2013 Leaf will add 6.6kW & new efficient heater

[gsleaf]

You'll have to wait until December 2012 to get a 2013 model, and possibly longer since that's when the first ones will come from TN.

Are we sure about this? Why wouldn't the plant in Japan switch over to making the 2013 model before the year end?

 

[TEG]

I wonder if 2013 LEAFs will diverge between Japan/USA/UK ?
Different styling and options between them?
Or will they all be the same?

 

[planet4ever]

You'll have to wait until December 2012 to get a 2013 model, and possibly longer since that's when the first ones will come from TN.

Are we sure about this? Why wouldn't the plant in Japan switch over to making the 2013 model before the year end?

There has been speculation that Japanese-built 2013's might not have the 6.6kW charger option. Given the number of DCQC chargers in Japan, 6.6kW may not be worth much there. Besides, Japan doesn't even have 200v or more commonly available, only 100v, so a 6.6kW charger would be pulling at least 70 amps from the wall. How would you like to manhandle a charging cable containing #4 wire?

Ray

 

[N952JL]

You'll have to wait until December 2012 to get a 2013 model, and possibly longer since that's when the first ones will come from TN.

Are we sure about this? Why wouldn't the plant in Japan switch over to making the 2013 model before the year end?

the MY2013 from Japan might not be available in the US market. They might be shipped to other markets and let the US market wait for the TN plant.

 

[Douglas57]

I hope the Tenn. plant is ahead of schedule, I am very interested to see what comes out of the plant.

 

[DANandNAN]

I hope the Tenn. plant is ahead of schedule, I am very interested to see what comes out of the plant.

+1 I hope it's improved or I'll be kicking myself for not buying an FFE months earlier.

 

[QueenBee]

+1 I hope it's improved or I'll be kicking myself for not buying an FFE months earlier.

Fossil Fuel Equivalent?

Oh, Ford Focus. Has it always been called the Ford Focus Electric and not the longer Ford Focus EV/Electric Vehicle?

 

[grommet]

FFE = Ford Focus Electric; Ford's low-volume retrofit EV, designed with Canada's Magna.

 

[DANandNAN]

+1 I hope it's improved or I'll be kicking myself for not buying an FFE months earlier.

Fossil Fuel Equivalent?

Oh, Ford Focus. Has it always been called the Ford Focus Electric and not the longer Ford Focus EV/Electric Vehicle?

LOL, that's funny.

I dunno, but abbreviations are much easier to deal with.

grommet,
I don't know if the FFE will be low volume or not. 6.6 standard, thermal management for the battery and better range should be a good combo. It is slightly more expensive than the Leaf.

 

[TonyWilliams]

+1 I hope it's improved or I'll be kicking myself for not buying an FFE months earlier.

Fossil Fuel Equivalent?

Oh, Ford Focus. Has it always been called the Ford Focus Electric and not the longer Ford Focus EV/Electric Vehicle?

LOL, that's funny.

I dunno, but abbreviations are much easier to deal with.

grommet,
I don't know if the FFE will be low volume or not. 6.6 standard, thermal management for the battery and better range should be a good combo. It is slightly more expensive than the Leaf.

No fast charge of any kind (and I can tell you, I'm never going back to an EV without that capability), smaller than LEAF (I don't fit well in it), significantly reduced trunk capacity, for more money than LEAF. Even Ford doesn't think they'll sell more than 5000.

So, yes, it will be low volume. Very low. The bigger question is will LEAF ever be high volume?

 

[davewill]

... The bigger question is will LEAF ever be high volume?

If it doesn't, it won't be for lack of trying on Nissan's part, which is all I can ask.

 

[GRA]

grommet,
I don't know if the FFE will be low volume or not. 6.6 standard, thermal management for the battery and better range should be a good combo. It is slightly more expensive than the Leaf.

No fast charge of any kind (and I can tell you, I'm never going back to an EV without that capability), smaller than LEAF (I don't fit well in it), significantly reduced trunk capacity, for more money than LEAF. Even Ford doesn't think they'll sell more than 5000.

So, yes, it will be low volume. Very low. The bigger question is will LEAF ever be high volume?

Tony, for the reasons you mention I've always been skeptical of the FFE's sales potential outside of areas with extreme climates, but I think the recent reports of Leaf batteries suffering degradation well above expectation in hot areas will boost the sales of BEVs with ATMS generally. I'd certainly not buy a BEV w/o one if I were living anywhere the temp went above 90-100 deg. F. regularly in the summer, until far more complete info is available. At this point, $2-4k more for a FFE looks like cheap insurance, and I imagine most of the people in Phoenix etc. who bought Leafs would have gladly bought FFEs instead if they'd been available at the time and they'd known what they do now. [Added] I expect we'll start seeing capacity losses reported in places like the Central Valley some months after those from desert areas and places like Texas.

Actually, the best under $40k hot weather BEV bet may be the Coda, as its LiFePO4 chemistry is supposed to be less sensitive to high temps than LMO, and to have a wider usable charge range and a lower degradation rate (albeit a greater capacity loss in cold temps - the ATMS should minimize that). I'd be pushing those points in Coda's advertising, as sales seem to have been almost non-existent for obvious reasons. Barring some other superior chemistry, what we need is some major manufacturer to come out with a BEV with the same chemistry/ATMS as the Coda (GM's Spark?).

In DANandNAN's case the need for QC is far less, cause they can always take the Volt for trips outside the FFE's range (with far less inconvenience than QC'ing), and the 6.6 kW charger in the FFE provides a lot more useful top-up charging during local driving than a 3.3. With that vehicle combo I'd probably not bother with QC either unless I regularly had to drive the FFE beyond the battery range when the Volt was unavailable. If the BEV was my sole car it would be a different matter.

 

[DANandNAN]

In DANandNAN's case the need for QC is far less, cause they can always take the Volt for trips outside the FFE's range (with far less inconvenience than QC'ing), and the 6.6 kW charger in the FFE provides a lot more useful top-up charging during local driving than a 3.3. With that vehicle combo I'd probably not bother with QC either unless I regularly had to drive the FFE beyond the battery range when the Volt was unavailable. If the BEV was my sole car it would be a different matter.

I don't think "QC" should matter that much for most buyers. These are city cars, that a few adventurous folks will take on road trips occasionally. Most folks don't want to take a car that, due to range & charging limitations, is limited to 40MPH (actual miles traveled per hour). And, probably much slower than that if the DC station is throttled down to 20kw or not conveniently located.

Well with QC you suddenly have an unlimited range EV. What's not to like???

A hard 45 mph speed limit that can't be broken no matter how fast you try to go?

Notes:

• Perhaps it should be less than 70%, but I am using Phil's report that "80%" is really out of total capacity, and more like 85% of available.
• Going below LBW won't help; it will just increase the charging time.
• If you go beyond 80% the charging slows dramatically, and the numbers get worse.
• 25 minutes charge time is very optimistic, since you need to include the time to get off the freeway and get to the charging station.
• 25 minutes becomes even more unrealistic when you realize you might have to wait for someone else to finish charging.
• I haven't allowed for the fact that multiple charges are likely to overheat the battery, forcing even longer waits.

Ray

Then there's the cost. Anyway, most folks, and even most Leaf owners, would rather take an ICE than go that slow, which is why the Leaf, FFE and Coda are city cars.

Now, if you're living in an apartment or condo and don't have access to a garage, then absolutely you have to consider the DC port because you have no other great option. But, I don't think the lack of a DC port will break the FFE.

I haven't had the opportunity to sit in a FFE but we did pile into a Focus and liked it a lot more than the Leaf we'd just climbed out of. Maybe if I spent as much time in a Focus as I've spent in a Leaf I'd find more to not like about it. The FFE trunk isn't as spacious, but I'd like to see it in person instead of online http://www.ford.com/electric/focuselectric/2012/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[TonyWilliams]

Guy, the LEAF battery issues are quite simply a non-event when you lease.

 

[surfingslovak]

Guy, the LEAF battery issues are quite simply a non-event when you lease.

+1

I hope that Nissan will come up with even more attractive leases. Another possibility is an optional capacity warranty or prepaid battery pack replacement, much like Tesla did with the Roadster, for those that prefer to own the vehicle outright.

 

[QueenBee]

Guy, the LEAF battery issues are quite simply a non-event when you lease.

Unless you planned on buying the car after the lease

 

[ztanos]

I don't want to lease a car and then hand it over after two years with nothing buy my tennies to keep me company. I know that this is new technology, but leasing sucks.

 

[Herm]

Not really, you are paying for the depreciation plus some finance charges and fees.. you will always pay for that even if you buy it, plus you have the option of buying the car at the end of the lease if they give you a good value and the battery is still good.. if the battery problems hit the value of used Leafs then you wont be affected either.

A car is a depreciating asset.. it does not increase in value, leasing gives you more options.

 

[QueenBee]

Not really, you are paying for the depreciation plus some finance charges and fees.. you will always pay for that even if you buy it, plus you have the option of buying the car at the end of the lease if they give you a good value and the battery is still good.. if the battery problems hit the value of used Leafs then you wont be affected either.

A car is a depreciating asset.. it does not increase in value, leasing gives you more options.

Exactly, there is a little bit more in lease fees and the interest rate they charged vs. other financing was a bit higher. There is also the issue that if the car is totaled they want to keep all the money the insurance company pays even if that is more than what you owe.

I went in to it leasing as a just in case things didn't work option and if they did I buy it and that extra insurance didn't cost too much. Shortly after picking it up I realized how much I loved the car and started to think in retrospect that extra cost was silly but now after this I'm a bit cautious now. In any case it's very nice to have options, even if they did end up costing a little bit.

 

[GRA]

Guy, the LEAF battery issues are quite simply a non-event when you lease.

Depends on how much of the capacity you require throughout your lease, and whether or not the degradation rate remains steady or drops off in high temps, info that we simply don't have (at least publicly) at the moment. If you know you'll never have to drive more than 40 miles without recharging, you're probably fine. Get to 50 and you may be okay, but over that?

I'd be much happier if all the companies were required to advertise their EVs with guaranteed minimum ranges in worst case conditions (incl. degradation, temp etc.) instead of best case ranges. That's how I always designed AE systems - if it's a critical application, it has to be able meet the minimum performance spec at any point during its anticipated lifetime. Anything beyond that is gravy.