private property owner to decide and not for us.

I admit I've used receptacles without asking but always try to make an effort to stop in/thank a business who is hosting/providing public chargers. Of the public receptacles I've asked to use 2 of three have said yes and the one that said no, said no because the garage was really old and had really scary wiring, though I had already scoped out a new GFCI receptacle that appeared to be the only receptacle on the circuit likely installed when they installed a new automatic roll up door.

 

[johnrhansen]

In most businesses that size,it would be hard to find a decision maker available. And if you did, they might be more annoyed by you taking time out of their day for asking. Next time, I'll make sure I patronize the business.

 

[dgalvan]

The business/property owner takes on the responsibility for who can use their charging station and parking lot.
They have the ability to restrict usage as they see fit, via signage ("parking/charging for patrons only"), and/or enforcement (parking meters, membership to charging payment network, parking fee, etc.)

In short: If they want to restrict usage of their parking/charging, it's on them to provide signage and/or enforcement.

If the business / property owner provides free parking and/or free charging without any caveats or restrictions, then you can safely assume they are providing the charging as a public service. (Many public libraries do this with charging stations.)
Or, at least, you can assume they are inherently accepting any consequences of not providing signage or restrictions, which would include usage by non-customers.

If you are in serious doubt whether it is ok to park/charge there, just ask one of the workers/managers.
In the OP's case, I imagine that if he had asked a casino worker if it was ok to charge there and they said "sure!", his conscience would be clear.

The OP should NOT feel terrible because:
1. He did not break any rules.
2. His usage (13 kWh) would probably amount to no more than $2 of electricity.
(Yes it does matter that this is a small amount. "right or wrong" may be binary, but there is a quantitative degree to just how right or wrong something is. The OP did NOT break any rules by charging there, but if he HAD been breaking the rules by doing so, charging $2 of electricity would be wrong, but charging $100 of electricity would indeed be "more wrong".)

All that's left to consider is etiquette: was he icing out any other potential customer EV owners by charging there? He said that there were 2 free spots when he got there and when he left.

My conscience would be clear if I were the OP.

 

[Nubo]

How about three questions, to be asked before plugging in?

1. Will I be harming the entity sponsoring the charging station? (Harming does not equal "costing a little money.")

So now it's not stealing if you only steal a little? Or just that you are OK stealing when it's from businesses you don't agree with or it's little money?

It's not stealing because the charge station is being offered free of charge or encumbrance.

 

[johnrhansen]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

 

[mctom987]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

Only a minute?

 

[Bob]

If someone leaves a store and tosses their change on the ground, are you a mooch for picking it up? They voluntarily tossed it without any mention of who should get it or why they were tossing it. So I say that you're fine.

As a side note, I recently parked at a Chargepoint that is charging $0.50 per hour of active connect time. I stayed parked there for 4 hours and was only charged $0.75 because it only took 1.5 hours to charge my car. My $0.75 barely covers 6kW for 1.5 hours (comes out $0.0833 per kWh), and does not cover the cost of purchasing, installing, or maintaining the EVSE, billing, power distribution charge, or land cost. And I was getting free parking in a crowded city.

Am I a mooch? I don't think so. They picked the terms and I met them. They had their reasons and I considered them good for all. What were their reasons? It could be less noise, less pollution, encouraging EVs, making them look progressive, getting a tax credit, or something else. Whatever their reasons, it was a win-win for all. That shouldn't leave anyone feeling guilty.

Bob

 

[QueenBee]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

Not sure where you work but at my job we are allowed to take breaks...

 

[johnrhansen]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

Not sure where you work but at my job we are allowed to take breaks...

I'm flattered you spent your entire break reading and replying to my post

 

[apvbguy]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

please tell us how you know that everyone works, or works the same hours you do.

 

[mkjayakumar]

I feel bad mooching off free electricity every day at my office provided charge point station. When the EV station was planned I insisted that they charge some money, but i was told this was a perk to employees. It is my opinion that installing a few stations and reserving a few spots for EVs in itself is a big perk and we don't need any free electricity on top of that.

But then again I charge only to the extent that gets me back home with some reasonable buffer, and I always start from my home with a full charge. But I guess there are many who skip charging at home completely and rolls into office with 2 bars left and then charge fully here - I could be wrong but given that the Leafs & Volts are charging for several hours everyday, it seems that way. That to me is mooching.

 

[johnrhansen]

It's interesting to note that there are way more replies to my post during working hours M-F... If it's not OK to steal "just a little" from the casino, how about taking one minute of your boss' time to be on MNL?

please tell us how you know that everyone works, or works the same hours you do.

can't tell about everyone. But this forum is most active M-F during the day.

 

[MikeinDenver]

I feel bad mooching off free electricity every day at my office provided charge point station. When the EV station was planned I insisted that they charge some money, but i was told this was a perk to employees. It is my opinion that installing a few stations and reserving a few spots for EVs in itself is a big perk and we don't need any free electricity on top of that.

But then again I charge only to the extent that gets me back home with some reasonable buffer, and I always start from my home with a full charge. But I guess there are many who skip charging at home completely and rolls into office with 2 bars left and then charge fully here - I could be wrong but given that the Leafs & Volts are charging for several hours everyday, it seems that way. That to me is mooching.

Again though the employer chose to make it free. It isn't like you found some secret way around paying and are getting it for free. The cost to the employer is minimal in "free" electricity. They most likely write it all off anyway. So who really loses? I guess the government gets less tax revenue. Do people that work at companies that give them free breakfast or lunch every day think they are moochers? I highly doubt it. They consider it a perk offered by the employer to retain talent.

 

[johnrhansen]

I feel bad mooching off free electricity every day at my office provided charge point station. When the EV station was planned I insisted that they charge some money, but i was told this was a perk to employees. It is my opinion that installing a few stations and reserving a few spots for EVs in itself is a big perk and we don't need any free electricity on top of that.

But then again I charge only to the extent that gets me back home with some reasonable buffer, and I always start from my home with a full charge. But I guess there are many who skip charging at home completely and rolls into office with 2 bars left and then charge fully here - I could be wrong but given that the Leafs & Volts are charging for several hours everyday, it seems that way. That to me is mooching.

Again though the employer chose to make it free. It isn't like you found some secret way around paying and are getting it for free. The cost to the employer is minimal in "free" electricity. They most likely write it all off anyway. So who really loses? I guess the government gets less tax revenue. Do people that work at companies that give them free breakfast or lunch every day think they are moochers? I highly doubt it. They consider it a perk offered by the employer to retain talent.

It's not mooching taking something that is offered for free, but only if you pay it forward and are generous with others on a later date.