$199/mo for SV, 24mo, 12k miles -- too good to be true?

[ljwobker]

This is not too good to be true.

You're right, it seems like a scam or a bait and switch. I can't say for sure it's not, but I can tell you that two weeks ago I picked up my 2012 Leaf on a 24 month lease at $239/month with $0 down. It was in fact probably just a hair better than the deal you're stating because that $239 included all tax, fees, etc. Normally for me those are $1500 or so, so divided by 24 months is $60 + your 199 = $260.

If you are at all interested in a Leaf do this deal now and don't think on if too long, seriously.

I've tried to tell people about some of the current lease deals on Leafs, but some people are philosophically opposed to leasing and others are just simply too bad, frankly, at math to understand how to make a decision. For this money you have a brand new car, well optioned out, that is absolutely the cheapest car on the road to drive (the iMiev is marginally, only slightly better but a much worse car overall). What do you pay for gas now, $4? If you're at $.11 kWh for your electricity, which is the national average, you'll go about 100 miles on that money, and that does included the charging losses.

As a second car, at these prices, the Leaf is a no-brainer. I mean it.

I'm *normally* opposed to leasing, but not at these prices and certainly not when you factor in the (significant) risk of a major technology shift that drastically changes the real-world value after 24 months. I'm more than happy to have Nissan pick up that risk.

I'm really trying to figure out where those numbers come from, and if I can realistically expect them to hold up to scrutiny.

 

[KayserNissan]

As a car salesman why don't you recommend the 39 month lease...0 down...0 drive off. Sign and drive deals? There needs to be more marketing and cars on the road.

The warranty is only good for 36 months so it would be risky during the last 3 months.

Risky? It'd be a prorated warranty as I understand it. How expensive could a 3 month warranty really cost?

The warranty isn't a factor, cost on extending it the 3mo/3k is $219, plus the odds of that 3 months having the warranty issue is minimal.

I don't condone 39 month leases because all it does is stretch the payment, like if you were purchasing and stretching to 66 or 75 months. It isn't horrible if the person is chasing a payment, but I just don't agree with it. Next, and the biggest reason IMO you don't need to do a 36 month lease is because the pricing is nearly identical for a 24 month lease (if you excuse the CA or possible other state rebates that require the longer term).

If anyone could post the numbers (Final Negotiated Price/Payment Before Tax/Money Factor/Residual/Due at signing) I would greatly appreciate it so i could take it to my local dealers and try to replicate

The LEAF lease I ran on Saturday:

Working of a LEAF SL with an MSRP of $38,370:
$164/mo for 24 mo/24k plus tax w/$3500 down. Which turns into $176 taking into account the 5.5% sales tax in WI.

So the guy is supposed to get back to me today, but if he writes me a check for $3500 he will have 23 payments of $176, and that is with us making a profit of around $1000-1200.

If you dip down to an SV the payment and/or cash down will decrease.

 

[gergg]

The LEAF lease I ran on Saturday:

Working of a LEAF SL with an MSRP of $38,370:
$164/mo for 24 mo/24k plus tax w/$3500 down. Which turns into $176 taking into account the 5.5% sales tax in WI.

So the guy is supposed to get back to me today, but if he writes me a check for $3500 he will have 23 payments of $176, and that is with us making a profit of around $1000-1200.

If you dip down to an SV the payment and/or cash down will decrease.

What would the monthly payment be with $0 down on an SV?

 

[KayserNissan]

Had the boss run it.

MSRP: $36,245
- 24mo/24k $287 per mo with zero out of pocket. That is literally everything, tax, title, fees. (For giggles, had him run a 36/36 and it was $298/mo further demonstrating it is a terrible choice unless you need to for state credits )

If we subtract tax cause that is subjective to the state you are at $272/mo.

So sign and drive, zero out of pocket, 23 payments of $272 (plus tax) Profit is again roughly ~$1000.

For those who are interested, with each $1000 you put down you decrease the payment by roughly $43/mo. A lower MSRP, or lower profit will drag that down as well by roughly the ratio

 

[xtremeflyer]

Had the boss run it.

MSRP: $36,245
- 24mo/24k $287 per mo with zero out of pocket. That is literally everything, tax, title, fees. (For giggles, had him run a 36/36 and it was $298/mo further demonstrating it is a terrible choice unless you need to for state credits )

If we subtract tax cause that is subjective to the state you are at $272/mo.

So sign and drive, zero out of pocket, 23 payments of $272 (plus tax) Profit is again roughly ~$1000.

For those who are interested, with each $1000 you put down you decrease the payment by roughly $43/mo. A lower MSRP, or lower profit will drag that down as well by roughly the ratio

What is the money factor and residual for these calculations?

 

[EatsShootsandLeafs]

Had the boss run it.

MSRP: $36,245
- 24mo/24k $287 per mo with zero out of pocket. That is literally everything, tax, title, fees. (For giggles, had him run a 36/36 and it was $298/mo further demonstrating it is a terrible choice unless you need to for state credits )

If we subtract tax cause that is subjective to the state you are at $272/mo.

So sign and drive, zero out of pocket, 23 payments of $272 (plus tax) Profit is again roughly ~$1000.

For those who are interested, with each $1000 you put down you decrease the payment by roughly $43/mo. A lower MSRP, or lower profit will drag that down as well by roughly the ratio

What is the money factor and residual for these calculations?

I'll let him answer his case, but in mine the purchase on my Leaf was about $26,500 with a $21,000 residual, which is almost 79%. Money factor I can't recall but it was within .5% interest rate of 1% (not sure if .5 or 1.5).

For what it's worth I think these prices are so good that it MIGHT make sense to get a 36 month--even if it's a few dollars more--than a 24, because one needs ask oneself, what happens in 24 months? A very good chance you won't get a car like this again for a lease payment of the same. If I could have extended my 24 month lease to 36 at the same price I would have.

 

[KayserNissan]

Residual is 57%, money factor is .00003

The residual value is actually calculated off of the original MSRP not the adjusted rebate/sale price.

So on the above mentioned $36,245 would have a residual buyout of $20,659.65


Going to over complicate things so ignore this if you don't care This is how you breakdown how much a monthly lease payment ends up

- MSRP: $36,245 minus the residual value $20,659.65 = $15,585.35.
- Then you subtract the rebates in this case $8,050, and the discount $1,346 giving us a total of $6,189.35
- Need to add in any dealer/state fees/costs, so in our case $99 for the registration, $75 for new plates, and $149 Doc Fee
- Those numbers all added up $6,512.35 (6189.35+99+75+149) is then divided by the term, 24 months in this case.
- Before the money factor/interest rate is taken into account we have a payment of 271.35
- The money factor in this case is negligible to the point where if figured backwards is less than 0.5% interest and I get the above mentioned pretax $272 monthly figure.
- Tax is the tricky thing because it varies by state. Wisconsin it is 5.5% (or whatever the tax rate is for the county) of the monthly payment, so 272*1.055 = $287/mo.

I think IL calculates the tax on the total price of the vehicle and then divides it up in the payments. Honestly not really sure how each state does theirs, but it will be different from state to state.

Hope that helps!

 

[topaz420]

Residual is 57%, money factor is .00003

Thank you so much for your honesty, Joe! I wish we had dealers like you in Nevada.

 

[NYLEAF]

On the topic of sales tax and leasing, New York has a strange little quirk. Here in NY, we are required to pay the full sales tax on the lease payments up-front at signing. You cannot legally "roll the tax" into the payments. We do not, however, pay sales tax on the MSRP or negotiated price of the vehicle, simply on the monthly payments -- so, $$$/month * # of months * tax%.

Dealers can kinda/sorta let you include tax in your monthly payments, but what they are actually doing is separately loaning you the money for the sales tax, potentially with a different interest rate, and then including the cost of that loan into the monthly payment. Doing it this way makes it cost a lot more money than it should, which is why virtually everyone pays sales tax up front here.

Just a little factoid for anyone leasing in NY....

 

[topaz420]

DAMN!

Local Las Vegas dealer matched Joe's deal, ($248 (inc tax)x 24months +$0 down!) but I have to be physically present to sign some of the docs and I'm overseas till the 10th so i'm out of luck for now

Fingers crossed that the lease programs get renewed (or improved?) after these current ones end on 10/01/12

Damn!

Thanks again to Joe from KayserNissan, a stand-up dude without whom I never would have had the tools to put this deal together

 

[MrIanB]

DAMN!

Local Las Vegas dealer matched Joe's deal, ($248 (inc tax)x 24months +$0 down!) but I have to be physically present to sign some of the docs and I'm overseas till the 10th so i'm out of luck for now

Fingers crossed that the lease programs get renewed (or improved?) after these current ones end on 10/01/12

Damn!

Thanks again to Joe from KayserNissan, a stand-up dude without whom I never would have had the tools to put this deal together

I believe you can wire a small deposit to lock the offer going on now and do the rest of the paper work when you get back. I have heard of this done from other dealers. Have a safe trip back and if in the military thanks for your service.

Ian B

 

[ljwobker]

So I closed this afternoon on my new Silver SV Leaf (insert whatever emoticon means "excited" here...)

My lease details:

24 months, Silver LEAF SV
MSRP: 36620
Discount: 3050
Rebates: 8050 (7500 plus maybe more from the Nissan Mothership?)
Adjusted Cap cost: 25715
Money factor: .00003 (effectively zero)
15,000mi / year
Base payment: 212.62
add 3% NC use tax: $219/month
Cash at closing: $750 (includes first month's payment)

So the total amount paid will be ($750 + 23*219) or $5787... if you converted this to a "zero down and 23 payments" lease it would be $251 month. Looking at it another way, I'm paying 5787/30000 or 19.3 cents per mile to drive my leaf... which is almost what I will save in gasoline vs driving my existing Acura TL.

The sales guy bounced back and forth between me and "the sales manager" a few times and I had to push pretty hard to get this through... so while I think it might have been possible to get a little better deal, I think I did relatively well here. Maybe someone will pop that bubble, but this seems like a "good enough" deal in my book.

 

[LeafInColorado]

We just closed on our leaf last night, an SL, very similar deal overall.

One issue I had, I owed tax up front (approx 8%) on the rebate portion - 8% of 8050, about $640. We had to pay this up front. It was part of the upfront costs including a $595 lease acquisition fee.

Is anyone else facing this, the sales tax on the federal rebate?

 

[ljwobker]

Yes, I had to pay the same thing (or at least I was told I had to pay the same thing...) I've not leased a car before so had no ammunition to argue (and at 3% NC rates it wasn't the end of the world).

I had mine rolled into the initial payment...

 

[RichUT]

Hey Kayser, would you mind running the no cash option on a 24 month lease for an SL with a sticker of $39,069? It would be greatly appreciated.

 

[philipscoggins]

I've got my local dealer checking to see if he can match this...

Philip

 

[topaz420]

Hey Kayser, would you mind running the no cash option on a 24 month lease for an SL with a sticker of $39,069? It would be greatly appreciated.

Hi Rich,

Joe's already given us all the info we need to run the numbers ourselves, but to do that we just need the amount of the discount off the MSRP of 39,069 - No one is paying sticker these days!

 

[RichUT]

Yeah, so I guess that is the rub. What's a realistic discount to ask for? I'm really out of the loop on what level of discounting is typical on a LEAF.

This dealership has one SL on their lot that they are advertising at $28,474 ($10,595 off). They have another SL listed at $36,994 ($2,075 off).

The rest of the 19 SL's on the lot are listed at full MSRP. Granted, this is all online stuff, so any Joe off the street could get these prices.

I don't really understand the dynamics of the 2 models that have a discount vs. the many others that don't. I'm guessing something is up with the one that is $10K off, but it seems like the one that's $2K off is more in line with what I should be able to get on any LEAF on the lot, no?

 

[topaz420]

This dealership has one SL on their lot that they are advertising at $28,474 ($10,595 off). They have another SL listed at $36,994 ($2,075 off).

Right now (until 10/01/12 - hopefully will get renewed!) Nissan is offering $8,050 "lease cash" for leases - 7,500 from the federal tax credit that they're taking and passing on to you, plus 550 more

So the "10,595 off" above certainly includes that 8050.

I ran an estimate for you based on the second SL you mentioned above (i don't know your local reg fees etc), and it's 305+tax or about 330/month for 24 months with $0 down.

Leaseguide has a calculator which i used to do this using the numbers Joe provided

 

[LeafInColorado]

After studying the market, I think it's pretty clear where things are at.

The lease deals are pretty stellar. 2 year lease, makes a TON of sense - you just don't worry about things like battery degradation, technology change, etc. 36 month lease feels like a long time for this car, in my opinion.

So the lease deals are out there, fine. But the big question is the discount you can negotiate.

Always factor out the 7500 federal rebate. Don't let that get confused with total off MSRP. That's just built in.

The real question that completely determines the "deal" you get is how much off of MSRP, not counting the federal 7500. (And keep in mind, Nissan is now apparently supplmenting that so it's really $8050 total).

And I think the deals that are out there are $2k - $3k off of MSRP. If you're in that range, you're doing great. Your lease payments with 0 down and such will be in the $250 range for an SL.

After watching this for a LONG time, my wife and I closed a deal on one last night. The deal finally got good enough.

KeyserNissan's numbers are all great. If you can meet those, you're doing fine. I think this last week in Sep you're seeing some pretty motivated salespeople, so it's a legitimately good time in my opinion. The deals may get a bit better for 2012s as it gets closer to the end of the year, but these lease deals we're all getting now, IMO, are just great deals.

Thanks everyone for all of your help!