Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[mwalsh]

It may well be that every LEAF in AZ (and in TX, with 7 reports so far) will have this problem and soon. I don't yet see any indication why that might not happen, just as there is yet no indication that it will.

Don't discount other areas. We still don't know what the temperature break point is before this kind of loss starts to occur. In my 'hood the temperature is supposed to be a more normal (for the season) 93 degrees for the next couple of days. But that's positively balmy compared to some the extremes in summer temperatures we've seen historically. Could an extended heat-wave be a trigger for initial bar loss in other areas too? Only time will tell.

[opossum]

Just got this from Scott. Do all of us really need to make yet another phone call? Maybe someone can just share with this person the newly expanded wiki tables? I have been feeding information to Vicki to expand those tables today.

"Nissan customer care just called. She said that if anyone is having battery capacity loss problems they should call her. (name redacted by request) 877-664-2738."

I just received a callback from her. No earth-shattering information. Nissan is looking into the issue. She is still urging everyone who does not have a case number to call her directly. She said she cannot take the information from the MNL wiki page, as it is not a Nissan site.

[charge]

[quote="mwalsh We still don't know what the temperature break point is before this kind of loss starts to occur. [/quote]


This is the $64k question for those outside the extreme temp areas. Under what conditions does heat exacerbate battery degradation??? Is it 24 hours worth of 100 degree weather and car parked on asphalt during the day? Until we know for sure, I'm playing it safe. If the temps are over 95, I'm taking the ice.

IMHO, we need to know what it takes to fix the battery. In the past Nissan said, no big deal, just swap out a few cells, just hundereds of bucks to do so. If that's no longer true, we need to know why and how much it will REALLY cost to fix/replace the battery.

http://green.autoblog.com/2011/09/30/ni ... ent-costs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[aqn]

Just got this from Scott. Do all of us really need to make yet another phone call? Maybe someone can just share with this person the newly expanded wiki tables? I have been feeding information to Vicki to expand those tables today.

"Nissan customer care just called. She said that if anyone is having battery capacity loss problems they should call her. [REDACTED AT Nissan Social Support Team's REQUEST, VIA drees."

I just received a callback from her. No earth-shattering information. Nissan is looking into the issue. She is still urging everyone who does not have a case number to call her directly. She said she cannot take the information from the MNL wiki page, as it is not a Nissan site.

One contact is better than no contact. (I've added this contact info to the wiki.) But, the cynic in me wonders if this contact carries any weight, or when we tell Nissan "...but every one of us have contacted you...", Nissan would say "You did? Whom did you contact? We have no record. Etc." Is this the person who would assign a case number?

[vrwl]

The Japanese culture is different to ours and whereas GM responded to the Volt Fire Fiasco quickly, offering to buy back cars etc, the Japanese culture is such that they don't want to lose face by admitting fault. They will internally accept the problem and later remedy without so much as an admission. When I worked at ComputerVision many moons ago, the Japanese division downplayed they had a call center for customers to call with an issue, simply having a call center would indicate a faulty product. When they called me for technical support they never claimed our software was faulty, but asked us to help them correct their error in being unable to complete a task. To tell someone else they had goofed up would be rude and they simply wouldn't do it, but they did reach out for help nonetheless.

I can see how their culture might account for the delay in response and the need to fully research the issue before making any attempt at solving the problem. Let's hope that's what's happening right now. Only time will tell.

[OrientExpress]

Nissan now has a point person to collect information from owners who feel that they are having an issue with the battery capacity of their car.

While that person may or many not be the person you actually talk to, do please call 877-664-2738 to register your concerns.

I recommend that if you believe that you have an issue with your car that you call. Keep in mind that the call agent's job will be to collect the owner information and pass it on. They will not have any solutions or timelines to offer, so be nice and civil when you speak with them.

[vrwl]

Don't discount other areas. We still don't know what the temperature break point is before this kind of loss starts to occur. In my 'hood the temperature is supposed to be a more normal (for the season) 93 degrees for the next couple of days. But that's positively balmy compared to some the extremes in summer temperatures we've seen historically. Could an extended heat-wave be a trigger for initial bar loss in other areas too? Only time will tell.

Yes, I'm concerned that with all the attention on Phoenix, other places like Florida or Texas or Oklahoma or inland CA might get lost in the shuffle over at Nissan. Of particular concern to me personally is what happens with those people who did not purchase them as "New" from a Nissan dealership and instead, purchased them as "Pre-Owned". My car only had 89 miles on it and sat for 9 months in a Hertz Car Rental parking lot unused. They auctioned it off and now I own it via Toyota. So my car is the same age as yours, but essentially a year behind the curve with regards to being used. Will the people who have purchased Pre-Owned Leafs be covered in whatever decision Nissan makes about these cars?

[WetEV]

They aren't flaky. The guy in the Seattle area (where they are experiencing historically lower temps, while the rest of the USA bakes) has over 40,000 miles has a VERY strong battery. It's also never seen real heat.

There's nothing wrong with the battery in moderate temps, and moderate use.

Yea, my tomatoes don't like this weather. Two days over 80F so far in July. Cool and rainy today, we need some warmer and dry weather soon, or I'll get at best some green tomatoes. Sigh. I'm sure you will all offer sympathy. Ok, maybe not...

The Leafs may "migrate" to cooler climates. Which might make the local parking lot identification problem harder. Rather than the current "oh, there is the Leaf, that's my car" or even "there is a red Leaf, that one is mine" but "darn, the whole parking lot is Leafed, and 37 of them are red, just where did I park again"?

Which makes the case for battery TMS all the more pressing. Elon Musk (Tesla, SpaceX, PayPal) thought Nissan was crazy to offer the car without TMS. ... I think Nissan still has a chance to save the day, by offering either a new battery or a different car, to affected owners. Honestly, I doubt they will, however.

A higher temperature battery retrofit and/or TMS retrofit and/or a buyback all might make sense, both to limit damage to Nissan from negative fallout and limit the damage to affected owners. Also things like white painted parking with L1 charging for thermal management at shopping/work and fans or even AC in home garages. But expecting a logical solution isn't always logical.

[vrwl]

... or even AC in home garages.

The amount it would cost me to AC my garage would equal another car payment each month. However if Nissan wanted to pay for the additional AC costs to cool my garage each month, that would be another thought altogether.

[azdre]

Nissan now has a point person to collect information from owners who feel that they are having an issue with the battery capacity of their car.


I recommend that if you believe that you have an issue with your car that you call and speak with her. Keep in mind that her job will be to collect the owner information and pass it on. She will not have any solutions or timelines to offer, so be nice and civil when you speak with her.

I've said it before, but it's worth saying again. Every individual I've dealt with has been well-intentioned, has listened to me, heard me, and have done everything in their power to help. The people behind the logo, on the front lines have been very good and just so far unable to help. I'm actually quite impressed with Nissan's hiring at the levels I've been able to speak with. They are in a tough spot and I don't envy them.