Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[leafwing]

Since I JUST lost my 12th capacity bar, does anyone else think I should try to get the P3227 update like today, and see if it restores it?

Well, I saw the 12th bar after the update. It lasted about 2 mins. only.

 

[Pipcecil]

I don't think we have buyer remorse laws, but I am in contact with the dealership owner.

They are planning on diagnosing the car, and are giving me a new car to drive while they try to determine the issue.

I think the issue is just the heat of Texas and the car itself running on highways but I will see what they say.

Hopefully there is something wrong. I am a 2 bar looser, drive majority on the freeways (SH 360 @ 60 mph, IH 20 @ 65 and US 67 @ 60/65) with light cilmate control (usually set it at auto with temp @ 84 in the summer). At 4 miles/kWh I average about 60 miles to dead. When you look at your range meter, to me, that is really the value until your car physically stops. When you hit Low Batterty Warning, you have about 4-8 miles until Very Low Battery warrning, and then maybe 2-4 until turtle, with turtle maybe one mile left. That 4 miles on the range meter is probably more at 8ish at the end.

BUT if your driving is less conservative (i.e. not breaking slowly, accelerating more swiftly, and of course, if you are driving on the tollway, higher speeds), then those number do seem somewhat accurate. Its hard with the range meter - when you pull into your home, you have problem driven on some city streets, etc. This inflates the number at the end.

To me, it really is just wrong on Nissan's part to expect your range to be "too much" on a not even 2 year old car - your mileage should work just fine. Hopefully the dealership comes back with something.

 

[vrwl]

There's a 2011 two bar loser for sale at our local Nissan dealership, but a quick check of the wiki does not show this car listed (#01439). Here's the link:

http://www.nissanofmckinney.com/used/Nissan/2011-Nissan-LEAF-ed53375a0a0a00650113fc3751926577.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

exdeath's car is back up on the Nissan of McKinney website. A couple of days ago, the link wasn't working, now it is working again. Wonder if he took the car back to them??

 

[mksE55]

There's a 2011 two bar loser for sale at our local Nissan dealership, but a quick check of the wiki does not show this car listed (#01439). Here's the link:

http://www.nissanofmckinney.com/used/Nissan/2011-Nissan-LEAF-ed53375a0a0a00650113fc3751926577.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

exdeath's car is back up on the Nissan of McKinney website. A couple of days ago, the link wasn't working, now it is working again. Wonder if he took the car back to them??

I too hope they did. it would be just another nail in the EV coffin.

 

[dhanson865]

There's a 2011 two bar loser for sale at our local Nissan dealership, but a quick check of the wiki does not show this car listed (#01439). Here's the link:

http://www.nissanofmckinney.com/used/Nissan/2011-Nissan-LEAF-ed53375a0a0a00650113fc3751926577.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

exdeath's car is back up on the Nissan of McKinney website. A couple of days ago, the link wasn't working, now it is working again. Wonder if he took the car back to them??

I too hope they did. it would be just another nail in the EV coffin.

Was it 16K the first time around? How cheap would it have to be before a 2/3 bar loser is an attractive used car now that we know you can't buy replacement batteries?

I'd like to have a used leaf but I'm not wanting to pay $100/month for a battery lease.

 

[vrwl]

Was it 16K the first time around? How cheap would it have to be before a 2/3 bar loser is an attractive used car now that we know you can't buy replacement batteries?

I'd like to have a used leaf but I'm not wanting to pay $100/month for a battery lease.

Honestly, I don't remember what the mileage said the first time I saw it. But the last 4 digits of the VIN match what I saw previously, so it's the same car. If he did turn it in, I hope they didn't screw him over on the deal.

Big edit: <smacks head> I thought you were talking about the mileage when you said 16K. LOL! Now I realize you're talking about the price. The price is the same as it was when I first saw it.

 

[GRA]

Dave, what's the speed limit where you normally drive 55? What's the free-flow of traffic speed? I suspect both are far lower than in exdeath's case. Texas has the highest speed limits (and probably the highest actual freeway/tollway speeds) in the country. Relative overtake speeds (deltaV) do matter for safety, in both reaction time and severity of accident, which is why California has minimum speed and impeding traffic laws. Besides, while you may be comfortable having people come up on you with a 25 mph or more overtake, exdeath obviously isn't (neither am I), so slowing down to 55 isn't an acceptable option for him.

he is looking for solutions and slowing down is by far the best one. and i hear the same crap about slow driving on the freeway and i can guarantee that if i was driving 55 mph on the freeway in Texas, i would not be the only one. I will be testing this theory in a few weeks. I will report back

on I-5 south of exit 101, the speed limit is 70 and a third exceed it, the rest drive between 65-70. have done 55 mph on that road dozens of times. cars dont really care and if they are that unable to recognize the difference in speed i'd rather they hit me while i am going fast enough to minimize the impact than to hit a car that is on the shoulder not moving at all

Actually, the best solution for the OP is a different car, since they're not comfortable driving 55 when everyone around them is going 80. I'm glad that you're comfortable doing so; most people aren't.

 

[mwalsh]

Even though I knew it was on the way, it's very disheartening to see that blank spot where capacity bar 12 used to be. Sigh.

Just added myself to the Wiki.

 

[GregH]

Date lost: 22 June 2013
Miles: 28310
Temperature bars: 6
LeafDD temps: 27.7, 26.8, 26.7, 25.9
S 79.9008 C 54.7891 H 79.31
192 Gids @ 80%, 385.5V

Interesting. The Health number doesn't match the Capacity number, if one assumes an original capacity of about 66 Ah. I'm still at C 61.8608 H 93.02 218 GIDs at 80%, so I have a ways to go before I reach first bar loss. Thanks for that data point.

Hmm.. 54.79Ah falls within the spread seen so far (54-55.6) for loss of bar#12 but that's still a surprisingly large spread. The health is interesting also, is this the first time it's been under 80%? Still not sure what they're using to calculate the loss of a bar.. perhaps it's the Ah capacity or health hitting a certain point for a series of days before officially being called.. But then didn't somebody say after the software upgrade they saw the 12th bar for just a few minutes??! How could the new SW so quickly deduce the capacity of the pack? hmm..
Health vs. Ah Capacity discussion here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=13247

And yes the percentage number on the current ELM SW is NOT health, but just Ah Capacity / 66.25 (unless you change the 66.25 in settings).

<edit> oops.. just saw HighDesertDriver's post from Tuesday.. C 54.9400, H 79.6

 

[z0ner]

Even though I knew it was on the way, it's very disheartening to see that blank spot where capacity bar 12 used to be. Sigh.

Just added myself to the Wiki.

Just think of the bright side, Michael. It's charging faster :lol:

At least that's what I tell myself.

 

[leafwing]

The car just lost the 11th bar this morning @ 23,863 miles. I was expecting it to happen any time.
Do I need to call Nissan to update my case or get a new case number? Does it make a difference?

 

[RickS]

Update from me, I met up with Trevor and had my Ah reading read, it was indicating around 74% of capacity available.

Leafwing, your loss was at a mileage very close to when I lost my 2nd bar. I'd say call and complain about it, but I wouldn't expect much from customer service at this point unless you can get the case escalated some how.

 

[ecoobsessive]

I lost bar 11 on June 13th at approximately 23K miles. Someone can update the wiki if people are still interested in that. I have not called Nissan support. At this rate I think I'll qualify for the warranty in 2 years or less. Then I guess I'll rent a 12 bar battery after that. The hard part will be when I'm at that 9th bar (and 8th bar) and really stretching it to make my commute - coming home at LBW or VLBW on a daily basis.

I never leave the car at 100% charged. But I had taken the car to the dealer in early June for the 2 year battery check on a Saturday (received 5 "stars" for battery care). They did the work on Monday. Carwings check showed the car plugged in and at 100% from Sat. afternoon through Monday Temps were in the mid 90s.

 

[dvlax40]

I lost bar 11 on June 13th at approximately 23K miles. Someone can update the wiki if people are still interested in that. I have not called Nissan support. At this rate I think I'll qualify for the warranty in 2 years or less. Then I guess I'll rent a 12 bar battery after that. The hard part will be when I'm at that 9th bar (and 8th bar) and really stretching it to make my commute - coming home at LBW or VLBW on a daily basis.

I never leave the car at 100% charged. But I had taken the car to the dealer in early June for the 2 year battery check on a Saturday (received 5 "stars" for battery care). They did the work on Monday. Carwings check showed the car plugged in and at 100% from Sat. afternoon through Monday Temps were in the mid 90s.

with their new rental program you can switch over to the 12 bar battery at any time, i dont believe you need to wait till 4 bars are gone

 

[Volusiano]

with their new rental program you can switch over to the 12 bar battery at any time, i dont believe you need to wait till 4 bars are gone

That's not true at all.

All you're getting with the new rental program is a 9-bar warranty. Not any different than the current 9-bar warranty they have. You can join the rental program anytime, but there's no point to enter the rental program until after your current 9-bar warranty expires. And you won't get a replacement battery until you've lost more than 3 bars. And even then, there's no guarantee that they will give you a 12-bar battery. They may simply give you another 9-bar battery and that would still fulfill their warranty.

 

[dhanson865]

with their new rental program you can switch over to the 12 bar battery at any time, i dont believe you need to wait till 4 bars are gone

That's not true at all.

All you're getting with the new rental program is a 9-bar warranty. Not any different than the current 9-bar warranty they have. You can join the rental program anytime, but there's no point to enter the rental program until after your current 9-bar warranty expires. And you won't get a replacement battery until you've lost more than 3 bars. And even then, there's no guarantee that they will give you a 12-bar battery. They may simply give you another 9-bar battery and that would still fulfill their warranty.

not true doubly so, I suggest you look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331&start=80#p303828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- The pack installed when you opt in to this program may be new, or may be remanned- but it will be a full-capacity, 12-bar pack.

 

[Volusiano]

with their new rental program you can switch over to the 12 bar battery at any time, i dont believe you need to wait till 4 bars are gone

That's not true at all.

All you're getting with the new rental program is a 9-bar warranty. Not any different than the current 9-bar warranty they have. You can join the rental program anytime, but there's no point to enter the rental program until after your current 9-bar warranty expires. And you won't get a replacement battery until you've lost more than 3 bars. And even then, there's no guarantee that they will give you a 12-bar battery. They may simply give you another 9-bar battery and that would still fulfill their warranty.

not true doubly so, I suggest you look at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331&start=80#p303828" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

- The pack installed when you opt in to this program may be new, or may be remanned- but it will be a full-capacity, 12-bar pack.

That quote was from Chelsea, lead of the LEAF advisory group, not from Nissan officially, so I wouldn't consider it to be gospel until otherwise substantiated by Nissan. So far, Nissan never said anything to that effect. Below is the snippet from Brian Brockman officially. As you can see, it only mentioned the 9-bar warranty and there was no mention of 12-bar initial replacement.

All LEAF batteries installed under this program will enjoy coverage similar to the terms of standard battery coverage under the Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty and be assured to maintain at least 9 bars capacity, or approximately 70 percent and protection from defects in materials or workmanship for the time they own their LEAF and remain in the battery program. If necessary, Nissan will replace the battery with a new or remanufactured battery to restore capacity at or above a minimum of 9 bars, much like the existing expanded battery capacity warranty.

Although Brian Brockman did thank Chelsea several posts later on in the thread for jumping in an provide some additional details and clarification, I still wouldn't assume that it implies that he confirmed the 12-bar initial replacement until I see an explicit statement from Nissan on this themselves.

 

[davewill]

- The pack installed when you opt in to this program may be new, or may be remanned- but it will be a full-capacity, 12-bar pack.

That quote was from Chelsea, lead of the LEAF advisory group, not from Nissan officially, so I wouldn't consider it to be gospel until otherwise substantiated by Nissan. So far, Nissan never said anything to that effect. Below is the snippet from Brian Brockman officially. As you can see, it only mentioned the 9-bar warranty and there was no mention of 12-bar initial replacement.

All LEAF batteries installed under this program will enjoy coverage similar to the terms of standard battery coverage under the Nissan New Electric Vehicle Limited Warranty and be assured to maintain at least 9 bars capacity, or approximately 70 percent and protection from defects in materials or workmanship for the time they own their LEAF and remain in the battery program. If necessary, Nissan will replace the battery with a new or remanufactured battery to restore capacity at or above a minimum of 9 bars, much like the existing expanded battery capacity warranty.

Although Brian Brockman did thank Chelsea several posts later on in the thread for jumping in an provide some additional details and clarification, I still wouldn't assume that it implies that he confirmed the 12-bar initial replacement until I see an explicit statement from Nissan on this themselves.

It seemed pretty clear to me, and we sure have a lot more reason to believe Chelsea (inside info) than we do you.

 

[vrwl]

There's a 2011 two bar loser for sale at our local Nissan dealership, but a quick check of the wiki does not show this car listed (#01439). Here's the link:

http://www.nissanofmckinney.com/used/Nissan/2011-Nissan-LEAF-ed53375a0a0a00650113fc3751926577.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

exdeath's car is back up on the Nissan of McKinney website. A couple of days ago, the link wasn't working, now it is working again. Wonder if he took the car back to them??

Nissan of McKinney has just RAISED the price on this 2 bar loser car by $1000. It was $16999 when I first noticed it, exdeath bought it, I guess he brought it back to them after realizing it had diminished capacity, and now the price online is $17995. What a laugh!

 

[dvlax40]

@ Volusiano


you might confusing the battery warranty and the leasing programs. From what i read the program will give you a full 12 bar battery when you first sign up, and when you loose three bars, it will replace it again with another 12 bar. but i guess your right that we cant bet on this until nissan starts sending us letter in the mail!

its actually a good move by nissan, but its one they should have done from the beginning, especially with us phoenix drivers. 119 with a low of 93 is going to be great tomorrow