Nissan To Install 500 More Quick Charge Stations

[DaveinOlyWA]

Free chargers are bad in the long run. Free chargers limit the expansion of the charging network by discouraging market entrants from investing in infrastructure. I would prefer charge for charge that discourages connection time so people don't plug in and come back 24 hours later. $2.50 every 15 minutes for QC and $.25 for level 2s seems about right depending upon electric rates.

Agree on the free chargers & incentive to move car, but not so sure on the price.

On the surface, $2.50 doesn't seem like a big deal. But when you compare that to the cost of electricity at home, isn't it several times the typical rate? How would this compare to the amount of charge you'd get from an L2 in an hour? I know that the cost of a charge is priceless if you're out and nowhere near home Just interested in how it compares to that cost.

Forgive me, don't know the exact math on how much juice is pushed into the battery in 15m.

7-10 kwh

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2013/03/this-week-in-evville-working-for-power.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

comparison of public charging to home charging has no real business here. business rates are not the same as home rates. its like comparing the cost of a glass of water verses a bottle of water. there is simply is no way to do it.

 

[Valdemar]

Free chargers are bad in the long run. Free chargers limit the expansion of the charging network by discouraging market entrants from investing in infrastructure. I would prefer charge for charge that discourages connection time so people don't plug in and come back 24 hours later. $2.50 every 15 minutes for QC and $.25 for level 2s seems about right depending upon electric rates.

Agree on the free chargers & incentive to move car, but not so sure on the price.

On the surface, $2.50 doesn't seem like a big deal. But when you compare that to the cost of electricity at home, isn't it several times the typical rate? How would this compare to the amount of charge you'd get from an L2 in an hour? I know that the cost of a charge is priceless if you're out and nowhere near home Just interested in how it compares to that cost.

Forgive me, don't know the exact math on how much juice is pushed into the battery in 15m.

It depends on the initial SOC. On a 48kWh charger 12kWh is a theoretical maximum, realistically it should be about 10kWh if you start charging on empty battery. I think 2.50/15min is dirt cheap considering demand charges and equipment/maintedance costs.

 

[richard]

Connell has their charger installed. Mark Ranauro says this is the first Nissan QC in California.

They're still waiting for an inspection before public use. After that they're considering a free period transitioning to some payment system in the future.

 

[peter]

I second (third?) $2.50 per 15 mins which I like much better than the $X per session as this encourages shorter QC sessions and discourages waiting the extra half hour to charge from 80% to 100%.

I have no problem with paying more then at home or (horrors!) more then gas equivalent.

 

[Deleted member 8423]

comparison of public charging to home charging has no real business here. business rates are not the same as home rates. its like comparing the cost of a glass of water verses a bottle of water. there is simply is no way to do it.

Prepare to have your mind blown Dave, because I am about to do the unpossible...

Cost of water in Las Vegas (some of these are not actual numbers, just intended to reflect the typical scale of price differences):
Hotel Room/most Restaurants - free (glass)
Costco - 0.25/bottle
LVB overpass - 0.50/bottle
Walgreens - 1.50/bottle
Casino gift shop - 3.00/bottle
Hotel Room (minibar) - 5.00/bottle

So depending on where the purchase is made, the price can be different. Most folks wouldn't call 5.00/bottle a "reasonable" cost. Some will pay that, others will make the Costco stop instead.

I do not care at all what it costs the business to provide me with a service. I don't think about that when I go to a restaurant. I only care about the end cost of the product. At some point, the price for the product will be significantly high enough that I'll avoid purchasing it at some locations.

Note: I DO want to encourage more businesses to have chargers, so I agree that they should charge a rate that allows them to make a profit. I would just expect it to be reasonable. Everyone will have their own opinion on what that means.

 

[tbleakne]

Too bad there is only one QC station in San Juan Capistrano, no backup on that end of the trip. And I will have to use it in both directions. I don't really want to be stuck somewhere for several hours charging on L2. Also not too many L2 options around Legoland, so chances are I'm going to take my ICE car on this trip.

It hurts to see this kind of comment. Angus (Evaosis) has taken on a substantial business risk installing this DCQC. Asking for multiple units at one location is unreasonable for now.

Plugshare now reports the availability statistics of all networked stations from ChargePoint, etc. They are reporting 96-98% availability of the San Juan Capistrano DCQC. I feel you should be willing to accept, as a customer, these very favorable odds. Angus needs your business at this location so he can expand to other locations.

The older DCQC at Mitsubishi in Cerritos is constantly busy, but its users are willing to wait their turn.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Plugshare now reports the availability statistics of all networked stations from ChargePoint, etc. They are reporting 96-98% availability of the San Juan Capistrano DCQC. I feel you should be willing to accept, as a customer, these very favorable odds. Angus needs your business at this location so he can expand to other locations.

This charger has now done 500 charges since Nov 2011. The uptime is virtually 100% if you exclude folks who keep using the master shutoff by breaking the glass. Completely the opposite of anything government funded brand "B" has.

As I have been saying for about two years, not using AND/OR paying for the service these units provide doesn't make more units magically appear except for government funded ones. If you like the service, I hope you support it, and more will show up.

Disclaimer: I am an investor and the CTO of this company.

 

[DaveEV]

Confirmed list so far - did I miss any? This is going to double the number of QC stations in the LA area, nice (though that's not saying all that much!)

Nissan of Downtown LA - 635 West Washington Boulevard, Los Angeles, CA 90015
Nissan of Elk Grove 8590 Laguna Grove Dr, Elk Grove, CA 95757
Connell Nissan 2850 Harbor Blvd Costa Mesa, CA 92626
Glendale Nissan 727 S Brand Blvd Glendale, CA 91204

Google map of all locations: California Nissan QC Stations

BTW: I am all for paying for use of QC. For QCs, I'm a fan of paying by the minute like the San Juan Capistrano station does.

 

[Valdemar]

Too bad there is only one QC station in San Juan Capistrano, no backup on that end of the trip. And I will have to use it in both directions. I don't really want to be stuck somewhere for several hours charging on L2. Also not too many L2 options around Legoland, so chances are I'm going to take my ICE car on this trip.

It hurts to see this kind of comment. Angus (Evaosis) has taken on a substantial business risk installing this DCQC. Asking for multiple units at one location is unreasonable for now.

Plugshare now reports the availability statistics of all networked stations from ChargePoint, etc. They are reporting 96-98% availability of the San Juan Capistrano DCQC. I feel you should be willing to accept, as a customer, these very favorable odds. Angus needs your business at this location so he can expand to other locations.

The older DCQC at Mitsubishi in Cerritos is constantly busy, but its users are willing to wait their turn.

I hear you. The only thing I'm afraid of is that I will have hard time time explaining my kids why they missed half of day in Legoland should the odds fall in those 2-4% that day. I wouldn't have a second thought under other circumstances btw.

 

[DaveEV]

I hear you. The only thing I'm afraid of is that I will have hard time time explaining my kids why they missed half of day in Legoland should the odds fall in those 2-4% that day. I wouldn't have a second thought under other circumstances btw.

It's 35 miles to Legoland from San Juan Capistrano - how much charge will you have when you get to SJC? Worst case you get there on empty and have to charge on L2 at the Nissan dealership for 3 hours to make it Legoland. If you feel like you might come up short to Legoland, the Oceanside Transit Center is 8 miles from Legoland. The real problem will be getting home...

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

comparison of public charging to home charging has no real business here. business rates are not the same as home rates. its like comparing the cost of a glass of water verses a bottle of water. there is simply is no way to do it.

Prepare to have your mind blown Dave, because I am about to do the unpossible...

Cost of water in Las Vegas (some of these are not actual numbers, just intended to reflect the typical scale of price differences):
Hotel Room/most Restaurants - free (glass)
Costco - 0.25/bottle
LVB overpass - 0.50/bottle
Walgreens - 1.50/bottle
Casino gift shop - 3.00/bottle
Hotel Room (minibar) - 5.00/bottle

So depending on where the purchase is made, the price can be different. Most folks wouldn't call 5.00/bottle a "reasonable" cost. Some will pay that, others will make the Costco stop instead.

I do not care at all what it costs the business to provide me with a service. I don't think about that when I go to a restaurant. I only care about the end cost of the product. At some point, the price for the product will be significantly high enough that I'll avoid purchasing it at some locations.

Note: I DO want to encourage more businesses to have chargers, so I agree that they should charge a rate that allows them to make a profit. I would just expect it to be reasonable. Everyone will have their own opinion on what that means.

just checked and Costco water is $4.59 but you do get like 36 bottles. for a per bottle price, go to Trader Joes. its 23 cents each. just got 4 bottles yesterday.

but let me ask you...how do you figure the cost of electricity at home?

cant go solely by the utility rates because if public chargers only did it the way most homeowners would, then they could sell the power at 25 cents a kwh and make money.

but like us, they need to provide space for the charger. so now we need to know what your mortgage payments are before we can calculate your electricity costs. when you start looking at it that way, $2.50 is really a bargain especially in certain locations.

after all, prime locations downtown rent by the square foot so gotta figure out how much it costs to rent that chunk of asphalt and so on...

 

[Valdemar]

I hear you. The only thing I'm afraid of is that I will have hard time time explaining my kids why they missed half of day in Legoland should the odds fall in those 2-4% that day. I wouldn't have a second thought under other circumstances btw.

It's 35 miles to Legoland from San Juan Capistrano - how much charge will you have when you get to SJC? Worst case you get there on empty and have to charge on L2 at the Nissan dealership for 3 hours to make it Legoland. If you feel like you might come up short to Legoland, the Oceanside Transit Center is 8 miles from Legoland. The real problem will be getting home...

It depends, my plan A was to QC in downtown LA to 80-90% and be in SJC close to empty, plan B was to QC at Mitsu HQ to 80%. Not ideal but I guess if I charge to 100% in either location I can make it all the way to Legoland should SJC be down, may need a 30-60 minutes stop for L2 on the way. Going back is a concern, but if I can charge to 100% around Legoland I can limp back to either Mitsu HQ or downtown LA, again with some L2 on the way, the kids will likely be asleep so I might be able to avoid the "are we there yet" drama. SJC is in the critical spot and a single point of failure, but if it is online, as it usually is, the trip should be a no-brainer. I haven't fully given up on the idea yet

 

[Deleted member 8423]

I pay <x> at location A. I pay <3x> at location B. Probably not going to spend a lot of time buying stuff at location B.

 

[planet4ever]

I pay <x> at location A. I pay <3x> at location B. Probably not going to spend a lot of time buying stuff at location B.

Glad to hear that. You should do as much of your charging at home as possible. If the numbers of EVs grow as I hope they will, we will never have enough QCs for those to be the primary source of electricity. They should always be reserved for the "gotta have it" case. And in that case, I wouldn't mind paying $2.50, or even $5.00, for fifteen minutes that gets me 25 or 30 miles down the road.

Ray

 

[TonyWilliams]

BTW: I am all for paying for use of QC. For QCs, I'm a fan of paying by the minute like the San Juan Capistrano station does.

I hope we continue to lead the pack with this pricing model; I'm not aware of a single other US charger setup this way.

 

[KJD]

BTW: I am all for paying for use of QC. For QCs, I'm a fan of paying by the minute like the San Juan Capistrano station does.

I hope we continue to lead the pack with this pricing model; I'm not aware of a single other US charger setup this way.

What is the price per minute at San Juan Capistrano ?

 

[TonyWilliams]

BTW: I am all for paying for use of QC. For QCs, I'm a fan of paying by the minute like the San Juan Capistrano station does.

I hope we continue to lead the pack with this pricing model; I'm not aware of a single other US charger setup this way.

What is the price per minute at San Juan Capistrano ?

It's prorata:

From 19:15:00 To 10:45:00 $10.00 per hour

All Other Times $15.00 per hour

https://na.chargepoint.com/cpn_find_stations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EVOASIS / EVOASIS SJC
33711 Camino Capistrano, San Juan Capistrano, California 92675, United States
Notes: Please check in at front desk for assistance
Port 1: (400/400V, 62A, CHAdeMO) Available
Reservations Disabled

 

[Valdemar]

It's prorata:

From 19:15:00 To 10:45:00 $10.00 per hour

All Other Times $15.00 per hour

It is a 25kW charger, right? How long does it take to charge, say from LBW to 80%?

 

[KJD]

It's prorata:

From 19:15:00 To 10:45:00 $10.00 per hour

All Other Times $15.00 per hour

https://na.chargepoint.com/cpn_find_stations" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EVOASIS / EVOASIS SJC
33711 Camino Capistrano, San Juan Capistrano, California 92675, United States
Notes: Please check in at front desk for assistance
Port 1: (400/400V, 62A, CHAdeMO) Available
Reservations Disabled

If there were any of these in my area, I would use them.
The only public charge stations around here are L2 at some of the Walgreens stores.

 

[dhanson865]

BTW: I am all for paying for use of QC. For QCs, I'm a fan of paying by the minute like the San Juan Capistrano station does.

I hope we continue to lead the pack with this pricing model; I'm not aware of a single other US charger setup this way.

So you are looking forward to people standing by the charger to pull out as soon as they have enough charge like they are pumping gas at a gas station?

I suppose if it is an L3 and it goes quick enough you could stand there watching it charge then move the car immediately after hitting your desired charge.

I'd feel sorry for the person that wonders why it charges so slow after it hits 80% and ends up paying outrageous prices to charge the last few percent.