HeyHey
Member
I think it's noteworthy that prototype of PHEV (Volt) was overtaken by the Ford Fusion Energi. I would be much more likely to buy the Fusion over the Volt because of size and styling. It looks like other people think the same thing.
Zythryn said:The i3 was late to he party, that's all.
The Leaf got the first wave of early adopters and has established itself.
The i3 is looking at the tail end of the early adopters and is not shipping in very large numbers yet nationwide.
It does have less utility than the Leaf, and I don't expect it to ever surpass the Leaf in annual sales.
However, it is more fun to drive, and actually would be my 2nd choice for a car if the range was sufficient for our driving habits.
HeyHey said:I think it's noteworthy that prototype of PHEV (Volt) was overtaken by the Ford Fusion Energi. I would be much more likely to buy the Fusion over the Volt because of size and styling. It looks like other people think the same thing.
that's a very bold comment, a car with an average cost of 90k+ isn't all that easy to sell, there are just so many who can afford to buy a TESLAZythryn said:They are selling worldwide and are production limited. If they can build 30k, they can sell 30k.
Ford has plenty of commitment to PEVs, just not to BEVs, because unlike PHEVs they don't think they meet the needs of mainstream consumers yet, at an acceptable price. I agree. They've said from the start that they weren't going to sell FFEs at a loss. Yes, the FFE is available nationally, but it's not advertised, and Ford has done exactly nothing to promote them.jhm614 said:I think it will depend on the manufacturers commitment to BEVs. The Ford Focus Electric is available nationally, is 35K before state, federal and manufacturer incentives and, I would argue, a better looking car than the Leaf. Yet it sells 10X less. Why? Ford's (and Ford dealer's) commitment to EVs. If Ford had the same commitment as Nissan - in-house production, incremental improvements, driving the price down - the FFE would see the same growth curve as the Leaf. You might be able to make the same argument with about the iMiev.GRA said:The Volt has national competition, and the LEAF still doesn't. Once it does I expect LEAF numbers will drop as the competition takes away sales, but total sub-$40k BEV sales will continue to rise.
I just hope that Nissan hits it out of the park with Leaf 2.0 so they can maintain the market leadership position.
I agree. I think the B-class will take a lot of sales from the BEV i3 and the hardcore BEV fanboys who turn up their noses at the REx but want more range, and if M-B adds QC capability (dumb that it didn't have it from the start) the gap will only widen. The B-class may even skim off some sales of upper end LEAFs, as it's the first BEV that provides a real 100 mile EPA range for less than $43k MSRP (actually $42,050 plus D&H etc.). It doesn't have the range of the RAV4 but it's almost $8k less base, although comparably equipped the numbers are a lot closer. Of course, Toyota is putting a lot more on the hood than M-B is at the moment, so that evens things out a lot.TomT said:I'm not. I don't believe it is a car that is going to appeal to a significant number of EV aficionados outside of the BMW EV faithful... Once those sales to the faithful are concluded, it is going to be an even harder sell. BMW severely misjudged in my opinion.evnow said:Surprised by the low i3 number. In most places you can walk into a dealership and buy i3 off the lot - yet there are people still waiting for their reserved cars.
It's highly variable by area. In the Bay Area, many Chevy dealers have PV carports with multiple charging points under them, and lots of Volts and Spark EVs.adric22 said:HeyHey said:I think it's noteworthy that prototype of PHEV (Volt) was overtaken by the Ford Fusion Energi. I would be much more likely to buy the Fusion over the Volt because of size and styling. It looks like other people think the same thing.
The Volt is a vastly superior car, and can be purchased for less money (since it gets a larger tax credit). The difference as to why one is selling better than another can easily be explained by a trip down the street to look at two car dealers. Our local Ford Dealer has many of these in stock on their lot, an open charging station in the front, and advertising about the cars, as well as one on the showroom floor. The Chevy Dealer sitting next to them has 1 Volt hidden way in the back like they are ashamed of it.
Why did you put the words "without subsidies" in there? Do you think Ford cares if the customer pays the entire price of the car or if the government pays part?GRA said:Once battery costs come down to the point where BEVs with acceptable range sell without subsidies for about the same price as ICEs, then Ford will devote more energy to BEVs.
It seems Ford has no problems selling subsidized PHEVs... Also, FFE also looks completely normal to me. I like how it looks!GRA said:In the meantime, Energis are getting their customers used to plugging in, in cars that look completely normal.
Since Tesla makes the drivetrain, it's a bit hard for me to see MB as being committed to BEVs. I realize that they are selling these nationwide, but so is Ford with the FFE. All told, I imagine the B-class will sell about as well as the Rav4EV and will have about the same number of problems.GRA said:I agree. I think the B-class will take a lot of sales from the BEV i3 and the hardcore BEV fanboys who turn up their noses at the REx but want more range, and if M-B adds QC capability (dumb that it didn't have it from the start) the gap will only widen. The B-class may even skim off some sales of upper end LEAFs, as it's the first BEV that provides a real 100 mile EPA range for less than $43k MSRP (actually $42,050 plus D&H etc.). It doesn't have the range of the RAV4 but it's almost $8k less base, although comparably equipped the numbers are a lot closer. Of course, Toyota is putting a lot more on the hood than M-B is at the moment, so that evens things out a lot.
If that's true, then how do you explain some Nissan dealers selling boatloads of LEAFs?ranss12 said:I don't think that Ford, and the other major car manufacturers for that matter, have a business plan that lets their dealers make money on BEVs.
Where are the high volume LEAF dealers anyhow ?RegGuheert said:If that's true, then how do you explain some Nissan dealers selling boatloads of LEAFs?ranss12 said:I don't think that Ford, and the other major car manufacturers for that matter, have a business plan that lets their dealers make money on BEVs.
In Pennsylvania, perhaps?KJD said:Where are the high volume LEAF dealers anyhow ?RegGuheert said:If that's true, then how do you explain some Nissan dealers selling boatloads of LEAFs?
But perhaps I misunderstood: I'm not sure "Butt-loads" is the same unit as "boatloads"! :lol: :lol:KillaWhat said:We have 1 Nissan dealer who really cared about the Leaf, learned what needed to be learned, and has people with the know-how to sell and support the car.
They sell Butt-loads of them
They have every color sitting on their lot, ready to go.
ranss12 said:Maybe Nissan is hoping that when BEV families purchase their 'trip' car, they will give Nissan ICEs more consideration than would otherwise be the case. that might also be the reason that Nissan doesn't come out with a longer range LEAF - it would cannabalize potential ICE buyers.
I don't think those that shop EVs shop ICEs in the same way... When we replaced our ICE a couple of years ago we didn't even give a thought to Nissan as they made nothing that appealed to us...
I don't see much crossover from EV to ICE within a manufacturer's line... They are two completely different things with completely different rationale driving them...
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