2013 Leaf will add 6.6kW & new efficient heater

[FairwoodRed]

Even among owners today, not all of us are “sensible” There is no TOU here in Seattle and because of it, I charge as soon as I get home. Even if we had TOU, I might still charge when I get home sometimes, because I want enough range to go to a movie down the road. On Wednesdays, I find myself charging all day long because of how far I have to drive.

I, for one, would welcome a 6.6k charger as I would see its benefits at least weekly.

 

[hambrook]

My 2012 Nissan Leaf is due to be delivered in the next month; and I am curious about the 6.6kw charging coming on the 2013 model.

Why can't this be retrospectively fitted as an upgrade to the 2011/12 models?

If it's the same battery pack (already capable of taking a Rapid Charge thru CHAdeMO), the same J1772 socket which is techically capable of taking 32A / 6.6kw on other EVs, then what is different from a hardware or software perspective that enables this?

And whatever the difference is, could this be either retrofitted in a Nissan Leaf
or enabled in an external charging unit?

 

[cwerdna]

My 2012 Nissan Leaf is due to be delivered in the next month; and I am curious about the 6.6kw charging coming on the 2013 model.

Why can't this be retrospectively fitted as an upgrade to the 2011/12 models?

If it's the same battery pack (already capable of taking a Rapid Charge thru CHAdeMO), the same J1772 socket which is techically capable of taking 32A / 6.6kw on other EVs, then what is different from a hardware or software perspective that enables this?

And whatever the difference is, could this be either retrofitted in a Nissan Leaf
or enabled in an external charging unit?

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=155574#p155574" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=186519#p186519" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=69238#p69238" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[planet4ever]

If it's the same battery pack (already capable of taking a Rapid Charge thru CHAdeMO), the same J1772 socket which is techically capable of taking 32A / 6.6kw on other EVs, then what is different from a hardware or software perspective that enables this?

Well, obviously the charger itself will be different. That is the unit in the hump behind the rear seat that takes 120v or 240v AC and converts it to a variable DC voltage as requested by the battery management system. I would expect that a unit capable of handling twice as much power would be physically larger. Chargers typically include transformers, whose size is related to the amount of current they can handle. The 6.6kW charger might not even fit in that hump; indeed there is a strong rumor that it is going to be relocated to be under the hood. If you look under there you will see that a major reorganization of the components is likely to be required. There is no way that could be done as a retrofit.

And whatever the difference is, could this be either retrofitted in a Nissan Leaf or enabled in an external charging unit?

By "external charging unit" do you mean the EVSE? If so, the J1772 interface includes communication from the EVSE to the charger as to its maximum amperage, and most EVSEs already support the 30A-32A current that would allow a 6.6kW charger to work at peak power. But if, on the other hand, you are talking about moving the charger outside the car, then J1772 no longer applies, and the charger would have to meet CHAdeMO interfaces. That can be done without any change to the car (if it includes the QC port) but apparently it would be very expensive - probably more than $5K even for a low power unit.

Ray

 

[kubel]

My 2012 Nissan Leaf is due to be delivered in the next month; and I am curious about the 6.6kw charging coming on the 2013 model.

Why can't this be retrospectively fitted as an upgrade to the 2011/12 models?

If it's the same battery pack (already capable of taking a Rapid Charge thru CHAdeMO), the same J1772 socket which is techically capable of taking 32A / 6.6kw on other EVs, then what is different from a hardware or software perspective that enables this?

And whatever the difference is, could this be either retrofitted in a Nissan Leaf
or enabled in an external charging unit?

Wiring and labor are the two big hurdles, both would make retrofitting a 2011-2012 extremely expensive.

 

[neal77]

I am planning on getting Phil's EVSE upgrade so I am wondering is it worth it to wait for the 2013 or just get the 2012 Leaf. IF the upgrade will only allow to car to charge at 3.3 would it be worth it to get the 2013 then?

 

[QueenBee]

I am planning on getting Phil's EVSE upgrade so I am wondering is it worth it to wait for the 2013 or just get the 2012 Leaf. IF the upgrade will only allow to car to charge at 3.3 would it be worth it to get the 2013 then?

I'm guessing based on your location the efficient heater isn't going to be a big deal for you. The 6.6kw charger though is a very nice upgrade if you are going to be using public chargers and plan on driving more than the ~70 mile range. Reducing full charging time for ~7 hours to 3.5 hours is very nice.

The question I would have is will the 2013 cost more than the 2012? My guess would be yes which for me means I would still be happy with what I paid for my 2011 as the upgrades in the 2012 and 2013 aren't worth the thousands they've been so far.

I think it'll really come down to how much daily driving you are going to be planning for and if non DCQC will be used to achieve that.

The Rev2 16 amp EVSEUpgrade will only charge at the 3.3KWh max in the 2011/2012 LEAFs. If the 2013 LEAF comes with the same EVSE and can thus be upgraded you'll only be able to get 3.3KWh out of it. There are many EVSE's that can be installed at your house which will be capable of providing the full 6.6KWh to the 2013 LEAF.

In any case I think you'll be very happy with the car!

 

[Randy]

Neal,
This may be simplistic, but here is how I would make that decision on whether to wait for the 2013 model and pay extra for 6.6kW charging...

* Will you charge mostly in your garage for your daily driving? If so, then 3.3kW will take care of the majority of your charging needs and you have all night to get the car re-charged. This means the 2012 model would probably work for you...

* Will you need to charge in public more than charging in your garage? If so, then you'll appreciate the faster charging speed that 6.6kW will bring. You'll have to wait until December 2012 to get a 2013 model, and possibly longer since that's when the first ones will come from TN. And we've already been told my Mark Perry at Nissan that the 6.6kW charger will be an option or add-on to the car....

Which of the two situations above do you fall into the most?

 

[edatoakrun]

I am planning on getting Phil's EVSE upgrade so I am wondering is it worth it to wait for the 2013 or just get the 2012 Leaf. IF the upgrade will only allow to car to charge at 3.3 would it be worth it to get the 2013 then?

If you have any confidence in the latest CA State plan to install DC chargers, allowing close to 50 kW, I don't see how the 3.3 or 6.6 kW on-board charger would matter much, to Southern Ca Leaf owners, unless you have a particular need for faster-than-3.3-charging at home.

...The Los Angeles Basin would receive 110 fast-charging "freedom stations" under the plan, as well as other infrastructure. San Francisco would receive 55 stations, San Diego 20, and the San Joaquin Valley 15. Twenty percent of all the new gear for electric vehicles, or EVs, would go to low-income areas...

http://articles.latimes.com/2012/apr/30/local/la-me-gs-settlement-brings-ev-infrastructure-to-california-20120430" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm still hoping that if Nissan makes a faster on-board charger an option, it will allow some level higher than 6.6 kW.

Some public J1772 locations already support faster than 6.6 kW J1772, and most public locations could easily accommodate higher kW L2.

 

[neal77]

Thanks for the answers guys. it does help. I will be doing just about all my charging at home so I thnk the 2012 will work out good. I am planning on leasing so i think I will be able to get a better deal on a 2012 also.

Another question. I am going to have a 240 outlet installed in my house. Not sure on what plug to have them put in. I was thinking just to put in a plug that fits the evse upgrade. But if I sell the house I don't think that plug would be good to anyone unless they have the same use for it. Do you think it would be better to put a standard 240 plug in instead?

 

[essaunders]

Thanks for the answers guys. it does help. I will be doing just about all my charging at home so I thnk the 2012 will work out good. I am planning on leasing so i think I will be able to get a better deal on a 2012 also.

Another question. I am going to have a 240 outlet installed in my house. Not sure on what plug to have them put in. I was thinking just to put in a plug that fits the evse upgrade. But if I sell the house I don't think that plug would be good to anyone unless they have the same use for it. Do you think it would be better to put a standard 240 plug in instead?

plugs can be swapped very very easily. The bigger question is whether you run wire for 20A, 30A, or 40A....

 

[ERG4ALL]

Our AeroVironment EVSE is hard wired. Thus, I just put wire nuts over the end of the #8 wire and left them in a junction box. When they installed my unit, the electrician who was associated with AV said that if the EVSE was more than 30 feet away from the breaker box, then an extra switch would need to be installed. Fortunately, my breaker was within 30 feet so the install was quite simple and less costly.

 

[KeiJidosha]

...If you have any confidence in the latest CA State plan to install DC chargers, allowing close to 50 kW, I don't see how the 3.3 or 6.6 kW on-board charger would matter much, to Southern Ca Leaf owners, unless you have a particular need for faster-than-3.3-charging at home...

Good caveat

 

[neal77]

plugs can be swapped very very easily. The bigger question is whether you run wire for 20A, 30A, or 40A....

Phil told me to run 8 guage wire so that's the plan.

 

[QueenBee]

plugs can be swapped very very easily. The bigger question is whether you run wire for 20A, 30A, or 40A....

Phil told me to run 8 guage wire so that's the plan.

Part of the problem there is no standard 240 volt plug So who ever comes next and wants to use it will probably not be using the same as you. As mentioned they can be switched easily and since you are running #8 wire you or the future owner can pretty much put whatever they want there. So my recommendation would be to install the 20 amp breaker and L6-20R for your EVSEUpgrade since that's what you will be using it for.

I suspect that in a year from now you'll be glad that you bought now instead of waiting 6+ months for 2013

 

[DANandNAN]

Queenbee,
It seems like the overall price increase goes against what a lot of Leaf posters think will happen. The logic behind it is that, it'll be made without an unfavorable exchange rate, the same for the battery. Then there's the fact that it's already expensive and a price reaching $40K gives some people a bad feeling.

I do completely agree with you on how nice 6.6 charging would be. Being able to add 20+ miles during a lunch stop is great and why we're getting a 6.6.

Neal,
This may be simplistic, but here is how I would make that decision on whether to wait for the 2013 model and pay extra for 6.6kW charging...

* Will you charge mostly in your garage for your daily driving? If so, then 3.3kW will take care of the majority of your charging needs and you have all night to get the car re-charged. This means the 2012 model would probably work for you...

* Will you need to charge in public more than charging in your garage? If so, then you'll appreciate the faster charging speed that 6.6kW will bring. You'll have to wait until December 2012 to get a 2013 model, and possibly longer since that's when the first ones will come from TN. And we've already been told my Mark Perry at Nissan that the 6.6kW charger will be an option or add-on to the car....

Which of the two situations above do you fall into the most?

I think the situations implies that he won't install wiring capable of 6.6 in his garage, and that he won't need to charge at home during a stopover. One of the reasons we're buying a 6.6 Leaf or FFE is because we have stops for lunch, stops for clothing changes, kids sometimes need naps and lots of errands and 65 miles of range/day (which is what situation 1 implies) isn't enough. Just something for families & busier folks to keep in mind.

 

[DANandNAN]

If you have any confidence in the latest CA State plan to install DC chargers, allowing close to 50 kW, I don't see how the 3.3 or 6.6 kW on-board charger would matter much, to Southern Ca Leaf owners, unless you have a particular need for faster-than-3.3-charging at home.

snip

I'm still hoping that if Nissan makes a faster on-board charger an option, it will allow some level higher than 6.6 kW.

Some public J1772 locations already support faster than 6.6 kW J1772, and most public locations could easily accommodate higher kW L2.

Actual ownership costs and cost for to use still hasn't really been determined, but with L3 speeds being lowered to avoid demand charges that slows things down. A bit faster L2 would really challenge the slowed down L3.

 

[dgpcolorado]

plugs can be swapped very very easily. The bigger question is whether you run wire for 20A, 30A, or 40A....

Phil told me to run 8 guage wire so that's the plan.

One thing to consider is the type of receptacle used. I ran 10 gauge wire and found it a bit difficult to fit into a standard L6-20 receptacle; I would think 8 gauge would be even more difficult. That might make using a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet a better match for 8 gauge wire (with an appropriate adapter to L6-20, of course).

Or, perhaps, there are L6-20 outlets that can easily handle big gauge wire that I haven't seen (I got mine at Home Depot).

Just a "heads-up": try before you buy.

 

[EVDRIVER]

plugs can be swapped very very easily. The bigger question is whether you run wire for 20A, 30A, or 40A....

Phil told me to run 8 guage wire so that's the plan.

One thing to consider is the type of receptacle used. I ran 10 gauge wire and found it a bit difficult to fit into a standard L6-20 receptacle; I would think 8 gauge would be even more difficult. That might make using a 14-30 or 14-50 outlet a better match for 8 gauge wire (with an appropriate adapter to L6-20, of course).

Or, perhaps, there are L6-20 outlets that can easily handle big gauge wire that I haven't seen (I got mine at Home Depot).

Just a "heads-up": try before you buy.

This is not an issue, you simply wire nut 12G pigtails to the 8G in the box.

 

[dgpcolorado]

This is not an issue, you simply wire nut 12G pigtails to the 8G in the box.

You're right. I hadn't thought of that.