Stoaty
Well-known member
OK, let's see how important knowing the price of a replacement battery pack is to the MNL community. Comments are welcome also.
Poll: How Important Is a Price for Replacement Battery Pack?
- Thread starter Stoaty
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Yay! I'm first. You didn't vote on your own poll Stoaty?
Stoaty
Well-known member
I did vote (first), but noticed an error in my poll such that one of the choices was "to others". When I edited the poll my vote was lost and you swooped in at just the right moment and beat me.mwalsh said:
evnow
Well-known member
Lot of times I don't vote first in polls I create - so that my vote remains anonymous ;-)mwalsh said:
TimLee
Well-known member
Think I was third.
I'll repeat what I said on the other thread first:
As a May 2011 buyer of the LEAF, at this point the price does two main things. Tells me how bad I messed up by buying instead of leasing the LEAF. And tells me how bad I messed up by not selling the LEAF early summer last year like some people did (including one to uninformed Carmax) and switching to a lease of a 2012 LEAF.
Most people changed their opinion and recommendation on the LEAF to lease only the minute the LEAF community recognized that battery capacity was falling faster than most had anticipated. Precipitously fast for those in very hot climates.
With the falling values of used LEAFs most buyers are locked in at this point.
Some buyers like TaylorSFGuy with nearly 80,000 miles on the vehicle do need the price, but even he primarily needed the price a year ago.
But the people that leased clearly need the battery price to know whether to buyout the LEAF at the end of the lease.
Unless the battery price is very low, say <$4000 total cost with Nissan keeping the used LEAF battery, I think most will consider the LEAF to be a lease only vehicle. Very few will buy out their lease. And the buyers will be stuck.
Nissan has done very little for the buyers. $1000 loyalty program is sad and pathetic. If Nissan wanted to show loyalty do what Ford did for me in 1991 with $8000 on a Merkur Scorpio (which I loved so much I bought it back from the dealer) and enjoyed the $8000 price cut on a 1991 Ford Ranger that I also enjoyed till 2009 when Cash for Clunkers did it in, with purchase of a 2009 Altima.
If LEAF is a lease only vehicle, I don't see how that business model works long term. Resale prices will continue to plummet, and ultimately Nissan will have to raise the lease price due to plummeting residual value, and demand for the vehicle will ultimately be markedly less than Nissan needs it to be. :shock:
It is pretty clear that Nissan has never wanted to answer the battery cost question. It probably is a Lose - Lose issue for them.
The thread on what battery replacement should cost indicated that most people didn't want the battery replacement to "eat up" more than 30% to 40% of their gas savings.
I feel that way too, but that is probably unrealistic.
Especially for a low mileage driver like myself the age related battery capacity loss is going to make the replacement at 7 or 8 years point very costly on cents per mile basis. It may exceed my gas savings.
But there are a lot of people in the electric conversion arena that are paying a whole lot more.
And I like almost everyone that has driven an electric vehicle falls in love with the experience and concept, so I'll probably stay with it. And put a new battery in at 8 years / 60,000 miles (or less). And probably bite the bullet that the replacement battery may cost 125% of the savings I had on gas. But I wouldn't have enjoyed driving the ICE near as much.
Nissan is like almost all businesses now, they're pricing everything based on what the market will bear.
I think that is a hard analysis to make at this early point in electric vehicle adoption.
How many of us will reluctantly buy electric vehicles, even if the Total Cost of Ownership maybe in reality has to be higher than an ICE?
I'll repeat what I said on the other thread first:
Stoaty said:
+1 on these comments.LEAFer said:
As a May 2011 buyer of the LEAF, at this point the price does two main things. Tells me how bad I messed up by buying instead of leasing the LEAF. And tells me how bad I messed up by not selling the LEAF early summer last year like some people did (including one to uninformed Carmax) and switching to a lease of a 2012 LEAF.
Most people changed their opinion and recommendation on the LEAF to lease only the minute the LEAF community recognized that battery capacity was falling faster than most had anticipated. Precipitously fast for those in very hot climates.
With the falling values of used LEAFs most buyers are locked in at this point.
Some buyers like TaylorSFGuy with nearly 80,000 miles on the vehicle do need the price, but even he primarily needed the price a year ago.
But the people that leased clearly need the battery price to know whether to buyout the LEAF at the end of the lease.
Unless the battery price is very low, say <$4000 total cost with Nissan keeping the used LEAF battery, I think most will consider the LEAF to be a lease only vehicle. Very few will buy out their lease. And the buyers will be stuck.
Nissan has done very little for the buyers. $1000 loyalty program is sad and pathetic. If Nissan wanted to show loyalty do what Ford did for me in 1991 with $8000 on a Merkur Scorpio (which I loved so much I bought it back from the dealer) and enjoyed the $8000 price cut on a 1991 Ford Ranger that I also enjoyed till 2009 when Cash for Clunkers did it in, with purchase of a 2009 Altima.
If LEAF is a lease only vehicle, I don't see how that business model works long term. Resale prices will continue to plummet, and ultimately Nissan will have to raise the lease price due to plummeting residual value, and demand for the vehicle will ultimately be markedly less than Nissan needs it to be.
:shock:It is pretty clear that Nissan has never wanted to answer the battery cost question. It probably is a Lose - Lose issue for them.
The thread on what battery replacement should cost indicated that most people didn't want the battery replacement to "eat up" more than 30% to 40% of their gas savings.
I feel that way too, but that is probably unrealistic.
Especially for a low mileage driver like myself the age related battery capacity loss is going to make the replacement at 7 or 8 years point very costly on cents per mile basis. It may exceed my gas savings.
But there are a lot of people in the electric conversion arena that are paying a whole lot more.
And I like almost everyone that has driven an electric vehicle falls in love with the experience and concept, so I'll probably stay with it. And put a new battery in at 8 years / 60,000 miles (or less). And probably bite the bullet that the replacement battery may cost 125% of the savings I had on gas. But I wouldn't have enjoyed driving the ICE near as much.
Nissan is like almost all businesses now, they're pricing everything based on what the market will bear.
I think that is a hard analysis to make at this early point in electric vehicle adoption.
How many of us will reluctantly buy electric vehicles, even if the Total Cost of Ownership maybe in reality has to be higher than an ICE?
thankyouOB
Well-known member
i am not voting on this poll.
based on the flawed content, it seems to be posted for affect and for some reason other than taking the pulse of MNL owners with regard to battery price, trade-in value and dealership pricing for installs.
it doesnt even ask whether those polled OWN the car or lease it.
based on the flawed content, it seems to be posted for affect and for some reason other than taking the pulse of MNL owners with regard to battery price, trade-in value and dealership pricing for installs.
it doesnt even ask whether those polled OWN the car or lease it.
TimLee
Well-known member
Depends on where you live and how many miles you drive per year.KJD said:
TaylorSFGuy is nearly at 80,000 miles.
Probably will make 100,000 miles, although its a bit more expensive now with $5 per Blink DCFC.
And he sacrificed a lot driving in a cold LEAF to do it.
I don't give a rat's ass. I don't buy replacement parts at the dealer and wouldn't start now. I am sure there will be a battery aftermarket with junk yard batteries and rebuilds that make the dealer price irrelevant.
The same discussion occurred early on with the Prius. Doom/gloom blah blah blah on the expensive replacement battery. Now that the earliest ones are out of warranty, there are instructions for rehabbing your battery for a few hundred dollars.
Totaled Leafs are selling for around $7K. I bet you could get a used battery for around that today.
The same discussion occurred early on with the Prius. Doom/gloom blah blah blah on the expensive replacement battery. Now that the earliest ones are out of warranty, there are instructions for rehabbing your battery for a few hundred dollars.
Totaled Leafs are selling for around $7K. I bet you could get a used battery for around that today.
TimLee
Well-known member
reeler said:
drees said:
hieuous
Well-known member
as a new owner of a used 2011 leaf i wouldn't recommend it to anybody unless the price of a new battery isn't crazy.
davewill
Well-known member
I had wanted to buy my 2011 LEAF, but ended up leasing for no concrete reason, just general concern for the future. I ended up being very grateful that I had, given the state of battery degradation. Without a solution to degradation (one that would let me plan on owning the car for 150,000 miles or more)...either through better technology or a reasonable replacement price, I will never recommend purchase of a LEAF.
That seems pretty important to me.
That seems pretty important to me.
How about an option: "I'm interested, and it may impact my future buying decisions" ?
When the time comes around for me to get a new car, the LEAF is currently the frontrunner by a country mile... but that lead could shrink depending on the battery cost and life expectancy.
=Smidge=
When the time comes around for me to get a new car, the LEAF is currently the frontrunner by a country mile... but that lead could shrink depending on the battery cost and life expectancy.
=Smidge=
Stoaty
Well-known member
Yes, my secret ulterior motive is to undermine the success of the Leaf. :twisted: I haven't done a thing for Leaf owners... with the possible exception of the Battery Aging Model (50 hours), Battery Capacity Loss section on the Wiki (over 50 hours), and the Leaf Battery App Manual (over 20 hours).thankyouOB said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
I voted "I am mildly interested in the price for battery pack replacement, but it doesn't affect me much" but it was a tough call.
I don't own or lease a Leaf yet, but I whenever I finally get one, I'll most likely be leasing, so the replacement cost won't affect me much. But part of the the reason for leasing is the unknown (probably high) battery replacement cost along w/a bunch of other reasons.
It definitely would influence what I'd say to potential Leaf owners/lessees.
I don't own or lease a Leaf yet, but I whenever I finally get one, I'll most likely be leasing, so the replacement cost won't affect me much. But part of the the reason for leasing is the unknown (probably high) battery replacement cost along w/a bunch of other reasons.
It definitely would influence what I'd say to potential Leaf owners/lessees.
I'm a Leaf owner and I don't give a rat's ass, and a happy Leaf owner at that. I do 90% or more of my driving on the Leaf and I expect it to last me at least 10 years, possibly 15, mostly because even though I commute 6 days a week to work and do all my shopping with it, I log about 7k miles/year. What most of people on this blog don't realize is that the majority of Leaf owners don't even know you exist. Look at the lousy poll numbers. Also, a large number of them are like me, using their Leafs for urban driving, which is what it was really designed to do. If you are unhappy with it, either you didn't do your homework before purchasing or naively believed that Nissan was different than other car companies, in it not for the money, but for the greater good. Come on... I have a nice orange bridge to sell you, big and beautiful, guaranteed to last at least another 10 years.
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Blog?
I noticed you don't have a location set, but from your previous posts, you look like you're in the SF Bay Area.
Seriously, the price is important. It's very important to some (e.g. TaylorSFGuy and those in hot climates). It's a question I think most EV buyers have, just as there's the question (and lots of FUD) for hybrid buyers.
Hopefully you've noticed that 500+ page thread of people who've lost capacity bars and those in hot climates who lost 3+ capacity bars within ~2 years, some much less than that (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false and thus, lost significant range and vehicle usefulness. Leaf owners in places like Phoenix will probably have a Leaf w/very little range after 10 or 15 years, even if they get a replacement pack under warranty. Perhaps if you were one of those folks, you'd be singing a different tune.
Blog?
I noticed you don't have a location set, but from your previous posts, you look like you're in the SF Bay Area.
Seriously, the price is important. It's very important to some (e.g. TaylorSFGuy and those in hot climates). It's a question I think most EV buyers have, just as there's the question (and lots of FUD) for hybrid buyers.
Hopefully you've noticed that 500+ page thread of people who've lost capacity bars and those in hot climates who lost 3+ capacity bars within ~2 years, some much less than that (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss#four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false
and thus, lost significant range and vehicle usefulness. Leaf owners in places like Phoenix will probably have a Leaf w/very little range after 10 or 15 years, even if they get a replacement pack under warranty. Perhaps if you were one of those folks, you'd be singing a different tune.DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
AP1 said:
actually statistics will probably prove you wrong. there is quite a bit of traffic here from non members who are just looking for information and have zero interest in registering or posting.
about homework; i did the homework and found that the information available was incomplete, misleading or simply not available.
i am glad your LEAF is working for you and your driving needs do suggest it will continue to do so for many years but to say
is showing whose naivety?
rmay635703
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 19, 2011
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reeler said:
Most end up costing much more than that totalled off copart, if I could get one that I knew had a good batpack and battery
for around $5k you know what I would do, that hasn't happened on one with a functional battery yet and $7k hasn't that I've seen either. (remember a $7k bid on copart is more like $9k all said and done then shipping)Cheers
Ryan
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