Gas at 67 cents a gallon

[LTLFTcomposite]

The other day there was a letter to the editor in the "paper" newspaper (remember those?) from a reader complaining that there is no information available about the cost to charge electric cars. Of course this is patently false but that letter shines a light on just how uninformed or misinformed many are on the topic. I would post a link but couldn't find the letter on their web site.

Anyway whenever I tell people I'm on the waiting list for a Leaf a common comment is "yeah but your electric bill will go way up". I have taken to responding that yes, it will go up, but it's the equivalent of getting gas at 67 cents a gallon.

A lot of people don't understand cents/mile, miles/kWh, cents/kWh, etc but everyone seems to understand gas prices. Of course I don't have the car yet, so the discussion is academic, but its a good way to get the point across.

Anyway, somebody check my math

 

[davewill]

You have to provide a some assumptions to come up with a number like that:

1. Price of electricity
2. Some representative miles per gallon. Either your old car, or some "typical" mileage.
3. An assumed (or actual if you have it) mpk or range per full charge to use.

 

[jcesare]

The other day there was a letter to the editor in the "paper" newspaper (remember those?) from a reader complaining that there is no information available about the cost to charge electric cars. Of course this is patently false but that letter shines a light on just how uninformed or misinformed many are on the topic. I would post a link but couldn't find the letter on their web site.

Anyway whenever I tell people I'm on the waiting list for a Leaf a common comment is "yeah but your electric bill will go way up". I have taken to responding that yes, it will go up, but it's the equivalent of getting gas at 67 cents a gallon.

A lot of people don't understand cents/mile, miles/kWh, cents/kWh, etc but everyone seems to understand gas prices. Of course I don't have the car yet, so the discussion is academic, but its a good way to get the point across.

Anyway, somebody check my math

After 2 weeks I'm getting 4 cents/mile. My current ICE car get 23 mpg. That $.92 /gal equivalent.
It will really depend on your rate. I'm on TOU EPEV-X (low), which is $0.13860 kWh Summer Super-Off Peak

 

[thankyouOB]

my costs with the LADWP EV rate of around 8.7 cents/kWh is about 2 cents a mile.
it is equivalent of 50-cent/gallon gasoline.

The way I think of it is that the fuel cost is 1/8 to 1/9 of gasoline = $4.50 premium.

 

[adric22]

Yeah, I get this same argument a lot. And the one I hate the most is telling me about burning coal to power my car. I've posted this before, but it was a while back so I'll post it again. I made this video in response to that very topic:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8yjoPTesLU[/youtube]

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

You have to provide a some assumptions to come up with a number like that:

1. Price of electricity
2. Some representative miles per gallon. Either your old car, or some "typical" mileage.
3. An assumed (or actual if you have it) mpk or range per full charge to use.

I was thinking a conventional car the size of the Leaf would get about 30mpg. At $2.80 per hundred miles in electricity for the Leaf, it would take 84 cents in electricity to cover the same 30 miles the gallon of gas would have gotten me in the conventional car. I don't remember how I got 67 cents now

 

[evnow]

Anyway, somebody check my math

Depends on your current car (and your local utility rate).

Since I'm getting 3.3 m/kwh (at the wall) and 11 cents/kwh, that translates to 3.4 cents / mile.

If I had a 20 mpg car, it would be like 68 cents a gallon.
If I had a 30 mpg car, it would be like 102 cents a gallon.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Another point usually neglected is that a coal power plant is a furnace, which is inherently more efficient than an engine. They wring every BTU they can out of coal.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

Anyway, somebody check my math

Depends on your current car (and your local utility rate).

Since I'm getting 3.2 m/kwh (at the wall) and 11 cents/kwh, that translates to 3 cents / mile.

If I had a 20 mpg car, it would be like 60 cents a gallon.
If I had a 30 mpg car, it would be like 90 cents a gallon.

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

 

[evnow]

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

I don't understand that at all - The whole point is to compare electric & gas drive trains.

The eq. gas of 60 or 100 cents a gallon is based on the cost to drive a certain miles.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

... and continuing that thinking, if you assume at some point they'll have an EV version of the Armada, there would be a corresponding comparison.

I wonder now if it will be more or less favorable for the EV. I'm thinking more.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

I don't understand that at all - The whole point is to compare electric & gas drive trains.

The eq. gas of 60 or 100 cents a gallon is based on the cost to drive a certain miles.

Because you need to compare an equivalent car. Or am I missing something?

 

[jcesare]

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

I don't understand that at all - The whole point is to compare electric & gas drive trains.

The eq. gas of 60 or 100 cents a gallon is based on the cost to drive a certain miles.

You can't easily compare kWh to gallons of gas (although the EPA has attempted this, thus 99 mpg) A better way is to determine the usage by mile and do the math. IMO The only number that really makes sense is cost per mile. My energy cost is $0.19/mile for my ICE and $0.04/mile for my LEAF.

 

[jhm614]

Anyway, somebody check my math

Depends on your current car (and your local utility rate).

Since I'm getting 3.2 m/kwh (at the wall) and 11 cents/kwh, that translates to 3 cents / mile.

If I had a 20 mpg car, it would be like 60 cents a gallon.
If I had a 30 mpg car, it would be like 90 cents a gallon.

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

Looks like I ran about a buck-seven per gallon for April. ($43.50 in e for the Leaf, replacing 40.5 gallons in a 35mpg Mini Cooper).

j.

 

[TRONZ]

What is more important about this cost question is that the question has been enabled in the first place. With an EV your costs are NOT being dictated to you by oil companies! Average costs and sources for electricity are much lower than gasoline and will vary by individual. It's a great starting point! But what EV's reall enable is the FREEDOM to see what works best for you and pick the cleanest and cheapest electricity sources. After all, there are a multitude of way to make and get electricity. YOU get to decide what's most important, NOT oil companies!

EX; I would eventually like to have PV and will work in that direction. In the mean time I have replaced 2500w of household Halogen bulbs with CFL that draws 500w. It will make a dent in our energy costs and a choice I got to make. Freedom to do this kind of individual energy management and have it further lower our "fuel" costs is what I feel is most important about EV's and the cost question. I AM NOW PART OF THE PROCESS!

 

[greenleaf]

I charge at PG&E's E9a off-peak rate of $0.053 / kWh. At 3.5 miles / kWh (measured from the wall), I am paying 1.5 cents / mile.

 

[smkettner]

True, but for the "gas a X cents a gallon" comparison to be fair you need to ask what fuel economy would the Leaf get if it were an ICE car. I would guess slightly less than a Versa.

I don't understand that at all - The whole point is to compare electric & gas drive trains.

The eq. gas of 60 or 100 cents a gallon is based on the cost to drive a certain miles.

It is not really fair to compare Leaf to my ten year old F150 at 15 mpg.
Very different vehicles.

There are two steps. First an economy savings from Leaf being a smaller vehicle and second is the savings from using electric.

 

[wwhitney]

I charge at PG&E's E9a off-peak rate of $0.053 / kWh. At 3.5 miles / kWh (measured from the wall), I am paying 1.5 cents / mile.

Right, but $0.053/kWh is only the Tier I and II rate. Is your total household plus LEAF usage really less than 130% of baseline?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[greenleaf]

I charge at PG&E's E9a off-peak rate of $0.053 / kWh. At 3.5 miles / kWh (measured from the wall), I am paying 1.5 cents / mile.

Right, but $0.053/kWh is only the Tier I and II rate. Is your total household plus LEAF usage really less than 130% of baseline?

Cheers, Wayne

Yes. I have solar to offset that.

 

[Long4Leaf]

That is why I went with a second meter, E9b. $.066 /kWh, ~2cents/mile.