It makes sense, as the ICE Smart has an intrusive powerplant, and isn't comfortable enough for people to love to drive 150 miles in it. The EV version is smooth, quiet, and the range is better suited to the intended use of the car (urban and short hop driving) than that of most EVs.
Official smart fortwo electric drive thread
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redLEAF
Well-known member
Had the opportunity to finally test drive a smart electric drive yesterday at Mercedes of St. Charles (IL) and snapped a few photos:
This was after we test drove a '14 smart cabrio so was able to do a back-to-back comparison; as some may already know, we also own an '08 smart passion coupe so have been looking at changing it out -- current 'garage' situation is that its replacement can't be any longer unless we park outside which is not something I'm considering.
In any case, the smart ED drove pretty well, no shift points of course versus the ICE cabrio and MBZ's 'pedestrian warning' sounds at low speed does indeed sound a little like the Jetson's space pod. The one we drove was pretty basic, no heated and cloth seats, base radio, etc.; did include alloys and fog lights, but as an entry level EV for those with relatively short daily range needs (85 mile range at full charge) it would be fine; especially when combined with the fed and IL (10% of MSRP) incentives. If we didn't already have our LEAF we would have indeed considered it as a daily EV commuter. We gave their rep lot's of info of our experience in owning a LEAF in IL, hopefully this helps as they have not sold even a single smart ED (this one was a cancelled customer order, customer ended up getting one sooner from a Madison, WI dealer; they use it as a demo now and will be able to order one with different options, etc.). With our tough winters, we'll continue to be a single EV family until we see much better ranges w/o the high cost of a Tesla. We did also ask about the upcoming MBZ B-class electric drive ... that one may also be quite limited (it is now to the zero emissions states) in IL as well but time will tell ..
Big news for us is that we did trade-in the '08 coupe for a new '14 ICE cabrio smart; apparently smart has been working on the trans, seat comfort, etc. over the last 6 years and when you combine it with a combo sliding roof / convertible top it makes for a great little commuter with the extra range we need; this one also has cruise control which our '08 lacked so may try it out for some weekend excursions and was quite reasonable with the trade-in. The ride, cornering, shift points and seat comfort and warranty (now 4 years or 50K; was only 2 year, 24K miles and now includes free loaner cars) have improved significantly with this latest model so my wife is quite pleased with it -- we also missed having a convertible as we sold our Miata last summer so bonus points on that as well; the car is certainly no Miata but a pleasure to drive; as always it's not for everyone but we like it just fine.
One final point, as anyone who follows smart's (we know, a limited audience); dealer's are getting a limited number of '15's in anticipation of the brand new redesigned '16 so any 'special' order may be tough but for the remaining cars in the pipeline or on dealer lots that may be good news for a discount.
This was after we test drove a '14 smart cabrio so was able to do a back-to-back comparison; as some may already know, we also own an '08 smart passion coupe so have been looking at changing it out -- current 'garage' situation is that its replacement can't be any longer unless we park outside which is not something I'm considering.
In any case, the smart ED drove pretty well, no shift points of course versus the ICE cabrio and MBZ's 'pedestrian warning' sounds at low speed does indeed sound a little like the Jetson's space pod. The one we drove was pretty basic, no heated and cloth seats, base radio, etc.; did include alloys and fog lights, but as an entry level EV for those with relatively short daily range needs (85 mile range at full charge) it would be fine; especially when combined with the fed and IL (10% of MSRP) incentives. If we didn't already have our LEAF we would have indeed considered it as a daily EV commuter. We gave their rep lot's of info of our experience in owning a LEAF in IL, hopefully this helps as they have not sold even a single smart ED (this one was a cancelled customer order, customer ended up getting one sooner from a Madison, WI dealer; they use it as a demo now and will be able to order one with different options, etc.). With our tough winters, we'll continue to be a single EV family until we see much better ranges w/o the high cost of a Tesla. We did also ask about the upcoming MBZ B-class electric drive ... that one may also be quite limited (it is now to the zero emissions states) in IL as well but time will tell ..
Big news for us is that we did trade-in the '08 coupe for a new '14 ICE cabrio smart; apparently smart has been working on the trans, seat comfort, etc. over the last 6 years and when you combine it with a combo sliding roof / convertible top it makes for a great little commuter with the extra range we need; this one also has cruise control which our '08 lacked so may try it out for some weekend excursions and was quite reasonable with the trade-in. The ride, cornering, shift points and seat comfort and warranty (now 4 years or 50K; was only 2 year, 24K miles and now includes free loaner cars) have improved significantly with this latest model so my wife is quite pleased with it -- we also missed having a convertible as we sold our Miata last summer so bonus points on that as well; the car is certainly no Miata but a pleasure to drive; as always it's not for everyone but we like it just fine.
One final point, as anyone who follows smart's (we know, a limited audience); dealer's are getting a limited number of '15's in anticipation of the brand new redesigned '16 so any 'special' order may be tough but for the remaining cars in the pipeline or on dealer lots that may be good news for a discount.
How about a few more details on how the ED drove and handled?
redLEAF
Well-known member
OK -- an earlier post showed a couple of bloggers in the U.K. on that aspect but here are my own opinions; this from a perspective of a current (new & old) ICE smart and LEAF owner (other 2 cars we have are VW's; '13 Touareg and '12 Golf R) as well have driven many makes and models over the years, most recently a Lamborghini Gallardo on a track in Orlando (and no, we don't own that one!).
The car does accelerate very smoothly from a standstill, just like the LEAF, you can watch the impact of too much throttle on their own version of a GOM; the car we drove showed about 80% battery left at the beginning, range about 60 miles (based on the last person who drove it); we drove it fairly hard for 6 suburban miles (max speed about 55) and showed 52 miles left so perhaps a bit more accurate on the expected remaining range left. On decelerating, you can definitely 'feel' the regen slowing the car down w/o applying the brake pedal, it's not obnoxious but for those not used to it, may seem unusual versus the car just coasting. The car IMO does corner better than a LEAF which is kind of soft, but we all know that; even though the seat height is higher, it doesn't fell 'tippy' in corner's either. Road noise is completely absent (just like the LEAF) with only a slight rumble from the tires. The ED has no trouble keeping up with the suburban traffic we drove in, seem to handle a few rutted streets fine without much protest and no 'strange' noises like I've heard when driving a C-Max Energi in battery mode --- smart appears to have done a very good job with Tesla's help on the battery and electric motor, etc. As many may have mentioned, the smart fortwo chassis was always designed to accept an electric power train since its first iteration, the only exception that kind of was a cost saver on this was the fact that it's not a push button start/stop but rather you use a 'regular' ignition key just like the ICE and you turn the key to 'on' (of course no starter motor -- just not needed) so that's the only real odd thing here, otherwise it's well integrated. Other than that ED logo on the tridion rollcage you would never know it was an EV which some people prefer as well, smart car's are in general hard to miss anyway.
Here in the midwest, we still don't have access to the EV versions of the Fiat 500, Chevy Spark, Honda Fit, Rav4, etc. (perhaps never will, no 'compliance' requirement in IL) so 100% EV's are still fairly rare (not counting the Th!nk which was briefly 'assembled' in IN) so if you have a chance to drive one of these it's worth checking out. It will be interesting to see what smart does with the next redesign; more range?, we hope so; it's encouraging to see the increase in monthly ED numbers but these will eventually shrink again when the model changeover starts and dealers simply have zero cars to sell.
The car does accelerate very smoothly from a standstill, just like the LEAF, you can watch the impact of too much throttle on their own version of a GOM; the car we drove showed about 80% battery left at the beginning, range about 60 miles (based on the last person who drove it); we drove it fairly hard for 6 suburban miles (max speed about 55) and showed 52 miles left so perhaps a bit more accurate on the expected remaining range left. On decelerating, you can definitely 'feel' the regen slowing the car down w/o applying the brake pedal, it's not obnoxious but for those not used to it, may seem unusual versus the car just coasting. The car IMO does corner better than a LEAF which is kind of soft, but we all know that; even though the seat height is higher, it doesn't fell 'tippy' in corner's either. Road noise is completely absent (just like the LEAF) with only a slight rumble from the tires. The ED has no trouble keeping up with the suburban traffic we drove in, seem to handle a few rutted streets fine without much protest and no 'strange' noises like I've heard when driving a C-Max Energi in battery mode --- smart appears to have done a very good job with Tesla's help on the battery and electric motor, etc. As many may have mentioned, the smart fortwo chassis was always designed to accept an electric power train since its first iteration, the only exception that kind of was a cost saver on this was the fact that it's not a push button start/stop but rather you use a 'regular' ignition key just like the ICE and you turn the key to 'on' (of course no starter motor -- just not needed) so that's the only real odd thing here, otherwise it's well integrated. Other than that ED logo on the tridion rollcage you would never know it was an EV which some people prefer as well, smart car's are in general hard to miss anyway.
Here in the midwest, we still don't have access to the EV versions of the Fiat 500, Chevy Spark, Honda Fit, Rav4, etc. (perhaps never will, no 'compliance' requirement in IL) so 100% EV's are still fairly rare (not counting the Th!nk which was briefly 'assembled' in IN) so if you have a chance to drive one of these it's worth checking out. It will be interesting to see what smart does with the next redesign; more range?, we hope so; it's encouraging to see the increase in monthly ED numbers but these will eventually shrink again when the model changeover starts and dealers simply have zero cars to sell.
A
Anonymous
Guest
redLEAF said:
To clarify : Tesla did provide the Gen II Smart ED drive train, but the 2013+ Gen III Smart ED is completely in-house by Daimler including the Li-Tec battery with heat/cool conditioning, motor and control systems.
I've had 6 trouble free months at the wheel of my Smart ED and blogged my experiences:
http://mysmartelectricdrive.blogspot.ca/
Thanks for the more detailed review.
redLEAF
Well-known member
SmartElectric said:
That's quite true -- need to remember that aspect but it's actually made a bigger difference especially on the acceleration which was described as pretty lethargic with the early generation ED's which were sold/leased in quite small numbers; now if they could just get the range up a bit more I would think it would have a bit more appeal (of course no QC either but with a bit more range that could be forgiven as well). Great to hear your ED experience is going well, living with any EV will be different, will be curious if/when the ED has the LEAF's battery degradation issues but with their smart 'battery rental' program they've addressed that in their own way.
redLEAF
Well-known member
Could not resist ... new smart electric drive campaign (in Canada)
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/138...lectric-drive-beats-high-performance-vehicles
http://bit.ly/1rIf8l1
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/138...lectric-drive-beats-high-performance-vehicles
http://bit.ly/1rIf8l1
A
Anonymous
Guest
By FAR the least expensive electric car available in Canada:
https://www2.smart.com/ca/dealers/smartcenter-toronto/en/index/sales/2014-smart-electric-offer.html
That's about $1800 more discounts than I got when I purchased back in November 2013.
https://www2.smart.com/ca/dealers/smartcenter-toronto/en/index/sales/2014-smart-electric-offer.html
That's about $1800 more discounts than I got when I purchased back in November 2013.
redLEAF
Well-known member
smart just had a major release of information about the next generation smart fortwo and forfour (the later is NOT coming to the U.S. anytime soon); even further out would be a refresh of the existing electric drive ... as has been mentioned earlier, the new ICE car will be the same length but a bit wider; U.S. may get a manual but the auto trans has also received a major upgrade
http://transportevolved.com/2014/07...ed-plug-fans-will-wait-several-years-refresh/
With all three internal combustion engine choices available shortly after launch however, AutoExpress says Smart will continue to sell the existing Smart ForTwo Electric Drive alongside the next generation model. The transition of an all-electric drivetrain to the new model is something that could take several years, it hints, coming after the release of a soft-top Cabriolet model.
In other words, the Electric Drive variant isn’t a top priority for Daimler. Given the fact that Daimler relies heavily on Tesla for its other electric cars, that’s hardly a surprise — but consider that Daimler developed the new Smart ForTwo as part of a brand-new platform jointly developed with Renault for its new Twingo city car, and you might be left scratching your head.
Despite Renault’s pro-electric car stance and multiple electric car offerings however, it appears neither Renault or Daimler are convinced that an electric Smart ForTwo or Renault Twingo is a top priority for young urbanites looking for a funky, efficient car to navigate the urban jungle.
http://transportevolved.com/2014/07...ed-plug-fans-will-wait-several-years-refresh/
With all three internal combustion engine choices available shortly after launch however, AutoExpress says Smart will continue to sell the existing Smart ForTwo Electric Drive alongside the next generation model. The transition of an all-electric drivetrain to the new model is something that could take several years, it hints, coming after the release of a soft-top Cabriolet model.
In other words, the Electric Drive variant isn’t a top priority for Daimler. Given the fact that Daimler relies heavily on Tesla for its other electric cars, that’s hardly a surprise — but consider that Daimler developed the new Smart ForTwo as part of a brand-new platform jointly developed with Renault for its new Twingo city car, and you might be left scratching your head.
Despite Renault’s pro-electric car stance and multiple electric car offerings however, it appears neither Renault or Daimler are convinced that an electric Smart ForTwo or Renault Twingo is a top priority for young urbanites looking for a funky, efficient car to navigate the urban jungle.
GRA
Well-known member
One wonders if they borrowed a designer from Fiat, cause they're sure trying to channel the 500.
TomT
Well-known member
I can think of worse things. The Fiat 500EV is a nice package...
GRA said:
GRA
Well-known member
True. They've gone for the cutely aggressive look that the 500 pulls off so well. I don't think it works as well here, and until I see one in person I'm not sure that it's an improvement over the current Smart (there's one down the street).TomT said:
redLEAF
Well-known member
Almost 300 sold this past month (298 to be exact beating June) ...
http://insideevs.com/july-2014-plug-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
http://insideevs.com/july-2014-plug-electric-vehicle-sales-report-card/
redLEAF
Well-known member
No new smart ED until at least 2016 ... and then who knows how long the U.S. will get it ...
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114080479152/smart-forfour-electric-drive-confirmed-slated-for-2016
Likely to wear the Electric Drive badge, the zero-emissions ForTwo and ForFour will probably come out sometime around 2016 at the earliest.
http://www.worldcarfans.com/114080479152/smart-forfour-electric-drive-confirmed-slated-for-2016
Likely to wear the Electric Drive badge, the zero-emissions ForTwo and ForFour will probably come out sometime around 2016 at the earliest.
redLEAF
Well-known member
As reported elsewhere on the forum but in case you missed it ... smart ED's sales for August were down to 208 and were actually beat by the FFE which had sold over 200 (264 to be exact) as well as the Rav4 which I'm sure is also winding down whatever supplies are left of them.
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Came across this promo which is a quirky as any smart can be ... "Yo man, send that smart over" ... at least their marketing guys are having some fun with this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1MgbVjVf8w[/youtube]
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
Came across this promo which is a quirky as any smart can be ... "Yo man, send that smart over" ... at least their marketing guys are having some fun with this
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1MgbVjVf8w[/youtube]
redLEAF
Well-known member
A few dips in Sep & Oct but coming back fairly strong in Nov at over 300 for the first time ...
313 Sold ... highest month in U.S. since its introduction
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
SMART ForTwo Electric Drive:
“There can be only one” … champion of the “B” Division of EVs. And that champion is the smart ED.
All we can say for November (and we did when speaking to the Daimler rep) was “holy cow”, as smart sold 313 electric versions of their ForTwo. Once again, 313 copies of the little 2 seat EV – an all-time record for the car.
Previously in October smart continued to defy the odds, and sold 150 more EDs, which was about a fifth of the entire brands sales for the month. For September, the littlest EV sold an amazing 182 copies, leading the “small and compliance” segment of the US industry for the umpteenth time.
The smart EV is now technically available nationally, although there isn’t inventory yet spread out across the country to make physical sales everywhere.
313 Sold ... highest month in U.S. since its introduction
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/
SMART ForTwo Electric Drive:
“There can be only one” … champion of the “B” Division of EVs. And that champion is the smart ED.
All we can say for November (and we did when speaking to the Daimler rep) was “holy cow”, as smart sold 313 electric versions of their ForTwo. Once again, 313 copies of the little 2 seat EV – an all-time record for the car.
Previously in October smart continued to defy the odds, and sold 150 more EDs, which was about a fifth of the entire brands sales for the month. For September, the littlest EV sold an amazing 182 copies, leading the “small and compliance” segment of the US industry for the umpteenth time.
The smart EV is now technically available nationally, although there isn’t inventory yet spread out across the country to make physical sales everywhere.
redLEAF
Well-known member
Daimler Subsidiary Li-Tec Will Cease Lithium-Ion Battery Production In December 2015 ...
http://insideevs.com/daimler-subsid...lithium-ion-battery-production-december-2015/
<from article> This must indicate that we’re roughly a year and a half away from seeing smart electric drive with batteries from a different manufacturer. LG Chem according to Der Spiegel.
Current generation Brabus smart ED
http://insideevs.com/daimler-subsid...lithium-ion-battery-production-december-2015/
<from article> This must indicate that we’re roughly a year and a half away from seeing smart electric drive with batteries from a different manufacturer. LG Chem according to Der Spiegel.
Current generation Brabus smart ED
http://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
New record for smarts with over 351 sold!
I wouldn't be surprised if smarts end up with a #2 or #3 slot best selling EV in the US in a year or two. With such a low cost, a niche urban market that likely prefers an affordable but smaller-range battery, and no conventional smart ICE transmission, they're going to be doing quite well. The numbers are quite good considering you can barely find any physical inventory outside of CAFE states and there's a 4-5 month backorder on most smart ED orders outside the coasts.
And smart ED batteries (from MY2013 reports) degrade so little with time.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next-gen smart ED keeps a similar range and costs under $18k before tax credits.
New record for smarts with over 351 sold!
I wouldn't be surprised if smarts end up with a #2 or #3 slot best selling EV in the US in a year or two. With such a low cost, a niche urban market that likely prefers an affordable but smaller-range battery, and no conventional smart ICE transmission, they're going to be doing quite well. The numbers are quite good considering you can barely find any physical inventory outside of CAFE states and there's a 4-5 month backorder on most smart ED orders outside the coasts.
And smart ED batteries (from MY2013 reports) degrade so little with time.
I wouldn't be surprised if the next-gen smart ED keeps a similar range and costs under $18k before tax credits.
JeremyW
Well-known member
In and around Pasadena, I see electric smarts more often than the gas version. I also see FIat 500e's more than the gas version. In fact, I see the 500e more than the leaf some days! :shock:
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