2013 B Mode

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I have been driving a Leaf for almost two years and have learned when to take my foot off the accelerator to stop just from the regen action. It becomes intuitive after a while. But I set myself up for a surprise the other day. I always charge to 80% and therefore always have regen available. The other day I charged to 100%, and when I approached the first light about two miles from my home I took my foot off and it felt like the car was flying. I had to get myself out of auto pilot and brake as there was no regen avail at a full charge. Oops.
 
dgpcolorado said:
LauraA said:
I have a new 2013 Leaf (my second Leaf) and I don't really understand B Mode - even after reading these comments. I live in very flat coastal GA. Is it only really useful with hills? Thanks, LauraA
For the most part yes, B mode is most useful descending hills. However, you could use it to slow quickly for an upcoming stop instead of using the brake pedal, assuming you teach yourself when to shift in time to make the stop. That's the short answer. The longer answer:

B mode can also be used for single pedal driving: accelerating and slowing just using the "A" pedal and using the brake pedal only to hold the car still at a stop. With practice this can be the most efficient way to drive. But to do so one has to get over the idea, which some drivers have, that the A pedal is either "on" or "off": stomp it to go, back all the way off to stop. Instead one has to learn to "feather" the A pedal to adjust speed gently, as needed. Also, be aware that in most situations it is more efficient to coast than to use regen braking. The can be done by shifting to neutral or by using the Eco mode and holding the A pedal at zero power, as shown on the energy screen (if you have it on your 2013 model, I believe that the S model might not have it).

All of this is more trouble than it is worth for some people but it gets fairly easy with practice for those concerned with driving efficiently. It helps if you view it as a game: "how efficiently can I make this trip?" While driving efficiently isn't necessary for short trips it is helpful to know how to do it when trying to stretch the range of a LEAF on longer trips.

FWIW, I am envious of the B mode on your 2013 LEAF. I wish I had it!

Thanks so much for your reply. I probably won't actually use the B mode - wish that I could pass it on to you! I'm pretty much of a "grandma" driver at 67, and I think that people my age are great with the Leaf! Take care, LauraA
 
LauraA said:
I have a new 2013 Leaf (my second Leaf) and I don't really understand B Mode - even after reading these comments. I live in very flat coastal GA. Is it only really useful with hills? Thanks, LauraA

its greatest use is for city driving. you can use it for "one foot" driving which avoids the brake pedal and any possible use of friction braking as much as can be possible.

Instead of moving from accelerator to brake, frequently you will slow down enough by just "coasting" in B mode or maybe feathering B mode to control your speed. You dont want to slow down more than you have to since it takes more power to regain speed than you will regen.
 
DesertDenizen said:
The other day I charged to 100%, and when I approached the first light about two miles from my home I took my foot off and it felt like the car was flying. I had to get myself out of auto pilot and brake as there was no regen avail at a full charge. Oops.

I have encountered this myself. But I do with the 2011 ECO mode was more aggressive. I drive in ECO all of the time and the main reason is I prefer the stronger regen. The reason I like it is because with the brake it is difficult to tell how much pressure to apply to get regen but not engage the friction brakes. We've gotten spoiled with the L mode of the Volt, which offers a tremendous amount of regen when letting off the accelerator pedal. When driving the Volt I only use the brakes for panic stops and to actually bring the car to a complete stop at a traffic light, etc. Otherwise the L mode is sufficient for slowing the car down under most circumstances. And the great part is you know all of that deceleration is being regenerated.
 
LauraA said:
Thanks so much for your reply. I probably won't actually use the B mode - wish that I could pass it on to you! I'm pretty much of a "grandma" driver at 67, and I think that people my age are great with the Leaf! Take care, LauraA
There are quite a number of older folks here at MNL, as you can see from this age poll:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm about to transition to senior status next month when I reach the big 6-0. But being an older and mellow driver is all the more reason to experiment with driving efficiently and using the B mode for single pedal driving, I would think...
 
dgpcolorado said:
LauraA said:
Thanks so much for your reply. I probably won't actually use the B mode - wish that I could pass it on to you! I'm pretty much of a "grandma" driver at 67, and I think that people my age are great with the Leaf! Take care, LauraA
There are quite a number of older folks here at MNL, as you can see from this age poll: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll be 75 next month, and if I had B mode I would certainly use it. I like being able to slow down without moving my foot to the brake pedal, and I use ECO most of the time, modulating my "braking" with light pressure on the accelerator, just so I can do that.

I got a chance to ride in a Tesla today, and was drooling over the way the driver could come almost to a complete stop without touching the brake pedal. (Of course that wasn't the only reason I was drooling!)

Ray
 
planet4ever said:
dgpcolorado said:
LauraA said:
Thanks so much for your reply. I probably won't actually use the B mode - wish that I could pass it on to you! I'm pretty much of a "grandma" driver at 67, and I think that people my age are great with the Leaf! Take care, LauraA
There are quite a number of older folks here at MNL, as you can see from this age poll: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I'll be 75 next month, and if I had B mode I would certainly use it. I like being able to slow down without moving my foot to the brake pedal, and I use ECO most of the time, modulating my "braking" with light pressure on the accelerator, just so I can do that.

I got a chance to ride in a Tesla today, and was drooling over the way the driver could come almost to a complete stop without touching the brake pedal. (Of course that wasn't the only reason I was drooling!)

Ray

The regen can be adjusted. The one I drove had no creep and max regen so I never used the brakes.
 
dgpcolorado said:
LauraA said:
Thanks so much for your reply. I probably won't actually use the B mode - wish that I could pass it on to you! I'm pretty much of a "grandma" driver at 67, and I think that people my age are great with the Leaf! Take care, LauraA
There are quite a number of older folks here at MNL, as you can see from this age poll:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=2369" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm about to transition to senior status next month when I reach the big 6-0. But being an older and mellow driver is all the more reason to experiment with driving efficiently and using the B mode for single pedal driving, I would think...

LOL, you have to go another 5 years to be an official Senior. Here, you can get 'Senior' discounts starting at 55, but the Big Stuff not till 65.
 
LEAFfan said:
LOL, you have to go another 5 years to be an official Senior. Here, you can get 'Senior' discounts starting at 55, but the Big Stuff not till 65.
The one I'm waiting for is the Golden Age National Parks pass at age 62. If Congress doesn't kill it before then. I have some pretty amazing National Parks and Monuments in my "backyard": Black Canyon of the Gunnison, Arches, Canyonlands, Mesa Verde, and Colorado National Monument.

Anyone who hasn't been to Arches needs to make the trip.
 
I drive my 2013 SL in Eco and B mode and also i always use the
cruse on and when i hit the brakes it goes to reg with green lights
i now get 95 to 98 Miles on the charge driving 45 to 50 mphs
not like the 58 to 60 miles that i got on the 2011 SL.
A much improvement . :roll:
 
ronwright38 said:
I drive my 2013 SL in Eco and B mode and also i always use the
cruse on and when i hit the brakes it goes to reg with green lights
i now get 95 to 98 Miles on the charge driving 45 to 50 mphs
not like the 58 to 60 miles that i got on the 2011 SL.
A much improvement . :roll:
Trading in an older degraded battery for a new one would likely explain most of the range improvement; I'd be surprised if the new LEAF didn't have greater range over the old one in your area. Increased regen braking isn't a factor in range improvement unless one was driving inefficiently before. Anticipating and coasting when slowing or stopping will beat regen in most situations (except when descending steep hills at high speeds where drag becomes significant).

The improved regen in B mode helps with single pedal driving and it helps with controlling speed on steep hills, if one has any. It doesn't help efficiency or range for the most part.
 
dgpcolorado said:
Trading in an older degraded battery for a new one would likely explain most of the range improvement; I'd be surprised if the new LEAF didn't have greater range over the old one in your area. Increased regen braking isn't a factor in range improvement unless one was driving inefficiently before. Anticipating and coasting when slowing or stopping will beat regen in most situations (except when descending steep hills at high speeds where drag becomes significant).
The improved regen in B mode helps with single pedal driving and it helps with controlling speed on steep hills, if one has any. It doesn't help efficiency or range for the most part.
I will agree with everything except "It doesn't help efficiency or range for the most part". The regen braking for the 13MY has improved efficiency over 11/12. During braking the regen kicks in earlier and cuts out later. The improvement in range overall may be small compared to having a new vs. old battery pack, but it is an improvement.
 
kovalb said:
I will agree with everything except "It doesn't help efficiency or range for the most part". The regen braking for the 13MY has improved efficiency over 11/12. During braking the regen kicks in earlier and cuts out later. The improvement in range overall may be small compared to having a new vs. old battery pack, but it is an improvement.
The point I was trying to make is that increased regen won't help efficiency if you are driving efficiently in the first place. Anticipating slowing and stops using coasting is more efficient than regen braking. Yes, if you brake a lot increased regen will put a bit more energy back into the battery, but if you are doing that you weren't driving efficiently in the first place. So, no, it isn't an improvement in efficiency for someone who already knows how to drive efficiently.

The exception would be for those of us who descend steep hills and need to use braking for speed control and safety. Reduced friction braking and increased regen would be an improvement, assuming that the battery wasn't near 100% charge. That's the main reason why I wish I had the B mode: I wouldn't have to use the brake pedal much to descend my hill.
 
dgpcolorado said:
kovalb said:
I will agree with everything except "It doesn't help efficiency or range for the most part". The regen braking for the 13MY has improved efficiency over 11/12. During braking the regen kicks in earlier and cuts out later. The improvement in range overall may be small compared to having a new vs. old battery pack, but it is an improvement.
The point I was trying to make is that increased regen won't help efficiency if you are driving efficiently in the first place. Anticipating slowing and stops using coasting is more efficient than regen braking. Yes, if you brake a lot increased regen will put a bit more energy back into the battery, but if you are doing that you weren't driving efficiently in the first place. So, no, it isn't an improvement in efficiency for someone who already knows how to drive efficiently.

The exception would be for those of us who descend steep hills and need to use braking for speed control and safety. Reduced friction braking and increased regen would be an improvement, assuming that the battery wasn't near 100% charge. That's the main reason why I wish I had the B mode: I wouldn't have to use the brake pedal much to descend my hill.

+1 Very well said.
 
I have got to agree with dgpcolorado. In my book, 'No (foot of the pedal) regen is the best regen'. Except of course going downhills of which there is none here in DFW area.

If the objective is to maximize range, the most efficient way is to anticipate slow downs, cruise in 'N' and then gently come to stop with the brake after shifting to 'D'. Very often I ease out on the pedal not necessarily to slow down but to maintain speed but this regen kicks in reducing over efficiency. So invariable I shift to 'N'. Essentially my mantra is, if I want to slow down I will depress the brakes gently and let there be a whole lot of regen at that point.I don't want the car to be reducing speed on behalf of me. If I take the foot of the accelerator pedal, I want the car to coast as much possible without reducing speed.

In fact I have gotten better efficiencies in 'D' than in 'ECO' by adopting this strategy. If they can make a car that can go to 'N' automatically everytime I get the foot of the pedal and then go to 'D' automatically when I press it - that would be the best.
 
Since there are so many LEAF newcomers here I think it is best to explain why using lots of regen braking isn't the most efficient way to drive. The oldtimers here take this stuff for granted, having discussed it at length long ago.

The idea of capturing energy of motion (kinetic energy) via regenerative braking is a neat idea. Why waste that energy as heat using friction brakes, right? It is true that if the choice is to use friction brakes or regen braking the choice is easy: go with regen.

However, regenerative braking is somewhat inefficient. Think about what happens: the motor magnetic fields are reversed and the motor, which is directly linked to the wheels via a reduction gear set, then becomes a generator and is used to charge the battery. The problem is that this process loses energy at several steps. Taking energy out of the battery, propelling the car, then using regen braking to put energy back in the battery has considerable losses.

How efficient regen braking is has been much debated here with most guesses falling in the 50% to 70% range. Even at the high end of that range, every time you use regen braking you are only converting 70% of the kinetic energy back to kilowatt-hours in the battery. And when you then use that battery energy to get going again you have additional efficiency losses as the chemical energy in the battery is converted to electricity, which is converted to kinetic energy. At each conversion step there are losses. This is basic physics and I will leave it there.

So, if regen braking is somewhat inefficient, what to do? As the "hypermilers" here well know, the solution is to avoid braking and drive at a constant speed as much as possible. Better to keep the kinetic energy of motion (momentum) going than to convert it back to chemical energy in the battery and then back to kinetic energy again. And one way to do that is to coast when conditions permit; no energy is being drawn from the battery and no energy is being lost to inefficient regen braking.

Of course it isn't possible to always drive at a constant velocity, especially in heavy traffic. But an efficient driver will look ahead and anticipate slowdowns so as to slow gradually. If conditions permit, that stoplight up ahead turns green for example, then one can gradually accelerate back up to speed with most of the kinetic energy retained from not slowing too much.

By contrast, inefficient drivers will brake sharply, losing energy, and then accelerate quickly, having to replace that lost energy from the battery. Since regen braking isn't a completely efficient process some energy is lost during that stop/go conversion. Regen braking is certainly much better than using friction brakes to slow but the most efficient way to drive is to brake as little as possible and try to maintain one's speed where possible.


Before somebody mentions it, there is one exception to the idea that coasting is better than regen and that is when descending hills at high speeds approaching terminal velocity. When moving at terminal velocity the energy from the acceleration of gravity is being lost to aerodynamic drag. In that case it would be better to slow down and recover some of the energy via regen rather than lose it to drag. But, in most cases, coasting to maintain kinetic energy is preferable to the inefficiencies of regen plus accelerating back up to speed again.


For more information about driving efficiently, check out Stoaty's Guide to Energy Efficient Driving of the Leaf.
 
dgpcolorado, I totally agree that coasting is best for efficiency. Personally I drive with one foot and coast down to almost a stop, using as little regen as possible, if traffic permits. My point was only to highlight the improved regen efficiency for the 13MY.
 
Since we are on the topic of B Mode...

Is this capability a mechanical or software change in the 2013 models. The reason I ask is that if it is a software/ECU change, then I would love to have this capability put into my 2012 model. I know that Tesla has done several upgrades to the software in their cars, just wonder if we can do the same with the Leaf. Thanks in advance for your answers.

Jim.
2012 Blue Leaf
7,500 trouble free miles since September 2012
 
Lynchfam1 said:
... Is this capability a mechanical or software change in the 2013 models. The reason I ask is that if it is a software/ECU change, then I would love to have this capability put into my 2012 model. I know that Tesla has done several upgrades to the software in their cars, just wonder if we can do the same with the Leaf. Thanks in advance for your answers. ...
The only "mechanical" part is having the "ECO" switch on the steering wheel to toggle the ECO mode on and off separately from the "B" mode on the shifter. If all you want is for the present ECO mode to have stronger REGEN (not quite the same thing as "B") then, yes, it could all be done in software.......But Nissan will never do it. Doing the QA on a new software feature like that costs money, and Nissan has no incentive.
 
Yes, I was looking for stronger regen. I've driven the Tesla Model S and it has very good regen so you can drive around town without using the brake and just using the accelerator/decelerator pedal. I would like to have that regen with the Leaf so I would use more of the motor/regen and less braking.

Being in the software business I understand the challenges of upgrading existing sw and supporting multiple versions in different models. So I can understand why Nissan would just want me to buy a new model.
 
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