Who is driving 2013 Leaf? EPA range is 75 miles!!!

[bobsfreeleaf]

I am reformatting my driving experience into a table, for ease of use. I have also written a "simple" formula to determine implied MAXIMUM driving range (to zero charge). It is basically miles driven divided by state of charge change between the beginning and end of the drive (charge expended if you will). You should knock off 10 to 20 miles of range for many reasons noted on this board. If you are in a high heat or freezing cold region, do not use this table. This information is for San Diego with a brand new battery, relatively flat drive about 2/3 freeway, 1/3 street. I will note when I am not in ECO mode. I drive the fwy at 65 most days. Hope this will be useful in your buying decisions.

I have added average speed, since it occured to me that freeway miles consist of fast and slow periods (morning and evening commute). When I say I am going 65, this means "whenever possible" This is much different than a constant freeway cruise on the weekend. My average speed on the last drive seems to indicate I am spending less time going 65 than I am going 25-35 mph. Also, time spent waiting to get on the freeway and red lights must reduce the miles per hour.

Drive # Tempera; Drive sty/Frwy mph; Bars start; Bars end; SOC start; SOC end; Mi. drvn; Imp Rng; Avg speed note
No. 1. 50’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; 90% beg; 35% end; 43 miles;;; 78 miles ;;;;;;; Part rain/heat
No. 2. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 7 bars at end; 100% beg; 54% end; 43 miles;;; 93 miles ;;;;;;;
No. 3. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 12 bars; 5 bars at end; 100% beg; 40% end; 54 miles;;; 90 miles ;;;;;;;
No. 4. 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 72; 12 bars; 4 bars at end; 100% beg; 29% end; 61 miles;;; 86 miles ;;;;;;; Drove the fast lane
No. 5. 60’s/70’s; Eco/Freewy 65; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; 91% beg; 33% end; 51 miles;;; 88 miles;;;; 31 mph;

 

[DaveEV]

I was at the dealer the other day and a 2012 leaf drove in. So, I took a picture of the nose. Notice the massive changes in the aerodynamics of the 2013 vs 2012.

Believe it or not, the changes are to internal airflow inside the grill so the changes are not readily apparent from the outside.

BTW - with your range results it would be very helpful if you reset your mi/kWh gauge at the beginning of each trip and reported the value with the rest of your data.

 

[KJD]

BTW - with your range results it would be very helpful if you reset your mi/kWh gauge at the beginning of each trip and reported the value with the rest of your data.

+1

 

[TonyWilliams]

BTW - with your range results it would be very helpful if you reset your mi/kWh gauge at the beginning of each trip and reported the value with the rest of your data.

+1

+2 and eliminate GOM and "average" speeds. If I drove one LEAF at 10mph for half a trip and 90mph for the second half of the trip, I would average 50mph. The GOM range on the next trip would be abysmal.

By the same token, I can do the reverse, 90mph and then 10mph, still get 45mph average and get a really optimistic GOM range guess.

 

[cwerdna]

BTW - with your range results it would be very helpful if you reset your mi/kWh gauge at the beginning of each trip and reported the value with the rest of your data.

+1

+2 and eliminate GOM and "average" speeds. If I drove one LEAF at 10mph for half a trip and 90mph for the second half of the trip, I would average 50mph. The GOM range on the next trip would be abysmal.

By the same token, I can do the reverse, 90mph and then 10mph, still get 45mph average and get a really optimistic GOM range guess.

+3 on drees' request. I agree about eliminating GOM value. I do think average speed should stay (I kinda liked it on my former Nissans). It gives us an idea of how fast/slow the trip was.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... If I drove one LEAF at 10mph for half a trip and 90mph for the second half of the trip, I would average 50mph. The GOM range on the next trip would be abysmal.

By the same token, I can do the reverse, 90mph and then 10mph, still get 45mph average and get a really optimistic GOM range guess.

...I do think average speed should stay (I kinda liked it on my former Nissans). It gives us an idea of how fast/slow the trip was.

That's specifically why I posted those examples. It really doesn't tell you much.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

also might want to indicate freeway %. the 61 miles at 72 mph is one thing but if 1/3rd of that is at street speeds, that is significant. now its 41 miles at 72 mph and depending on street conditions, you can really boost or kill your range with that 20 miles.

are the trips you list essentially the same destination with random side trips?

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

also might want to indicate freeway %. the 61 miles at 72 mph is one thing but if 1/3rd of that is at street speeds, that is significant. now its 41 miles at 72 mph and depending on street conditions, you can really boost or kill your range with that 20 miles.

are the trips you list essentially the same destination with random side trips?

Yes, M-F it's a pretty standard commute. I'm guessing the car likes the first third of my trip on side streets in the 25 to 35 range. Then it's off to the freeway. Most days I jump right on with the fast pass, so I'm not grinding stop and go at slow speeds for too long. Coming home on the fwy it can be a little stop and go to get on, then up to full speed, then 45ish again at the end.

I'm a little clumsy resetting the M/KW, but I believe I am at 4.3 right now. When I have reset it in the past, I have not seen it move around much 4.1, 4.2, etc. That's why I started doing my own math. To correlate to my implied range, would I just multiply the 4.3 times 21???? Seems there is another variable at play?
I think the average speed is good for one thing, and that would be to compare me to me, as it might differentiate a free flowing drive, vs. a stoppy kind of drive (that takes longer). However, I'm not sure if the net,net of a stop and go drive is a negative (I mean slow speeds are good, but stopping is bad). Those who drive the LA fwys may wish to weigh in.
If I am not too late on Monday I will try to truncate the first leg; then start over for the freeway leg.
Take care

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

also might want to indicate freeway %. the 61 miles at 72 mph is one thing but if 1/3rd of that is at street speeds, that is significant. now its 41 miles at 72 mph and depending on street conditions, you can really boost or kill your range with that 20 miles.

are the trips you list essentially the same destination with random side trips?

Yes, M-F it's a pretty standard commute. I'm guessing the car likes the first third of my trip on side streets in the 25 to 35 range. Then it's off to the freeway. Most days I jump right on with the fast pass, so I'm not grinding stop and go at slow speeds for too long. Coming home on the fwy it can be a little stop and go to get on, then up to full speed, then 45ish again at the end.

I'm a little clumsy resetting the M/KW, but I believe I am at 4.3 right now. When I have reset it in the past, I have not seen it move around much 4.1, 4.2, etc. That's why I started doing my own math. To correlate to my implied range, would I just multiply the 4.3 times 21???? Seems there is another variable at play?
I think the average speed is good for one thing, and that would be to compare me to me, as it might differentiate a free flowing drive, vs. a stoppy kind of drive (that takes longer). However, I'm not sure if the net,net of a stop and go drive is a negative (I mean slow speeds are good, but stopping is bad). Those who drive the LA fwys may wish to weigh in.
If I am not too late on Monday I will try to truncate the first leg; then start over for the freeway leg.
Take care

ok, so you end with about 20 miles of street speeds at 45 mph? that will inflate the DTE which is probably why you are projecting range into the 90's. this makes the miles /kwh even more critical because they give a much better picture of the charge used which will give us a better idea of charge remaining.

i log my mileage daily and found it easiest to reset it first thing in the morning before taking off. This allows me to record mileage (i reset trip A daily, Trip B weekly or for "special projects") and reset miles per Kwh on dash daily and miles/kwh on MFD (which you dont have ??) monthly.

I think you will find this process valuable especially when you have the need for side trips. I drove EVs for 3½ years before the LEAF so had a mileage chart of common detours in my head. if you know your range of performance, its easy to calculate your real range instead of the using the DTE which only calculates your current range.

and yes, you can multiply your miles per kwh * 21 (i use 20 or whatever so i have a cushion)

I think the average speed is good for one thing, and that would be to compare me to me, as it might differentiate a free flowing drive, vs. a stoppy kind of drive (that takes longer).

problem with average speed is it records ALL your time including parked with car on, sitting at traffic lights, etc. if it only ran the clock while you were moving, it would be valuable but that is not the way it works so it really is meaningless for all applications except an uninterrupted drive which as you know, is very rare

 

[LEAFfan]

Dave, Bob has a VERY accurate DTE now. It's no longer a GOM. It doesn't fluctuate at all anymore. It's great to use for estimating now. And it no longer shows 100 or greater if you're m/kW h is 4.5. For instance, on an 80% charge I had 6.0m/kW h, but after charging it only showed 80 miles. On the other car it would have shown over 100.

 

[ht2]

So either there is an international conspiracy to overstate the 2103 range improvement, Nissan has added unknown mods to the USA 2013 MY to reduce efficiency, or may be, just maybe...

The San Diego Range test was just too poorly designed, and executed, to show much of anything about what the improvement in range from the 2011-12 to 2013 MY USA LEAF actually is?

I wonder why there in no EV EPA range for city like a ICE car?
2013 range improvements are for mostly city driving.
We need some one from NY or Chicago to test the 2013 Leaf with only city driving.

 

[cwerdna]

For bobsfreeleaf trips, do you think he should include the elapsed time reading? If one ends up in stop and go traffic, there's still the fixed overhead of the car being on and the heat or AC's, if it's on. In slow trips or where there's lots of stopping, that overhead can end up consuming a significant % of juice vs. driving somewhat faster/having few stops.

I really miss the elapsed time/count up "timer" that both my former Nissan's had. My Prius doesn't have it.

 

[planet4ever]

For bobsfreeleaf trips, do you think he should include the elapsed time reading? If one ends up in stop and go traffic, there's still the fixed overhead of the car being on and the heat or AC's, if it's on. In slow trips or where there's lots of stopping, that overhead can end up consuming a significant % of juice vs. driving somewhat faster/having few stops.

Isn't that just (miles traveled)/(average speed)?

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

For bobsfreeleaf trips, do you think he should include the elapsed time reading? If one ends up in stop and go traffic, there's still the fixed overhead of the car being on and the heat or AC's, if it's on. In slow trips or where there's lots of stopping, that overhead can end up consuming a significant % of juice vs. driving somewhat faster/having few stops.

Isn't that just (miles traveled)/(average speed)?

Whoops. You're right. We don't need elapsed time as long as he indicates both miles traveled and average speed.

 

[bobsfreeleaf]

I am reformatting my driving experience into a table, for ease of use. I have also written a "simple" formula to determine implied MAXIMUM driving range (to zero charge). It is basically miles driven divided by state of charge change between the beginning and end of the drive (charge expended if you will). You should knock off 10 to 20 miles of range for many reasons noted on this board. If you are in a high heat or freezing cold region, do not use this table. This information is for San Diego with a brand new battery, relatively flat drive about 2/3 freeway, 1/3 street. I will note when I am not in ECO mode. I drive the fwy at 65 most days. This drive is indicated by "Comm." My drive around town running errands is indicated by "Errand". Hope this will be useful in your buying decisions.

Drive #;;;;;;; Tempera; Drive sty/Frwy mph; Bars start; Bars end; SOC start; SOC end;;;; Mi. drvn; Imp Rng; Avg speed M/KWH ;;;note
Comm. No. 1.; 50’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65;;; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; ;;90% beg; 35% end;;;; 43 miles;;; 78 miles ;;;;;;; ;;;;;;; ;;;Part rain/heat
Comm. No. 2.; 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65;;; 12 bars; 7 bars at end; 100% beg; 54% end;;;; 43 miles;;; 93 miles ;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;
Comm. No. 3.; 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 65;;; 12 bars; 5 bars at end; 100% beg; 40% end;;;; 54 miles;;; 90 miles ;;;;;;; ;;;;;;;
Comm. No. 4.; 60’s/60’s; Eco/Freewy 72;;; 12 bars; 4 bars at end; 100% beg; 29% end;;;; 61 miles;;; 86 miles ;;;;;;; ;;;;;;; ;;;Drove the fast lane
Comm. No. 5.; 60’s/70’s; Eco/Freewy 65;;; 11 bars; 4 bars at end; ;;91% beg; 33% end;;;; 51 miles;;; 88 miles 31 mph; 4.3

xxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxxxxx xxxxxxxx xxxxxxx xxxxxx
Errand No 1.;; 70’s/80’s; Eco/Air/no Freewy 11 bars; 7 bars at end; 95% beg; 62% end;;;; 25 miles;;; 74 miles 21 mph; 4.4; Hot day / used air
[/quote]

 

[scottf200]

Drive #;;;;;;;	Tempera;	Drive sty/Frwy mph;	Bars start;	Bars end;	SOC start;	SOC end;;;;	Mi. drvn;	Imp Rng;	Avg speed	M/KWH	;;;note
Comm. No. 1.;	50’s/60’s;	Eco/Freewy 65;;;	11 bars;	4 bars at end;	;;90% beg;	35% end;;;;	43 miles;;;	78 miles	;;;;;;;	;;;;;;;	;;;Part rain/heat
Comm. No. 2.;	60’s/60’s;	Eco/Freewy 65;;;	12 bars;	7 bars at end;	100% beg;	54% end;;;;	43 miles;;;	93 miles	;;;;;;;	;;;;;;;	
Comm. No. 3.;	60’s/60’s;	Eco/Freewy 65;;;	12 bars;	5 bars at end;	100% beg;	40% end;;;;	54 miles;;;	90 miles	;;;;;;;	;;;;;;;	
Comm. No. 4.;	60’s/60’s;	Eco/Freewy 72;;;	12 bars;	4 bars at end;	100% beg;	29% end;;;;	61 miles;;;	 86 miles	;;;;;;;	;;;;;;;	;;;Drove the fast lane
Comm. No. 5.;	60’s/70’s;	Eco/Freewy 65;;;	11 bars;	4 bars at end;	;;91% beg;	33% end;;;;	51 miles;;;	 88 miles	31 mph;	4.3	
											
xxxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxxxxx	xxxxxxxx	xxxxxxx	xxxxxx	
Errand No 1.;;	70’s/80’s;	Eco/Air/no Freewy	11 bars;	7 bars at end;	95% beg;	62% end;;;;	25 miles;;;	 74 miles	21 mph;	4.4;	Hot day / used air

Maybe reformat using the {code} option and removing the semis. It uses a mono-space font.

 

[LEAFfan]

It's ok if you don't believe it, but I've driven close to 200 miles and my BCM/SGII matches it perfectly. I don't really need my battery gauge to know how many miles/% now. I'm really surprised with the accuracy of the DTE. When I had 6.0m/kW h, unlike the other car (when new) it would show well over 100 miles. Now, this one doesn't even show 100 miles at 6.0. It's not that hard to see how much more accurate it is.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

if its 6 miles per Kwh and you have 21 Kwh to burn why does it not show 126?

 

[surfingslovak]

Perhaps LEAFfan is charging to 80%? That would seem to work, numerically at least: 17 x 6 = 102

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Perhaps LEAFfan is charging to 80%? That would seem to work, numerically at least: 17 x 6 = 102

plausible. i think 80% has been his norm