The 62kWh Battery Topic

[GerryAZ]

I have no qualms about using the full battery capacity on a routine basis. I never used the 80% charge option on the 2011 because I used most of the range every day. I might use it if the 2019 offered that setting, but I use the charge timers to match my off-peak power rate and will not change them to try to modulate charge levels. I bought the car to drive so I will keep using its full capabilities. As noted before, I just make sure that SOC is at appropriate level when the car will be parked for extended time. I also plan to do a full discharge test every 3 months so I can track useable battery capacity.

 

[jlsoaz]

I have no qualms about using the full battery capacity on a routine basis. I never used the 80% charge option on the 2011 because I used most of the range every day. I might use it if the 2019 offered that setting, but I use the charge timers to match my off-peak power rate and will not change them to try to modulate charge levels. I bought the car to drive so I will keep using its full capabilities. As noted before, I just make sure that SOC is at appropriate level when the car will be parked for extended time. I also plan to do a full discharge test every 3 months so I can track useable battery capacity.

My question was similar to Loren's and I guess you've answered, it, but I'll follow up by saying this. I think you've said something about your degradation with such charging practices being equal or less bad than that of others in similar climate at the time. (2011, 2015). Ok, but degradation at the time for many of us was really bad, so this leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Regardless of the charging practices debate, my main point of interest will be to see what your experience can teach some of the rest of us sitting on the sidelines waiting to see how the latest longer-range Leafs do in hot climates.

 

[GerryAZ]

jlsoaz,

You had a bad experience with your 2012 (same battery type as 2011), but the 2015 that I had was much better than either the original or replacement battery in my 2011. The much larger battery in the 2019 seems to have less degradation than the 2015 so far, but it is much too soon to make any judgements. I bought each car to drive so they all were (are) charged fully almost every charge cycle and discharged to relatively low state of charge. I will periodically post updated data and will know more about the 62 kWh battery after a couple years of use.

 

[Learjet]

Just got my Leaf Spy up and running...My 2019 SL Plus has a build date of 2/19 and I bought it 3/20...it sat on the same dealers lot for 13 months and had less than 20 miles on it. When I went to look at it...no appointment ...it was charged to 93%....so who knows how and when it was charged for 13 months.

SOH showing 96.37%
HX 95.55%
8 mV difference in the battery pack.

Some curious items in Leaf Spy:

1. The odometer reading in Leaf Spy shows ~300 miles less that acutal....note I have not driven car yet with Leaf Spy running...may correct ?

2. not sure if these codes mean anything...link is clickable to enlarge

 

[LeftieBiker]

Update your version of LeafSpy Pro. That should fix the odometer issue.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Just got my Leaf Spy up and running...My 2019 SL Plus has a build date of 2/19 and I bought it in 3/20...it sat on the same dealers lot for 13 months and had less than 20 miles on it. When I went to look at it...no appointment ...it was charged to 93%....so who knows how and when it was charged for 13 months.

SOH showing 96.37%
HX 95.55%
8 mV difference in the battery pack.

Some curious items in Leaf Spy:

1. The odometer reading in Leaf Spy shows ~300 miles less that acutal....note I have not driven car yet with Leaf Spy running...may correct ?

2. not sure if these codes mean anything...link is clickable to enlarge

Your codes are fine. The only important info on your screenshot is various version numbers you see towards the bottom. I also had the odometer issue on either my E Plus or 40 kwh? Not sure which and it could have been both. But it clears up after a few restarts. If you just installed LSP, updates are not likely available but I either put the app on auto updates or check for updates AT LEAST once a week. I would recommend this for other apps on your phone paying special attention to any systems apps, etc. My phone updates "something" nearly every day and I don't have a lot of the common apps most people use today.

Take out the EV centric apps and I only have a handful left.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

What a great test of battery reduction from sitting at high SoH for a year with no use. Not bad, as your car is older than my May build and has a bit higher SoH. It looks like the battery isn't that much worse for months at a high SoC.

Enjoy the car.

 

[lorenfb]

What a great test of battery reduction from sitting at high SoH for a year with no use. Not bad, as your car is older than my May build and has a bit higher SoH. It looks like the battery isn't that much worse for months at a high SoC.

Enjoy the car.

Anecdotal

 

[lorenfb]

Just got my Leaf Spy up and running...My 2019 SL Plus has a build date of 2/19 and I bought it 3/20...it sat on the same dealers lot for 13 months and had less than 20 miles on it. When I went to look at it...no appointment ...it was charged to 93%....so who knows how and when it was charged for 13 months.

SOH showing 96.37%

Right, when was it charged to over 80%?

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

What a great test of battery reduction from sitting at high SoH for a year with no use. Not bad, as your car is older than my May build and has a bit higher SoH. It looks like the battery isn't that much worse for months at a high SoC.

Enjoy the car.

We don't know what the battery did for all that time so its really not much of a test of anything.

 

[jlsoaz]

jlsoaz,
You had a bad experience with your 2012 (same battery type as 2011), but the 2015 that I had was much better than either the original or replacement battery in my 2011. The much larger battery in the 2019 seems to have less degradation than the 2015 so far, but it is much too soon to make any judgements. I bought each car to drive so they all were (are) charged fully almost every charge cycle and discharged to relatively low state of charge. I will periodically post updated data and will know more about the 62 kWh battery after a couple years of use.

Thanks, will look forward to your data.

The Leaf I had was reliable and had some other good aspects, but it will take a lot for me to consider a Nissan EV again. The degradation I experienced was an issue, but the additional issues such as range and depreciation also need to be addressed. Bare minimum for me to consider another Nissan BEV would include:

- 200+ EPA miles range when new. (They have satisfied this, as in this thread).
- Probably at least 175-200 miles real-world range at about 4-6 years if/when bought used and expectations of degradation more or less in the same ballpark as the competition. (We'll see about that).
- Transparency about costs and kWh of out-of-warranty replacement batteries for used EVs. (They have in some ways in the past been ok on this, but I don't know where they are now).
- Would prefer something with entry-level luxury, such as Infiniti and/or in a different segment such as a pickup.

 

[alozzy]

A bit off topic, but as a second hand owner of a 2013 LEAF, my perspective is quite different. I would definitely buy another second hand LEAF - very likely a 2018 SV with a 40 kWh pack once the price is right.

I don't ever expect to own another car that effectively pays me for owning it (vs the Hyundai Santa Fe I used to drive). Admittedly, my timing was very lucky 3 years ago when I got my 2013 SV for $8k USD. From day 1, the gas savings alone would have more than covered the monthly loan cost (I didn't finance the purchase, but I did use my line of credit). In fact, I estimate that after only a little more than 3 years, the gas savings have entirely paid for the LEAF. So, at this point, the monthly cost of ownership is dirt cheap.

Even given the reduced range, it still puts a smile on my face every day I drive it

 

[user 28563]

7/7/19 (first reading)
SOH: 98.45
Ahr: 173.67
QC: 18
L1/L2: 65
Odo: 2,616

12/9/19 (previous posting)
SOH: 94.37
Ahr: 166.47
QC: 39
L1/L2: 320
Odo: 14,823

4/17/20 (current)
SOH: 92.71
Ahr: 163.54
QC: 50
L1/L2: 481
Odo: 20,588

Since we started tracking down 5.74% in 285 days, 17,972 miles living in southern Ohio. I'd like to say I think degradation has slowed as time has passed but it seems pretty steady, slowing some but not much. We'll see how this second summer goes... One year mark will be Memorial Day weekend so hoping to stay below 6% loss till then.

 

[user 24513]

Since we started tracking down 5.74% in 285 days, 17,972 miles living in southern Ohio. I'd like to say I think degradation has slowed as time has passed but it seems pretty steady, slowing some but not much. We'll see how this second summer goes... One year mark will be Memorial Day weekend so hoping to stay below 6% loss till then.

How are you charging? let us all know, and thanks.....

 

[user 28563]

Since we started tracking down 5.74% in 285 days, 17,972 miles living in southern Ohio. I'd like to say I think degradation has slowed as time has passed but it seems pretty steady, slowing some but not much. We'll see how this second summer goes... One year mark will be Memorial Day weekend so hoping to stay below 6% loss till then.

How are you charging? let us all know, and thanks.....

Well I tend to put about 80 miles on my car every day that I drive into work (which isn't much as of late since my business is fully WFH). I try to keep my car between 20%-80%, on workdays I charge in the early morning using L2 (on timer) to be around 80% when I leave and plug the car in when I get home (somewhere between 35% - 55% charge remaining based on season) so it can charge again in the early morning for me to drive to work the following day. The only times I go outside this range is when we make a trip to CLE to see the in-laws in which case we discharge the battery closer to 20% (10% in the winter) and then we QC to 80% so we can drive the rest of the way and get around most of the weekend on L1 trickle charge only.

The only time we really pay any attention to battery temp is in the summer when going to QC on longer trips but we only take 4-5 trips in the summer where we need to QC so we are generally able to keep the battery well below 100F most days/trips (with those longer ones being exceptions).

 

[jlsoaz]

A bit off topic, but as a second hand owner of a 2013 LEAF, my perspective is quite different. I would definitely buy another second hand LEAF - very likely a 2018 SV with a 40 kWh pack once the price is right.

I don't ever expect to own another car that effectively pays me for owning it (vs the Hyundai Santa Fe I used to drive). Admittedly, my timing was very lucky 3 years ago when I got my 2013 SV for $8k USD. From day 1, the gas savings alone would have more than covered the monthly loan cost (I didn't finance the purchase, but I did use my line of credit). In fact, I estimate that after only a little more than 3 years, the gas savings have entirely paid for the LEAF. So, at this point, the monthly cost of ownership is dirt cheap.

Even given the reduced range, it still puts a smile on my face every day I drive it

Hi Alozzy:

I'm really glad to read your point of view and experience with the Leaf. I think a decent chunk of the differences between your position and mine are down to:

- use-case. I need 200+ miles of range. The closest DC charge station is about 55 miles away, in the next county. In my county there are none. There is one J1772 public station L2, and that's because I helped pay for it to be installed (in part so I could get my Gen1 Leaf home, when I had it.). I did miss at least one international flight due in part to my old Leaf not having ready access to fast charging. I also lost a lot of time sitting around at L2 stations in the larger city down the road.
- climate at our locations. The climate in much of the US desert Southwest, where I live and where GerryAZ lives, was extremely hard on those Gen1 Leaf batteries and on vehicle range. From what I've read, it's a different story at many other locations. If I had made the mistake of buying a new Leaf at that time rather than leasing, I would have been out a huge amount of money.

As it was, the lease I took out was arguably the worst financial decision I have ever made. Not only was I out about $18k in the up-front payments, along with a small bit of repair/maintenance by the time I got done, but I also was out the increased costs of insurance over that time period (about another $3k total) plus the "gasoline cost of a short-range electric vehicle" (I had to retain a gasoline burner for some purposes during that time period.... about half of my 32 thousand miles over 39 months were using gasoline vehicles).

I don't sit around hating on Nissan for that poor decision, and there certainly were some positive aspects of the whole thing. I'm grateful that Nissan stepped up and leased me a safe reliable BEV where most other automakers would not. However, the experience did leave me at the point where I will wait for Nissan to check off a decent list of features before I will consider another Nissan BEV. I do like the size of this 62 kWh battery that is the subject of the thread. If the evidence comes in that it holds up ok in the heat, that will get me a step closer to considering one. From my conversations with other Arizona BEV drivers, at least one reports what GerryAZ has reported, which is that the later Leaf batteries held up better. Some would consider another Leaf where others will not soon be getting one.

 

[alozzy]

@jlsoaz I can absolutely appreciate your perspective, thanks for sharing.

If I lived in a hotter climate, I wouldn't consider a new LEAF either. I'm just lucky to live in an ideal climate for BEVs, so I'm really looking forward to owning a 40 kWh or 62 kWh LEAF in a few years from now.

As you noted, I can make do with the range of my 11 bar 2013 but I sure wouldn't mind double or triple the range, especially in winter.

 

[tziegler]

Here's an update from my post in January when I got my 2019 Leaf SV Plus. I live in Florida and it has been warmer than usual.
1/29/20 - SOH 98.97
6/15/20 - SOH 96.25, 6 QC, 22 L1/L2, m/kwh=4.5, ODO=1457 (Leaf Spy lite shows 905). I have used the credit from EVGO for 3 quick charges. After the last quick charge, the Leaf Spy temp was 102. My driving is an almost even mix of city and highway. i never charge the car above 85% and usually plug it i when it gets in the 20s.

So far, I am really enjoying the extra range. I am leasing the car, so if the battery is degraded after 3 years, I probably won't purchase it.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Did you find the lease prices competitive? We purchased in the end because the Lease prices were not very good.

From another thread, but we just picked up a new left over 2019 Leaf S Plus for 30.5K (23K after Federal rebate). The Lease on the car even with down payment was going to be over $400, which felt crazy. In 3 years that would have been 2/3rds the price of the car.

 

[LeftieBiker]

After receiving a mailed offer from Nissan that appeared to imply that I could terminate my lease early with no penalties and also get help leasing a new Nissan, I've been getting prices. The problem is that while there are no "penalties" as such, I'd still be expected to pay off all of the remaining payments, then give NMAC back the car I'd just "rented" for almost another year. No thanks. Including the $4k to pay off my current lease, leasing a new 2020 SV Plus, or a 2019 SL Plus, would cost me between $5k down and $450 a month, and...a lot more than that, like $550 a month with a couple of thousand down. Thus I'm going to wait until their Black Friday clearance, at which point I will owe 5 fewer payments.