jlv
Well-known member
Where do you see that it was "pulled"? The recall is being addressed by an OTA update.DougWantsALeaf said:Full self driving was just pulled. I guess rolling stops aren't cool any more.
Where do you see that it was "pulled"? The recall is being addressed by an OTA update.DougWantsALeaf said:Full self driving was just pulled. I guess rolling stops aren't cool any more.
Part 573 Safety Recall Report 22V-037 said:Description of Remedy Program : Tesla will disable the “rolling stop” functionality on affected vehicles,
starting with firmware release 2021.44.30.15. Firmware release
2021.44.30.15 is expected to begin deployment OTA to affected vehicles in
early February 2022. The disablement will carry forward in firmware
release 2021.44.30.15 and later releases. No further action is necessary
from owners who install firmware release 2021.44.30.15 or a later release
on their vehicles. Tesla does not plan to include a statement in the Part
577 owner notification about pre-notice reimbursement to owners
because there is no paid repair relating to this recall’s underlying
condition and owners will receive the remedy free of charge through
firmware release 2021.44.30.15 or a later release.
danrjones said:Maybe, someday, Elon will be right, but I think he is several generations away from people not wanting to own a car.
And If he's wrong, FSD is worth money, but a lot less... It means a 25k vehicle *IS* important for tesla, unlike Elon's latest comments. Consumers want to buy one, from Tesla, or someone else. I don't think he gets that.
25K car... yes he/she who gets this will win the market which currently remains untapped although LEAF comes pretty close after the incentives/rebates etc.
That's not correct. The article just says "the function" (rolling stop) will be disabled via an OTA to be released this month.DougWantsALeaf said:My understanding of the article was that "full self driving" was being turned off from all users until the issue is fixed (over ota). Normal autopilot would still work I assume.
"Full self-driving" has been capable of rolling through stop signs since the release of the first version in October 2020. Tesla decided to disable the function following meetings this month with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, which regulates motor vehicles.
Tesla will disable the function as soon as this month in an updated version of "full self-driving" software that's released over the internet
It's going to depend on where you live. If you live in a high density urban environment, it might make perfect sense to use a robotaxi. If you live in the rural Midwest or most of the west, you aren't going to be satisfied with waiting for your ride to show up. Urban sprawl works against the concept as well. It will also depend on just how cheap a robotaxi is. Even at a $1/mi, the cost adds up quickly, If the cost is down to $.50/mi, then you get into tossup territory. At $.25/mi. you could probably get a lot of takers. Buying and operating a new car might cost $.60-$.70/mi but the convenience factor weighs heavily. A used car would be cheaper and even the IRS allowance is .585/mi. so my guesstimates probably aren't too far off the mark. A robotaxi with a high utilization,rate, low enough build cost and low insurance costs due to automated operation might make it to $.25-$.30/mi operating cost. Tesla has it's own captive insurance for a reason. In any case, it's going to be an urban phenonium,danrjones said:So here is a question... Elon (and maybe Tesla) have this picture of the future where fleets of FSD robot taxi's are roaming around... where tesla basically won't "sell" cars anymore, and none of us will buy cars; we will be booking rides, or maybe have a subscription for rides.
Who here believes in that? I personally think Elon underestimates how much American's love cars, specifically, love owning cars.
While i do think FSD - eventually - will be successful, and hence robot taxi's will be a real thing, I don't believe he understands Americans.
My generation might use a robot taxi now and then, in leu of any other taxi or ride share, but I don't see us giving up the ownership aspect.
Elon would argue that we will, because it will be so much cheaper. I'm sure it will be cheaper, but that still may be a flawed argument.
Most people have passion for their cars. They WANT to own a car, or truck. Even if it costs more. The American dream isn't owning a house with a white picket fence and an empty garage. I could ride a bicycle and it would be even cheaper, but I don't want to. I *want* a car and a truck.
I even have asked my son if he cares about owning his own vehicle - he is 13 - and no surprise, he absolutely wants to own his own car / truck.
Maybe, someday, Elon will be right, but I think he is several generations away from people not wanting to own a car.
And If he's wrong, FSD is worth money, but a lot less... It means a 25k vehicle *IS* important for tesla, unlike Elon's latest comments. Consumers want to buy one, from Tesla, or someone else. I don't think he gets that.
DougWantsALeaf said:My understanding of the article was that "full self driving" was being turned off from all users until the issue is fixed (over ota).
Have you regressed to dog whistling ? Not happy with only straw men and question begging ?LeftieBiker said:taking opinions from all Tesla fans
The pertinent question is "When does FSD become better than 95% of all drivers?" It will probably eventually be better than that but that is what the insurance companies are waiting for. For miles while engaged, FSD is already twice as safe as the average driver. That currently includes a driver at the wheel who has been hand-picked by Tesla but it is only a matter of time before driver intervention is unnecessary. FSD doesn't need to be perfect, Just better than most people. Once that happens and insurance companies start giving discounts for cars with FSD capability because it lowers their costs then FSD will quickly become a standard option or even standard equipment.LeftieBiker said:I'd say that at least 40% of them are "significantly damaged."
The argument here now seems to be, taking opinions from all Tesla fans, that self driving is a vast improvement over human driving, and thus safer, and that it is 'only human' and should be cut some slack.
It will be the insurance companies paying. That's why the payoff for FSD will require it to be better than 95% of the drivers out there. Keep in mind that the worst 10% cause most of the accidents. Eliminating them reaps windfall profits for insurance companies. If there's a demonstrable flaw in the software then the manufacturer will be on the hook. Lots of money for the lawyers to fight over.goldbrick said:There are still open questions in my mind:
who pays when FSD fails? -- the car owner/driver, the car company, the insurance company?
what happens when FSD breaks? -- no mechanical or electrical part lasts forever. Eventually parts will fail. How is that handled?
And my biggest concern.....I write firmware that controls mechanical parts. It's like FSD for a product (not a car). I'd guess 90% of the code and development effort go into handling the <1% of cases when something goes wrong, Sensors fail and the code must be able to handle those conditions. Any engineer knows that the final 1% of improvement takes 90% of the effort on a lot of projects. I'd say FSD will certainly fit into this category.
johnlocke said:For miles while engaged, FSD is already twice as safe as the average driver.
WetEV said:The miles with FSD engaged tend to be safer than average miles for average drivers. So the comparison is at minimum misleading.
Tesla's figures are for Teslas with and without FSD engaged. I would admit that there is a a bias in that Tesla only picks drivers for FSD that meet their standards. Esurance stats indicate that there is 1 accident per 366,000 miles driven The Tesla's stat's are 1,820,000 mi driven per accident without any active safety features engaged. With active safety features engaged but without FSD, it rises to 2,700,000 miles per accident. With FSD engaged it's 4,100,000 miles per accident. It appears that Teslas either have a much better class of drivers overall or they are inherently safer to start with. While the FSD miles are biased toward freeway miles which are safer overall, the general case stat's for Teslas are not. By the numbers it would appear that you are 5-10 times safer in a Tesla than your average car.SageBrush said:WetEV said:The miles with FSD engaged tend to be safer than average miles for average drivers. So the comparison is at minimum misleading.
I agree with this. I compare FSD to overall highway driving stats. At least for now.
IIRC Tesla is able to compare similar roads in Tesla cars with and without FSD, but I'm not really convinced by the method since there must be heavy selection bias. Tesla probably has a big enough fleet of cars with and without FSD to reach statistically meaningful results that *to a degree* remove the selection bias.
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