eVgo Unveils Houston's 1st 30 minutes Charging Site

[erdalc]

I charged my car today at Whole Foods easily. I do not have a chargepoint pass yet, but when I called their customer service I was able do so. It is free by Whole Foods. I would never plan to use a DC quick charger. Since the leafs are for city all we need is for emergencies. If you are driving more than 100 miles daily, I would suggest prius plug in not leaf.

 

[Danal]

So say what you will, but some of us have absolutely relied on eVgo and the DC chargers

Where else besides Beltline and Montfort is there an evgo DC station?

That's the only one in DFW for now. I was talking to the maintenance guy at the station the other evening and he said that Plano, Duncanville and the Mid-Cities were next in line (40 more planned for the region).

Correct. That's the only one in DFW at the moment. Their web site shows planned stations. https://www.evgonetwork.com/eVgo_Charging_Stations/#Pane2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And remember, you won't get billed for network use until 70 of them are active. Therefore, if you are on their "On the Go" network only plan (which is still NOT on the web site), you won't get billed at all.

Therefore, I signed up. This means I should pay a $19 activation fee, and pay nothing else until they have 70 stations in DFW. At the end of 1 year, I can cancel in any month. I don't believe they will have 70 stations within 12 months of my start date, and therefore I should never get into the $99 early termination fee that applies to the first year. After they have 70 stations, I'll decide whether to start paying the $39 per month, or just cancel. Meanwhile, free quick charging, should I ever need it. Yeah!

And, by the way, not only does the contract read this way for the "On the Go plan", but I spoke face-to-face with their regional rep and he described it this way. I spoke to him, by total coincidence, the day they announce this plan. I mention this because the contract is long and confusing... but if you parse it enough, it really does say this.

 

[Danal]

You costs are not accurate (well, they may be for just the electricity). Lots of other far bigger costs. Here in San Diego, your $3 worth of electricity gets an additional monthly charge, every month, of $4000. Then insurance, depreciation, maintenance, legal (how many times do you think they'll get sued for the stupidest stuff?), etc.

I doubt there's not a demand fee structure in DFW, albeit I'm confident it's cheaper.

Couldn't agree more on both points. There are lots of other costs, and there are cheaper commercial rate plans. Nonetheless, charging should be a commodity. Clearly it isn't, yet, but it should become one. And commodity pricing is very driven by "materials input" costs, with all other overhead driven downward to allow a razor thin profit margin.

Again, EV charging isn't there yet... nonetheless, that framework drives my thinking with regard to what I'd pay for a "by the use" quick charge.

And, yes, my thinking makes it very, VERY tough for a startup in the QC market. That was part of my point, about which I was unclear: I agree there is little business case at this point, and that makes the chicken/egg problem much worse.

Obviously, companies like eVgo either see it differently than I do, or they are long-term investing and trying to get first mover advantage that will pay back years from now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Obviously, companies like eVgo either see it differently than I do, or they are long-term investing and trying to get first mover advantage that will pay back years from now.

Even in the best of times, years down the road, when everybody has an EV, that current 48kW charger can only offer about 25 of the 30 minute charges if it operates 24 hours a day. Since I think most charges will be only 10 or 20 minutes, there will be more car turnover at the pump, which takes quite a bit of time. Charges won't be "back to back", just like they aren't at a gas station. There's several minutes, at least, between events.

At best, I think, 750 minutes of chance to eek out a little profit, and hope nobody breaks the multi thousand dollar equipment, and that it stays at almost 100% dependable, that oil doesn't get cheap again, etc.

Then, for instance in San Diego, what if I have a DC charger barely making it, as I pay SDGE their gigantic fees, and then the CPUC approves SDGE's entry into the market. Probably instant failure, as SDGE can almost give away the charges when they control all the major costs.

Then, when everybody is run out of business, and gasoline is $10 gallon, and EVs are the bulk of new car sales... now, they can "make back all their losses" (that will be their opening line to the CPUC when they want to charge you up to $50 for a charge).

 

[DaveEV]

Since I think most charges will be only 10 or 20 minutes, there will be more car turnover at the pump, which takes quite a bit of time. Charges won't be "back to back", just like they aren't at a gas station. There's several minutes, at least, between events.

The dual-plug Blink is a nice solution here...

 

[Danal]

Obviously, companies like eVgo either see it differently than I do, or they are long-term investing and trying to get first mover advantage that will pay back years from now.

Even in the best of times, years down the road, when everybody has an EV, that current 48kW charger can only offer about 25 of the 30 minute charges if it operates 24 hours a day. Since I think most charges will be only 10 or 20 minutes, there will be more car turnover at the pump, which takes quite a bit of time. Charges won't be "back to back", just like they aren't at a gas station. There's several minutes, at least, between events.

First movers will have the locations to put in different equipment. Who knows what tech in the charger... supercapacitor buffers between pump and utility, who knows what tech in the cars... so any math on number of charges is premature. It's possible that 5 years from now the in-car-energy storage will be more kWH and a QC will take LONGER! :shock: But, assuming advances all around, perhaps it comes down to 15 min. That's not that far off from the time an ICE car may be at the pump, and I've seen stations that turn many cars through the same pump at peak times.

All that being said, I agree it is very tough to make any of the EV QC scenarios look profitable. But, who thought that a Soda Jerk's experiments in the 1880s would eventually lead to a multi-billion dollar company (pick nearly any of them) today? I pick that industry because there have been (and still are) many attempts to enter it 100+ years after it started. Including some VERY well bank-rolled attempts in the last 30 years. None have really succeeded as much as the three or four big guys... all of whom were first movers.


Fun to discuss, anyway.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Since I think most charges will be only 10 or 20 minutes, there will be more car turnover at the pump, which takes quite a bit of time. Charges won't be "back to back", just like they aren't at a gas station. There's several minutes, at least, between events.

The dual-plug Blink is a nice solution here...

AV has the dual plug as an option.

 

[TonyWilliams]

First movers will have the locations to put in different equipment. Who knows what tech in the charger... supercapacitor buffers between pump and utility, who knows what tech in the cars... so any math on number of charges is premature. It's possible that 5 years from now the in-car-energy storage will be more kWH and a QC will take LONGER! :shock: But, assuming advances all around, perhaps it comes down to 15 min.

Except, if you're charging per minute of use, then it's the same revenue... maybe more, since less cars are jockeying for the fuel pumps.