The 62kWh Battery Topic

cwerdna said:

jlsoaz said:

Revisiting the PIA effort for a moment, I don't see in this list any Leafs listed past a build year of 2018, or above 40 kWh, and a certain amount of slowdown before then, so maybe in some way the effort has been reduced for this model? Or perhaps they have a separate data set for the Leaf Plus?

https://survey.pluginamerica.org/leaf/vehicles.php?order=built

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I totally forgot about or didn't even know about that. :shock: So... I don't think I ever reported my (24 kWh Leaf) numbers.

I suspect the majority of MNL users don't know about it along with most of the users on the Leaf FB groups I'm on.

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PIA survey has been mentioned here several times and I have submitted a few different LEAFs but I had also completely forgotten about it.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Good point, and you are right that the data is just anecdotal so far. The data from Geotabs and other places is still too early in the life of these batteries to make any conclusions. I think it will be 2-3 more years until we can make any determination about even the 2018 40 batteries in terms of life and degradation. The BMS no longer moves linear like the earlier cars, as it appears to be managing buffer more actively. I believe this is why we can't find any 2018 batteries which have lost a bar yet.

My anecdotal is that my Wife drives an SV+ (~9K miles). We have had the car for about 13 months. The car GOM in the summer sits with a GOM of 250, and an average of about 4.7 miles/kWh. She uses AC heavily, but rarely does more than 15 miles on the highway at a stretch.

My (and my kids car) is an S+ (also 2019 1K miles). Car is a month old, after sitting on the lot for 9+ months. I/we use the AC very lightly, and average 5.2-5.33 between highway and local driving in summer (so local driving is upper 5's, Freeway is mid 4s) and the GOM still sits slightly above 300 miles with full charge with current driving style. We will see what winter brings. The battery is only 4 months newer on this car than the other. ...but even with the lot aged battery, I know this is car is still in a bit of the goldilocks period with the car range/gom.

Let's see how the next few years go with the car. Our 2013 lost 1 bar after over 5 years charging to 100% almost every night after the first year (thinking it didn't matter when they dropped the 80% feature), so hoping we will do the same or better this time with keeping the cars generally between 30-70%.

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40 kwh data point; a FB'er recently posted their 2 year stats and still in the mid 92's SOH so holding steady and pretty much right in line with most of us. If you look at my sig, I was in the low 92's @ 21 months when I upgraded and that 40 kwh pack was abused TREMENDOUSLY first due to unexpected Rapidgate and being hundreds of miles from home then after the Rapidgate update in a vain attempt to slow the charge rate to below 20 KW. That was my first ever 12 TB experience.

DougWantsALeaf said:

I am not critiquing the effort. It is great they are gathering data.

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Yes, sorry, I didn't take it that you were. I sort of thought I was throwing the links around but without giving proper credit, so I just wanted to mention as a bookmark that it takes some work.

I tend to agree with this Forbes article that 50kW stations in higher frequency is the key. Their price point is also coming down rapidly.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEBzWfcRxB4t3ZtcHW-dOShsqFQgEKg0IACoGCAowrqkBMKBFMMGBAg?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

DougWantsALeaf said:

I tend to agree with this Forbes article that 50kW stations in higher frequency is the key. Their price point is also coming down rapidly.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEBzWfcRxB4t3ZtcHW-dOShsqFQgEKg0IACoGCAowrqkBMKBFMMGBAg?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

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The article does have its points but its also a "one or the other" argument which in itself is Bull****. The cost is miniscule compared to "any" other massive public infrastructure project in the history of Mankind.

Having EXTENSIVE experience with L2, DC 50 and DC "100" they all serve a role and he got it right in that regard but saying EA's 150 is wrong is WRONG. EA's location of "most" of its stations is wrong but not locating with a host increases their cost exponentially so its a trade off.

The other failure is the ideology that installing cheaper stations means more stations. Sorry but I see NO evidence at all indicating this is true. The #1 obstacle is property rights followed by utility cost. What REALLY needs to happen is reducing or removing demand costs for the stations NATIONWIDE.

As I was riding along with my son yesterday, I got bored and read through the owners manual. A few notes.

The manual references keeping a steady power level improves efficiency.

What they don't say anywhere is that keeping state of charge very high is bad for the battery. They do say keeping car at a very state of charge is bad for battery life. From the anecdotal evidence on this board, in spite of general knowledge of lithium Ion batteries, it doesn't seem to be too bad on the leaf. (That said I try not to do it).

I do like now that the car will turn itself on to recharge the 12v battery. I don't remember that in the earlier version of the car. I accidentally walked into the garage yesterday when it was charging it up.

I do like now that the car will turn itself on to recharge the 12v battery. I don't remember that in the earlier version of the car. I accidentally walked into the garage yesterday when it was charging it up.

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Alas, they always did that, if not well, and they still don't do it well. I'm about to add a hardwired battery maintainer lead to my 2018 this weekend, as it's been keeping the battery at less than 12.4 volts.

The 2013 did it too? I thought the 2013 would only charge the battery when the car was turned on.

DougWantsALeaf said:

As I was riding along with my son yesterday, I got bored and read through the owners manual. A few notes.

The manual references keeping a steady power level improves efficiency.

What they don't say anywhere is that keeping state of charge very high is bad for the battery. They do say keeping car at a very state of charge is bad for battery life. From the anecdotal evidence on this board, in spite of general knowledge of lithium Ion batteries, it doesn't seem to be too bad on the leaf. (That said I try not to do it).

I do like now that the car will turn itself on to recharge the 12v battery. I don't remember that in the earlier version of the car. I accidentally walked into the garage yesterday when it was charging it up.

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I notice that my 2019 has significantly more draw from the 12V battery immediately after shutdown than the previous cars. I don't think there is a lot more long-term residual draw, but there is high draw for a little while until modules sleep and I have caught my 2019 charging its 12V battery (blinking blue light) more often than I ever caught the previous cars. It just sat at my office for 5 days and SOC did not change so it did not take significant energy from the traction battery.

The 2011 and 2012 models would charge for 5 minutes every 5 days when parked without being plugged in. Anything that interfered with modules going to sleep would prevent charging cycle(s) and result in a completely dead 12V battery after only a few days. The car could sit for months without issue as long as it was properly shut down when parked (and not plugged in). A problem with this fixed time method was that the OEM battery would increase in internal resistance as it aged so it would not draw enough current to recharge in 5 minutes--a quality AGM deep cycle battery with low internal resistance worked much better with these timed charge cycles.

The 2015 would monitor 12V battery voltage and initiate charging as needed to keep charge level adequate. Again, a quality AGM battery with low internal resistance would recharge faster during the as-needed charging cycles. Although I have no direct experience with 2013, I believe they function the same as the 2015. The 2019 appears to function the same way, but it initiates charging cycles more frequently than the 2015 so I will be replacing its OEM battery with an AGM deep cycle at the first sign of weakness.

DougWantsALeaf said:

The 2013 did it too? I thought the 2013 would only charge the battery when the car was turned on.

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It will charge it every 5 days or so. ;(

DougWantsALeaf said:

The 2013 did it too? I thought the 2013 would only charge the battery when the car was turned on.

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Every one did it and hopefully you are noticing it now because they doing it much more often which still seems to be not enough.

DougWantsALeaf said:

What they don't say anywhere is that keeping state of charge very high is bad for the battery. They do say keeping car at a very state of charge is bad for battery life.

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Did you mean they say keeping the car at a very low state of charge is bad for battery life? Does the manual mention any specific SOC values that are high or low?

Learn something new every day.

goldbrick said:

DougWantsALeaf said:

What they don't say anywhere is that keeping state of charge very high is bad for the battery. They do say keeping car at a very state of charge is bad for battery life.

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Did you mean they say keeping the car at a very low state of charge is bad for battery life? Does the manual mention any specific SOC values that are high or low?

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Here is an excerpt from the 2019 manual--no specific SOC (except near zero):
Avoid leaving your vehicle for more than 14 days where the Li-ion battery available charge gauge reaches a zero or near zero (state of charge).

No mention of leaving battery at 100% for weeks is bad though.

Here is the difference in ride heights.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/437741293059829?view=permalink&id=1587072684793345&_rdr

About 1/2".

If you upgrade the Leaf to a faster AC charger (for a couple K euros from muxsan ), would the j1772-tesla adapter allow for faster destination charging?

DougWantsALeaf said:

If you upgrade the Leaf to a faster AC charger (for a couple K euros from muxsan ), would the j1772-tesla adapter allow for faster destination charging?

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I believe it would. I "think" the adapter will go up to 40 amps? (9.6 kw) . Maybe prices have changed but I didn't see anything that even came close to being worth the money especially with DC stations coming online in bunches

I did not even know you could upgrade the AC charger on a current LEAF. If you could I believe the above post is right that at least one of the adapters is faster, there are also faster home chargers available for example openevse if your circuit can handle it.

So yesterday I drove over 800 miles on the interstate and mountains and desert in hot summer weather. The first fast charge was fine though that was like 6am, the second fast charge seemed OK but I didn't watch or time it very well but I've had some luck with them before. The third fast charger maxed at 19.5kw the batter temp marker hit the first red line, the fourth fast charge the batter went into the read and 55C als 19.5kw max, the 6th was very short.

A guy I know with a Bolt and someone he knows with a KIA do large hundreds of mile trips with less problems.

With the longer EV range and spreading fast charging I think even the plus needs battery cooling, I wish Nissan would do it in a future model. No bumpers or such fall off a LEAF but that lack of battery cooling is still a problem.

I guess you would call this rapid gate?