Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

dvlax40 said:

@ Volusiano

you might confusing the battery warranty and the leasing programs. From what i read the program will give you a full 12 bar battery when you first sign up, and when you loose three bars, it will replace it again with another 12 bar.

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You misread it. You got the 1st part right but the 2nd part wrong. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

BBrockman said:

The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

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There's more in his post. The 1st replacement is a 12 bar pack, but the ones afterwards could have anywhere from 9-12 bars.

I'd assume that they'd probably give you something w/at least 10 or 11 bars so Nissan doesn't keep having to spend on labor costs. I'd imagine they'd want to give hot climate folks or ones w/newer cars 12 bar packs. I'd imagine in milder climates or those w/older cars, they might just give 10 or 11 bar packs. Giving anyone 9 bar packs is probably a bad idea.

cwerdna said:

Giving anyone 9 bar packs is probably a bad idea.

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i was actually reference an article elsewhere that said 12 on the replacements, but your statement here is what led me to believe it. i cant believe nissan would want to spend all that labor money on 9 bar packs.

cwerdna said:

BBrockman said:

The program offers LEAF owners the opportunity to replace your pack with the latest available and compatible battery technology, starting with 12 bars capacity, for about $100 per month. Once in the program, Nissan provides assurance that the battery will maintain at least 9 bars capacity for entire time the vehicle is in the program.

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There's more in his post. The 1st replacement is a 12 bar pack, but the ones afterwards could have anywhere from 9-12 bars.

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I stand corrected. I was reading the main part of the announcement only and didn't see it mentioned there. But now that you pointed it out, I did see that Brian did say that in his preface to the main part of the announcement.

nogajim said:

TonyWilliams said:

nogajim said:

... I was at 55.62 Ahr on the Battery App.

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Woo hoo! Great data, keep it coming guys, before and after the firmware update.

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Early returns are in. Capacity is now 59.75 Ahr (90% vs 83% yesterday). No sign of the 12th bar yet.

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Ahr=57.85 now and still no 12th bar. I guess I'm an official bar loser. I think the first in Georgia :!:

Add me to the list of those losing their first bar. 22K, easy driver, perfect climate (San Diego), had the car 25 months, daily driver, only charged to 100% about 30 times. Rather disappointing.

twingo said:

Add me to the list of those losing their first bar. 22K, easy driver, perfect climate (San Diego), had the car 25 months, daily driver, only charged to 100% about 30 times. Rather disappointing.

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i guess its relative, if you go only 2.5 more years and loose one more bar you'll be somewhat inline with nissans predictions.

only time will tell. hopefully the 2015 has great new battery technology that the early leafs can take advantage of

nogajim said:

Ahr=57.85 now and still no 12th bar. I guess I'm an official bar loser. I think the first in Georgia :!:

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Wow.. 57.85 seems rather high to be missing a bar! Do you think the software is settling back towards your previous 55.6? Condolences...

Lost Bar 4 this morning - June 29, 2013. 43,520 miles. Would someone add this to the wiki for me?

I do not have the P3227 re-program yet. I'm assuming that after the upgrade is complete, I will be eligible for a capacity warranty battery replacement. I can still make my commute so I'm not sure it makes more sense to do it now or to wait? The biggest factor would be if waiting meant getting a re-furb pack with less than 12 bars. (I'm assuming the first few 4 bar losers will get new packs?)

Interesting notes:
Lost bar 1 on (approximately) May 15 2012 @ 13.5 months ownership, (approximately) 23,250 miles.
Lost Bar 2 on July 3rd 2012 @ 15.25 months ownership, 25,054 miles.
Lost bar 3 on May 21, 2013 @ 25.75 months ownership, 41,792 miles.
Lost bar 4 on June 28, 2013 @ 26.75 months ownership, 43,520 miles.

My recent starting range in Eco has been 68 miles. I charge to 100% 6 days a week and I hit the LBW warning regularly.

Here are my recent data points from Turbo's most excellent Android Leaf Battery app. (I really don't understand what they mean, I am just copying them from my BattLog.txt file
Date/Time AHr
06/14/2013 19:12:56 447326
06/15/2013 10:45:58 439913
06/16/2013 08:56:17 440110
06/19/2013 18:17:40 455657
06/21/2013 07:27:30 443390
06/25/2013 17:37:39 443915
06/26/2013 07:01:07 438536
06/28/2013 17:50:58 432632
06/29/2013 05:31:08 425612

If you can still make your commute, you might want to wait until the worst of the summer heat is over with. Keep the new pack for cooler fall and winter weather.

jhm614 said:

I'm assuming that after the upgrade is complete, I will be eligible for a capacity warranty battery replacement.

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This is still an assumption, no? Has anyone actually received the letter which was supposed to formally announce the capacity warranty? Has anyone gone to a dealer with a degraded pack that meets the terms and had one replaced yet, or even determined that their dealer is aware of the warranty and will honor it? I haven't heard of anything being official yet, but I may have missed something. All I have heard of are the buybacks that have happened on the cars that had packs that degraded quickly, on a case-by-case basis.

TT

cwerdna said:

an AZ friend's occasional FB posts about his temps, I don't think we're anywhere near as bad as Phoenicians esp. since it almost always cools down at night here.

He lives near Phoenix and here are some examples:
On June 18, 2012, he posted a screenshot of 111 F temp for Phoenix from a weather app.
On July 10th, he posted a 104 F pic from his car and said at 9:40 pm, it's still over 100 F.
On Aug 5, 2011, he posted a pic of his car showing 100 F at 9:17 pm.
On July 2, 2011, he posts a pic of his car showing 117 F.

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The above Phoenician Facebook friend posted some temps yesterday.

On June 28, 2013, he posted a pic of his Prius showing it's 117 F outside at 4:07 pm (Pacific time, I believe).
On the same day, at 10:26 pm, he posted his Prius showing it's still 100 F outside at 10:15 pm, saying it was 2.5 hours after sunset. Also said it "Was still 108° in Downtown Phoenix when we left there at around 9:40pm!"

Crazy!

KJD said:

If you can still make your commute, you might want to wait until the worst of the summer heat is over with. Keep the new pack for cooler fall and winter weather.

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+1. Given that the capacity warranty is only good for 60K miles, you might as well put off replacing the pack if you can. Granted, there's the risk of getting a refurbished pack with less than full capacity, but then again, if you get a new pack now it will have degraded significantly by the time you reach 60K miles.

Plus, in the meantime, you might be able to attain the dubious distinction of having the LEAF with the fewest capacity bars!

Just lost my first capacity bar this morning. My 2011 LEAF has 35,365 miles, delivered 8/25/11, located in South San Jose (Almaden). The beginning of the heat wave yesterday in San Jose may have been the tipping point.

Had mostly charged to 80% once per day (weekdays) for the past 22 months, but started charging to 100% during the past 2 weeks. On weekdays, the car has sat in a shade in a car-park in Sunnyvale, CA. Varied between 80%/100% on the weekends, and only FC when the ambient temp is below 70F. Avoided FC in summer, and only FC once per month in the other 3 seasons for the past 22 months.

Car is mostly at 5 temp bars for the 1st 3 seasons, but edges to 6 bars in the late spring and summer. Only saw 7 bars once, and only when I FC at 74 degrees (would never do that again).

Garaged the car overnight for 3 seasons, but starting this summer, started parking the car outside, overnight, and used the portable trickle charger versus Blink to keep the battery cool, or cool it off. Kept the ICE outside of the garage overnight as well, as that car really heats up the garage (probably cooking the LEAF battery). In hindsight, I probably should have done this last summer--but who knew until last year that the battery would degrade quickly from heat?

Been reading MNL for the past 2 years, and had been paranoid about keeping the battery cool since the news of battery degradation came out a year ago. Haven't posted previously, but now I got to, given the first lost capacity bar.

Ironically, I lost the bar today, right before my appointment with the Nissan Dealer (for the 2 year annual battery report and P3227 software update). Curious to see what happens after the appointment.

Car has been great otherwise, and we never expected to use it as our primary car--but it definitely is used as our primary car. We've gone just about everywhere in the the SF Bay Area in our LEAF.

Can someone add me to the Wiki page? I'm curious to know how many other folks in the SF Bay Area have lost a capacity bar.

CayenneSJLEAFy said:

Can someone add me to the Wiki page? I'm curious to know how many other folks in the SF Bay Area have lost a capacity bar.

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Sorry to hear, you are number four or five, by my count anyway. The first documented case was Fabio. The wiki is located here. Please consider getting an ELM327 bluetooth dongle and a dedicated Android phone or tablet. That could remove some of the guesswork, and facilitate better utilization of the remaining battery capacity.

Am I allowed to add myself on that list? I'm in Tustin/Irvine, SoCal, lost a bar about 2 months ago, but din't exactly know the date?

occ said:

Am I allowed to add myself on that list? I'm in Tustin/Irvine, SoCal, lost a bar about 2 months ago, but din't exactly know the date?

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Yes, absolutely, even if some data was missing. It's still early in the adoption curve of EVs, and this type of documentation can help others in your area.

@ surfingslovak--thanks for sending me the link to the wiki. I just updated the wiki with my information. I don't have the OBD dongle yet, but a fellow LEAFer at our recent SFBayLEAFs meeting last month did plug the dongle to my car and gave me the results. 85.2% capacity was the read at the time. I'll either get the dongle or go to next month's meeting to see what has changed.

jhm614 said:

I do not have the P3227 re-program yet. I'm assuming that after the upgrade is complete, I will be eligible for a capacity warranty battery replacement.

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I thought Nissan had made it clear that if you are already down four bars then you are eligible immediately, upgrade or not. As you and others have said, the reason for waiting would be if it improved your odds of having a better battery when you reach 60K miles. That's a gamble, but I would also guess that if you switch soon you have a good chance of getting a new, or like-new battery. If you wait until next fall, however, and let's say you have say 48K miles by then, Nissan could calculate that you only need enough to go another 12K miles in mostly cool weather and give you a 10-bar, or even 9-bar battery.

Ray

Lost second bar today. It is now a race to the warranty cut off.
Just had the 24 month battery check so Nissan is well aware of the progress.

ttweed said:

jhm614 said:

I'm assuming that after the upgrade is complete, I will be eligible for a capacity warranty battery replacement.

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This is still an assumption, no? Has anyone actually received the letter which was supposed to formally announce the capacity warranty?

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Got the letter in today's mail. Will scan it a bit later, if nobody else gets theirs and the group wants to see it. I don't even have time to read it properly myself just now.