Nissan wants to know.......

[thankyouOB]

stop dealer price gouging by limiting their access to new vehicles, or putting that dealer's new vehicles on the same boat as beachcliff's car.
cars? what cars?
dont believe that Nissan cant do something about it if they want to do something about it.
that is ridiculous.

remember GM closed some of its dealerships?
Nissan has the same power to control bad behavior by dealers who are harming the brand.

Yes - GM 'closed' dealerships - by filing for bankruptcy and reorganizing. The dealer contracts were with the old company that no longer exists. It's really good that Nissan's not needing a government bailout.

Nissan dealerships are independent businesses - Corporate can't control them any more than they can control McDonalds or WalMart. And that's a good thing. Unintended consequences are often worse than the 'issue' we're trying to 'fix'.

fooey

 

[charlie1300]

Actually, Lexus came up with a brilliant solution to the problem some years back when they introduced some particularly hot new models... A distributor can not control pricing but they can control distribution. So, they told the dealers that they were free to charge whatever they wanted but if they charged above msrp, their allocation would be cut. It worked like champ!

Actually, I have to give Nissan huge props in this area. Both Toyota (Prius) and GM (Volt) gave the dealers fixed allocations and had the buyers queue up at the dealer...giving the dealer maximum leverage. By taking reservations, they put the buyer in the drivers seat, for the most part.

Right, the reservation system allows Nissan to artificially restrict demand at the dealers so that demand equals supply from the dealer's prospective(RAQ/month = allocation/month). That seemed to minimize dealer gouging, without alienating the dealers.

 

[charlie1300]

Mike, maybe you can use you persuasive skills to explain that if Nissan is willing to "break the mold" technically with the Leaf, they should give it a go on the customer communications side. The "A/C fault causes shutdown" is a good case in point.

on the technical side, Nissan was all over the problem and had a software fix (even if it is temporary) in a matter of days from the first customer complain (even though they had a false start with the refrigerant replacement). So they get "well done" technically.

But now, as customers and dealers begin to recognize that many more may be affected and ask for basic info like who should report to the dealership and when to get the fix, Nissan has started to do the Toyota "stuck accelerator" dance. Stonewall, hide behind generalities, deny knowledge of facts they obviously have at hand. So some owners have taken it on their own to go request the fix be applied, at least one dealer has apparently decided on his own to call his customers and advise them to come in and get the fix, but Nissan Corp. needs to manage the customer communications part of this as aggressively as they managed the technical part. And managing customer communications doesn't mean clamming up.

With brand new technology, there are going to be more of these (I'm amazed that there hasn't been more to date). So Nissan really needs to get a handle on this. They need a communications process that's as nibble and efficient as their technical trouble shooting process.

 

[sdbonez]

The main guy indicated that they had discussed it, but the lawyers (gotta love 'em) said they had to have it as a liability issue to get consent to track data. I pointed out that they already had my consent by virtue of the CW username/pin combination and he immediately responded with "yeah, but what if someone borrows your car?"

If someone borrows my car, I WANT the data tracked...whether the person who borrowed wants to or not. It IS my car, after all.

When someone borrows your car, do the have to accept a DMV liability form because it's not registered in their name? no. Worst case, they can update the terms of use for carwings online, get us to accept 'even if someone borrows, steals, or otherwise drives your car, it's your responsibility', we click accept, nagging screen goes away. But yeah, I'd go with the compromise - anything's better than what it is now.

 

[dash]

I don't understand their legalese reasoning... So what if you, the owner, just decide to not accept the terms the one time you drive and something catastrophic happens? How is it easier to be protected (for Nissan) that way? I am in no way, shape, or form a lawyer, I'm just trying to understand why they can't remove the prompt all together or have your Carwings agreement suffice...

 

[tps]

So what if you, the owner, just decide to not accept the terms the one time you drive and something catastrophic happens?

My guess is that if you don't accept, it doesn't send your telematics data to Carwings.

To me, this "I accept" stuff is similar to having to press "I accept" before every phone call on your telephone. And it was even worse in the Hertz rental LEAF. Not only did I have to accept on the Nissan screen, I had to answer 3 questions on the tiny Hertz screen below it.

Some judge needs to rule that in the real world, almost no one reads this stuff before pressing the "I accept" button, so in fact, their acceptance is mostly meaningless. There is arguably more important stuff they could ask every time you start the car, such as "Are you going to continue to make your car payments?", but it seems that a single set of signatures at the point of purchase is sufficient for this question.

 

[malloryk]

1 Reliability
2 Delivering cars in proper order
3 charge stations in CW
4 dealers should have charging available 24/7/365 until some ev project infrastructure actually gets built
5 And allow CW to stay logged in and skip the "agree to" screen each time

(I do not have mine yet so mostly this is from the experience of others)

I agree with smkettner. Reliability referring to these AC problems people are having.

 

[mwalsh]

I agree with smkettner. Reliability referring to these AC problems people are having.

I think we're going to see that limited to a batch of cars, and most probably not to the ones delivered early, like ours.

However, that's not to say we don't have an interest in seeing our comrades properly accommodated with their issues. If, for nothing else, due to the fact that our own cars may be flashed with updates at some point that, if the bugs aren't worked out in them, could cause this problem for us too!

BTW, I already submitted a request for information on this issue by itself, being as it's clearly our number one issue right now. That was yesterday, so I guess we'll see what happens response-wise during the next few days.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

i will have to assume that all cars will get the software update including ours which have not exhibited the symptoms described.

if we do not get the update, then there is a manufacturing variance that is causing the issue for a few hundred cars and that is a very big thing. that shows a lack of quality control which is only slightly related to overall quality.

if they did it right the first time and varied from that path unknowingly, that could be scary. now if its traced to a change in supplier, then ok. (which is what i suspect since the fix came so quickly

 

[xtremeflyer]

Yes, they have.

I have already told them that it would be better to have a person dedicated to interacting with us. Gut feeling I get is that they found the last try more than a bit intimidating. I mean we're a pretty unforgiving crowd here (we should try to check that, BTW....the board is getting a bit of reputation, even with other EV enthusiasts!)

This is interesting to me, because another forum that I frequent is the Starwood forum at Flyertalk.com.. They have someone called the "Starwood Lurker" that works for Starwood and responds to issues that people have. He also announces things as they can be announced, usually a day before the public sees it. He has been so successful, that there is now a Starwood Lurker II and a Starwood Lurker III.. It is considered the model forum at Flyertalk.com

We are less people and our product is more specific, but there are also a lot of similarities. The Lurker has to deal with 950 different GMs owned by different companies (just like dealers) and on top of that, deal with Corporate policies that a hotel may or may not want to follow. I don't know why Nissan couldn't easily have a dedicated person here, at least for the short term. If the Lurker can't be overwhelmed by people complaining about one hair in the shower drain when they entered their room, I would think Nissan would be able to have one knowledgable person on here.

If I didn'tknow about the Lurker, I would say, wow, we sound like a crazy group, I could see why Nissan wouldn't want someone here, but knowing he can do it, in what I think is a much more complicated and dynamic group of people, then I can't imagine Nissan not being able to do it.

 

[mwalsh]

This is interesting to me, because another forum that I frequent is the Starwood forum at Flyertalk.com.. They have someone called the "Starwood Lurker" that works for Starwood and responds to issues that people have.

Likewise on the BA Forum part of that site. "BA Lurker" is his/her handle. I personally think it's an idea with a lot of merit.

 

[davewill]

The TiVo community forums had/have someone similar, TiVoPony. That person would sometimes speak personally and informally, and sometimes provide official "behind the scenes" info. It was quite often that panic would be averted just by him indicating that "people at TiVo" were aware of a problem. He didn't always respond and it was always understood that if you needed REAL support that you were to use the usual channels...but it worked pretty good.

 

[malloryk]

I agree with smkettner. Reliability referring to these AC problems people are having.

I think we're going to see that limited to a batch of cars, and most probably not to the ones delivered early, like ours.

However, that's not to say we don't have an interest in seeing our comrades properly accommodated with their issues. If, for nothing else, due to the fact that our own cars may be flashed with updates at some point that, if the bugs aren't worked out in them, could cause this problem for us too!

BTW, I already submitted a request for information on this issue by itself, being as it's clearly our number one issue right now. That was yesterday, so I guess we'll see what happens response-wise during the next few days.

Of course I'm interested in seeing that our fellow Leaf owners are taken care of! But I am concerned if this might mean a recall or some communication forthcoming re: the matter from Nissan to all of us. Sure to be a topic of discussion on Saturday at the OC meetup!

 

[leafkabob]

MWalsh said:
"BTW, I already submitted a request for information on this issue by itself, being as it's clearly our number one issue right now. That was yesterday, so I guess we'll see what happens response-wise during the next few days."

Mike, does this mean that you do not intend to submit the other 4 top issues? I agree that the air conditioning problem is the top issue (especially if you have your car), but for those of us caught up in the Pending drama, we would sure appreciate a little love from Nissan in the form of answers.

 

[kmp647]

A good suggestion to Nissan at this point would be to email people who have a reservation but have not yet been able to order. For many of us 1 year is about hit (april 2010)

They could say something like: We know its been a year since you reserved your Leaf and we are doing our best to build and ship the cars and get back to normal production. We now anticipate orders in your area will begin in ________(month year).I think that would go a long way and wouldnt commit them to to much specifics.

course telling us we will be getting 2012's and announcing the price and options would be great
but....... :roll:

 

[mwalsh]

Mike, does this mean that you do not intend to submit the other 4 top issues? I agree that the air conditioning problem is the top issue (especially if you have your car), but for those of us caught up in the Pending drama, we would sure appreciate a little love from Nissan in the form of answers.

Actually I submitted EVERYTHING you guys wrote in this thread - questions/observations/suggestions. EVERYTHING

The way it tabulated was the A/C issue did come out to be the top issue, as expected. Closely followed by inquiries about the apparent queue jumping, with the suggestion that Nissan outline the order process as it stands today. Then folks wanting to know what was going to happen with respect to orders outside the roll-out states, and when. Then questions/comments about the lack of charging infrastructure and the glacial pace of the EV Project/issues with the Blink. That was basically the top 5, though that actually comprised about 10 questions in all.

The balance of the questions I grouped together as they related - battery and charging, telematics/carwings, general vehicle features, etc....

 

[evnow]

The balance of the questions I grouped together as they related - battery and charging, telematics/carwings, general vehicle features, etc....

Can you post that here - always good to see a consolidated list.

 

[mwalsh]

Can you post that here - always good to see a consolidated list.

Yeah, sure...later. I'm getting my car ready for that green event at OCC. That's Orange Coast College, by the way, not Orange County Chopper. Not that we're in the right Orange County anyway. :lol:

 

[linkim]

Actually I submitted EVERYTHING you guys wrote in this thread - questions/observations/suggestions. EVERYTHING

Mike,
Thanks for your efforts in dealing with Nissan on the many questions/concerns with with LEAF experience. I hope we don't have to wait until they answer everything before you (we) get a response. Perhaps you can encourage them to release the answer(s) as they they complete them, rather than submitting a larger document. IMHO, at this stage of the delivery process, I think an answer to some of the questions is better than a prolonged wait.

 

[DaveEV]

It's interesting what a few days will make in how important various issues seem as well. I'd bet that if you polled for questions the AC issue (HV leak) would drop from the list as it has already been resolved by Nissan in my mind. All that's left is to apply the firmware fix to all the cars affected.