2013 LEAF Pricing and Features-S:28,800 SV:31,820 SL:34,840

[SanDust]

because in CA I can't use my phone while driving Good ol nanny state

Not an issue actually. A NAV device is not being used as a telephone and the statute bans the use of a wireless telephone. Additionally the statute permits the use of a hands free phone so if you have a holder, which you want, then even if you were using the phone you'd be OK.

 

[Stoaty]

because in CA I can't use my phone while driving Good ol nanny state

You equate making the road safe for other drivers by limiting cell phone use while driving to a "nanny state"???

http://www.nsc.org/safety_road/Distracted_Driving/Documents/Attributable%20Risk%20Summary.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I suppose the state should also let people drive drunk?

 

[evnow]

because in CA I can't use my phone while driving Good ol nanny state

You equate making the road safe for other drivers by limiting cell phone use while driving to a "nanny state"???

A good example of a nany state is requiring seat belt. Anything that could affect other people is not an example of a "nanny" state.

 

[thankyouOB]

because in CA I can't use my phone while driving Good ol nanny state

You equate making the road safe for other drivers by limiting cell phone use while driving to a "nanny state"???

A good example of a nany state is requiring seat belt. Anything that could affect other people is not an example of a "nanny" state.

using your definition, requiring seat belts to be worn is NOT nanny state; i.e. it affects other people in that we all pay if you are injured, hospitalized, require long-term care. If you die and leave widow or children, we often offset or suffer some of those costs.
also, too insurance rates go up, government costs go up, work days are missed, productivity falls.
it is a public good that more people are not injured or suffer greater injuries or death in car crashes.

 

[hansr220]

Absolutely!
I'm a rare buyer of this car, (<$30,000 a year) and cannot take full advantage of the Federal Tax credits. Being so, instead of buying, I leased for the first time. I did like the fact that battery life was a non issue in this scenario. The dealer took the $7500, plus $5500 dealer cash. The buyout at the end is still too much for me to consider, but I do like driving it now!

Relatively pleased. The S is not as inexpensive as I would have hoped, but then again, it's not as costly as I expected, either. The name of the game with EV growth is price, price, price. Offer a real stripper, like the iMiev base, if needed. Something around the 24k range. Cut the power windows, locks, alarms, and fancy finishes if needed. Offer a real base model, something taxi drivers would be keen on even. Something even, gulp, on par with the base Versa. A stripped car if there ever was one. People would love being able to get an EV for well less than even a similar gasoline counterpart --- and still be able to say they only spend a fraction on 'fuel' and maintenance. With rebates one could cut the cost to 15 or 16k, a very affordable level.

Still, things will be tough because, still, the federal and state EV tax credits are not universally applied, not everyone even qualifies for the full amounts, and one still has to pay local sales tax on the full sales price, before the credits -- a tax almost double the amount compared to a similar-sized gasoline hatchback. EV buyers should increase their efforts to demand reform of those credits to full rebates at the time of sale. Or, perhaps, also demand lower sales tax rates for EVs versus conventional vehicles. I'm sure they probably do this in Europe.

 

[madbrain]

you can always get the full 7.5k if you use your ira to roth conversion ability.

How does that work if you have never been eligible to deduct your IRA contributions ?

 

[madbrain]

I don't understand leasing given that these cars are retaining their value very well (as did the first gen Prius), it seems like you're much better off buying, getting all the rebates, and selling after 2-3 years. I think you'd end up way ahead. To each his own of course, but I don't see the money working out.

You obviously haven't done the math like many of us lessees have. If the car really retains value we can always buy our lease at the end also.
But the fact is that the Leaf has not retained its value for a variety of reasons.

 

[madbrain]

Does anybody know how this will affect residual prices for those of us who have leased the Leaf?

Not at all. The residual prices are set and don't change.

I don't understand. A three year old car has a degraded battery and other wear and tear disadvantages. If newer cars are cheaper why wouldn't this make them less valuable?

It does. But you probably would have to return the car to Nissan first . Then you could offer to buy it back for much less than the residual lease value.

 

[wantonsoup]

You obviously haven't done the math like many of us lessees have. If the car really retains value we can always buy our lease at the end also.
But the fact is that the Leaf has not retained its value for a variety of reasons.

I think my posts show I have done the math and don't see it adding up. I know you just got your car 2 months ago so it might offend you when someone says you didn't do the smartest thing, but don't take it personally. You leasing gives Nissan more money which in turn allows them to offer me a better price when I buy. :ugeek: But seriously, as I mentioned before, even if you get "lucky" and they set the residual a little too high, to purchase it you incur lots of fees that might erase that advantage. A friend once went through this and didn't even realize that after taxes and fees they could have bought a newer car with less miles with the same money as the off-lease purchase. Something to consider in any event. I know Nissan was doing great lease deals with the 2012s recently, so maybe you got lucky with the numbers. But we're not talking about 2012, we are talking about 2013 which won't have the same incentives.

 

[thankyouOB]

you can always get the full 7.5k if you use your ira to roth conversion ability.

How does that work if you have never been eligible to deduct your IRA contributions ?

you convert money from the IRA to the ROTH; thus creating enough income to have a tax liability of more than 7.5k.

 

[scottf200]

OT!

you can always get the full 7.5k if you use your ira to roth conversion ability.

How does that work if you have never been eligible to deduct your IRA contributions ?

you convert money from the IRA to the ROTH; thus creating enough income to have a tax liability of more than 7.5k.

If you contributed to your non-deductable traditional IRA because you did deductable contributions to your 401k (for example) then the answer is during the conversion you are taxed on the earnings. ie. over the years you contributed 100K to your non-ded trad IRA but it has earned 10K. Converting that to the ROTH IRA means you need to pay taxes on the 10K and will end up with a 110K ROTH IRA. HTH

 

[hill]

Has Nissan announced the EPA numbers for the 2013 yet ?

I don't think so - but why would they be any different?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Has Nissan announced the EPA numbers for the 2013 yet ?

I don't think so - but why would they be any different?

The range will increase and the big questionfor for some is how much although many of us would see a mimnimal increase due to our already efficient driving habits where as the enhancements are geared towards the "average" driver so i predict 80

 

[evnow]

Has Nissan announced the EPA numbers for the 2013 yet ?

I don't think so - but why would they be any different?

Because they will use the new 5 cycle test (instead of 2 cycle + 30% adjustment).

Ofcourse, I expect some real life range changes because of the heat pump.

 

[madbrain]

You obviously haven't done the math like many of us lessees have. If the car really retains value we can always buy our lease at the end also.
But the fact is that the Leaf has not retained its value for a variety of reasons.

I think my posts show I have done the math and don't see it adding up. I know you just got your car 2 months ago so it might offend you when someone says you didn't do the smartest thing, but don't take it personally. You leasing gives Nissan more money which in turn allows them to offer me a better price when I buy. :ugeek: But seriously, as I mentioned before, even if you get "lucky" and they set the residual a little too high, to purchase it you incur lots of fees that might erase that advantage. A friend once went through this and didn't even realize that after taxes and fees they could have bought a newer car with less miles with the same money as the off-lease purchase. Something to consider in any event. I know Nissan was doing great lease deals with the 2012s recently, so maybe you got lucky with the numbers. But we're not talking about 2012, we are talking about 2013 which won't have the same incentives.

Yes, I did get a great price. I put only $1000 down on my 2012 SL. The lease payment is $249 + tax for 39 months which is $267 all inclusive.
I already received the $2500 rebate check from California. So actually so far I have received net cash to drive the car .
Over 39 months it will average to (1000 + 267*38 -2500) / 39 = $221.69 /month.
The residual value is about $19000 which IMO will be way too high at 39 months given that many 1-2 year used Leafs are already selling in that price range or even less. I just saw one 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles listed by owner for $16,900 on craigslist in Fremont doing a very quick search.

IMO, the new Leaf models with better technology, such as faster charger on the 2013, higher efficiency, and potentially bigger battery in the future, will only put more pressure on the price of the old ones when the leases are up.

With the lease, I also won't have to worry about battery degradation. The battery replacement costs are still not officially public, so that's a big deal. As an owner it would be a problem if I wanted to either replace it or sell the car.

I was also one who had no way to take advantage of the entire $7500 tax credit on a purchase, so that was yet another reason to lease.

I don't know what the incentives will be on the 2013, we will see what happens. I hope Nissan does really well with it as we need more EVs on the road.

 

[madbrain]

If you contributed to your non-deductable traditional IRA because you did deductable contributions to your 401k (for example) then the answer is during the conversion you are taxed on the earnings. ie. over the years you contributed 100K to your non-ded trad IRA but it has earned 10K. Converting that to the ROTH IRA means you need to pay taxes on the 10K and will end up with a 110K ROTH IRA. HTH

Doesn't work because I already did the conversion of my non-deductible IRA to Roth in previous years. But there wasn't that much gain anyway.
I really didn't have any way to increase taxable income for the year 2012 to benefit from the full $7500 tax credit.

 

[cwerdna]

I just saw one 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles listed by owner for $16,900 on craigslist in Fremont doing a very quick search.

Woah! You got me searching. I found it at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3555281936.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's weird that this guy is put in a bitmap of the text instead of the text itself. And, I noticed that it says "branded title". No thanks.

 

[ENIAC]

I just saw one 2011 Leaf SL with 12k miles listed by owner for $16,900 on craigslist in Fremont doing a very quick search.

Woah! You got me searching. I found it at http://sfbay.craigslist.org/eby/cto/3555281936.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. It's weird that this guy is put in a bitmap of the text instead of the text itself. And, I noticed that it says "branded title". No thanks.

Yep, branded title = zero value. The broker didn't list the VIN. Car was likely totaled in an accident. But vehicles repurchase by the manufacturer are also often resold with a branded title.

 

[aqn]

Any pics of the trunk with the speakers in there? I didn't know it consumed space back there.

At the bottom (where the charger used to be) - something 4" thick can be seen in photos. The subwoofer amp ... ?

Oh great, Nissan did away with the shock tower brace!

 

[aqn]

Best graphic I've seen illustrating features of 2013 models (from OrientExpress post):
http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

So the brakes now have "low friction calipers"? Is "low friction" anything desirable when it comes to brakes?

(Yes, yes, I know they probably are referring to a brake caliper design which reduces the pads' friction on the rotor when not applied.)