Electrify America Network

[DaveinOlyWA]

Indeed. It's a fair amount of lost revenue. I'm seeing other posts in FB groups today with people still reporting free EA sessions, including one taken at a bit past noon (their unknown to me time zone).

ANNND, looks like the free train is over. Just got an email from EA inviting me to check out the new features in the app.

 

[cwerdna]

I received the email ("Redesigned with you in mind: our new app") at 10:40 am Pacific time but their iOS app update came out yesterday. I updated and ran the app yesterday.

For me, last night, it was just plug in and wait awhile then the charging would start. Didn't use app, NFC nor credit card.

 

[salyavin]

I am glad EA did this (I missed the free train), I seem to recall a maintenance outage taking out a good section of their chargers in the past this can be a huge deal if one is on a road trip. Setting it to free when payment does not work is better than off and potentially stranding people.

 

[cwerdna]

Was definitely free for some people earlier today per multiple reports on Bolt FB groups and chevybolt.org. It may have ended now.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Syracuse NY in Plugshare is also showing a second Chademo...no confirmation in the EA app yet though.

That's less than 10 miles from me. Maybe I'll swing by later and check it out.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Syracuse NY in Plugshare is also showing a second Chademo...no confirmation in the EA app yet though.

That's less than 10 miles from me. Maybe I'll swing by later and check it out.

Stopped by over my lunch break. This is definitely an error. Three of the pedestals have two CCS cables. The fourth has one CCS and one CHAdeMO.

There was also some construction equipment and a contractor van present. The driver of the van looked like he was enjoying his own lunch break so I didn't pester him.

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Shucks. Looks. Like other just the one EA with 2 Chademos.

Thank you for checking.

 

[cwerdna]

Came across https://twitter.com/ARebuilds/status/1370423991907844096 which points to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU6FVAj-Qb/?igshid=n2tcnl0xkf. The video creator (i3 REx driver) shows a Model 3 backed into a space but the Model 3 leaving because they didn't have the proper adapter.

Not incredibly surprised that a Tesla driver would be not informed about DC FC standards and the need for a CHAdeMO adapter (or CCS, but not shipping yet) to use these... But, also that they'd be hosed if the single CHAdeMO handle or its charger is down, even if they had the adapter.

 

[GRA]

Came across https://twitter.com/ARebuilds/status/1370423991907844096 which points to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU6FVAj-Qb/?igshid=n2tcnl0xkf. The video creator (i3 REx driver) shows a Model 3 backed into a space but the Model 3 leaving because they didn't have the proper adapter.

Not incredibly surprised that a Tesla driver would be not informed about DC FC standards and the need for a CHAdeMO adapter (or CCS, but not shipping yet) to use these... But, also that they'd be hosed if the single CHAdeMO handle or its charger is down, even if they had the adapter.

Me either - see the sixth paragraph here:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32008&p=600682&hilit=Bridgeport#p600682

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Came across https://twitter.com/ARebuilds/status/1370423991907844096 which points to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU6FVAj-Qb/?igshid=n2tcnl0xkf. The video creator (i3 REx driver) shows a Model 3 backed into a space but the Model 3 leaving because they didn't have the proper adapter.

Not incredibly surprised that a Tesla driver would be not informed about DC FC standards and the need for a CHAdeMO adapter (or CCS, but not shipping yet) to use these... But, also that they'd be hosed if the single CHAdeMO handle or its charger is down, even if they had the adapter.

Me either - see the sixth paragraph here:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32008&p=600682&hilit=Bridgeport#p600682

I've even seen negative marks on PlugShare (in this case, it was an EVgo charger) that the plug would not fit the driver's brand-new Model 3. So she marked the unit as could-not-charge (reducing the score). It turns out, she was trying to use her J1772 adapter with the CCS plug. Clearly that is not going to work. She didn't even know a CHAdeMO adapter exists.

 

[danrjones]

Came across https://twitter.com/ARebuilds/status/1370423991907844096 which points to https://www.instagram.com/p/CMU6FVAj-Qb/?igshid=n2tcnl0xkf. The video creator (i3 REx driver) shows a Model 3 backed into a space but the Model 3 leaving because they didn't have the proper adapter.

Not incredibly surprised that a Tesla driver would be not informed about DC FC standards and the need for a CHAdeMO adapter (or CCS, but not shipping yet) to use these... But, also that they'd be hosed if the single CHAdeMO handle or its charger is down, even if they had the adapter.

Me either - see the sixth paragraph here:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32008&p=600682&hilit=Bridgeport#p600682

I've even seen negative marks on PlugShare (in this case, it was an EVgo charger) that the plug would not fit the driver's brand-new Model 3. So she marked the unit as could-not-charge (reducing the score). It turns out, she was trying to use her J1772 adapter with the CCS plug. Clearly that is not going to work. She didn't even know a CHAdeMO adapter exists.

This does sort of highlight the problem with charging and EVs, and moving from early adopters to the "rest". If you pull your gas er up to a gas station you expect to be able to fuel. As long as you don't accidentally use a green handled pump...

But with EVs we have multiple connectors, brand specific... and now Rivian will have a CCS that nobody else can use.

I almost wonder if we don't need the feds to step in and mandate one universal charging standard, open to all. Perhaps allowing companies like rivian or tesla to set higher prices for other brands, but never leaving any stranded.

I totally get the value of the tesla charging network, and rivian to follow, for their brand. But I'm not convinced it's helpful to EV adoption as a whole.

 

[cwerdna]

Of course, I have to add this comic.

from https://xkcd.com/927/.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Me either - see the sixth paragraph here:
https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=32008&p=600682&hilit=Bridgeport#p600682

I've even seen negative marks on PlugShare (in this case, it was an EVgo charger) that the plug would not fit the driver's brand-new Model 3. So she marked the unit as could-not-charge (reducing the score). It turns out, she was trying to use her J1772 adapter with the CCS plug. Clearly that is not going to work. She didn't even know a CHAdeMO adapter exists.

This does sort of highlight the problem with charging and EVs, and moving from early adopters to the "rest". If you pull your gas er up to a gas station you expect to be able to fuel. As long as you don't accidentally use a green handled pump...

But with EVs we have multiple connectors, brand specific... and now Rivian will have a CCS that nobody else can use.

I almost wonder if we don't need the feds to step in and mandate one universal charging standard, open to all. Perhaps allowing companies like rivian or tesla to set higher prices for other brands, but never leaving any stranded.

I totally get the value of the tesla charging network, and rivian to follow, for their brand. But I'm not convinced it's helpful to EV adoption as a whole.

Well, you "can't" use the green handle and in that regard, public charging is even. People who show up to Sam's Club trying to use their Costco card for discounts will see the same issue. Plugshare PLAINLY lists what plugs are available but apparently, not plain enough.

Not sure, I can use edge cases as ammunition for "how it should be" especially in this case or any other mistaken plug cases.

Speaking of gas; you should look up gassing up challenges of the 30's. You will find a lot of the same issues with compatibility and that continued until there were rules requiring standards. So can we expect the government to step up and do the same?

 

[SageBrush]

I almost wonder if we don't need the feds to step in and mandate one universal charging standard, open to all. Perhaps allowing companies like rivian or tesla to set higher prices for other brands, but never leaving any stranded.

In Rivian's case their DC FC network is not a standards issue, they are simply restricting its use to Rivian owners. This is the same situation as Tesla in Europe.

WHY is Rivian choosing to limit access ? I'm sure part of it is a desire to replicate Tesla's plug&play convenience. I'm not sure about other reasons but Tesla may be informative: Tesla does not want to degrade the FC experience for Tesla drivers by allowing slow charging cars, or more cars than the location can handle at one time. Or muck around with apps and credit cards and charging networks

I'll also guess that Rivian is planning a battery augmented charging system, which likely leaves them capacity limited. And perhaps Rivian is hoping to convince other EV manufacturers to help defray the cost of the network in return for access.

 

[danrjones]

I've even seen negative marks on PlugShare (in this case, it was an EVgo charger) that the plug would not fit the driver's brand-new Model 3. So she marked the unit as could-not-charge (reducing the score). It turns out, she was trying to use her J1772 adapter with the CCS plug. Clearly that is not going to work. She didn't even know a CHAdeMO adapter exists.

This does sort of highlight the problem with charging and EVs, and moving from early adopters to the "rest". If you pull your gas er up to a gas station you expect to be able to fuel. As long as you don't accidentally use a green handled pump...

But with EVs we have multiple connectors, brand specific... and now Rivian will have a CCS that nobody else can use.

I almost wonder if we don't need the feds to step in and mandate one universal charging standard, open to all. Perhaps allowing companies like rivian or tesla to set higher prices for other brands, but never leaving any stranded.

I totally get the value of the tesla charging network, and rivian to follow, for their brand. But I'm not convinced it's helpful to EV adoption as a whole.

Well, you "can't" use the green handle and in that regard, public charging is even. People who show up to Sam's Club trying to use their Costco card for discounts will see the same issue. Plugshare PLAINLY lists what plugs are available but apparently, not plain enough.

Not sure, I can use edge cases as ammunition for "how it should be" especially in this case or any other mistaken plug cases.

Speaking of gas; you should look up gassing up challenges of the 30's. You will find a lot of the same issues with compatibility and that continued until there were rules requiring standards. So can we expect the government to step up and do the same?

Maybe it depends on the country you are in. I had a coworker many years ago who was over in Europe and had a rental car, and on the way back to the airport he filled it up. A few miles later, it died. He realized he had put regular into a diesel. I believe you are right that in the US, you can't put diesel into a regular but you could potentially do it the other way.


Maybe the better question would have been, how would people feel if they showed up to a gas station that sold regular gas they needed, but they weren't allowed to fill up. It was for Honda owners only.

TFL cars just did a update that touched this topic, and their verdict is that charging is still a bit of a mess.
How many apps do each of you have just to be able to charge? I have plugshare, EA, Chargepoint and EV Connect. I'm sure other folks have more. I can't disagree with TFL.

As I said, obviously good for Tesla and Rivian owners but perhaps not good for eVs overall.

 

[WetEV]

As I said, obviously good for Tesla and Rivian owners but perhaps not good for eVs overall.

Good for Tesla, as long as Tesla can keep a larger than majority market share. Rivian?

Remember that demand charges and other factors make each charge cheaper the more utilization a station gets. The more stations, the more the network is useful to drivers.

I don't see how Rivian can win this game. Too small of market share.

 

[danrjones]

As I said, obviously good for Tesla and Rivian owners but perhaps not good for eVs overall.

Good for Tesla, as long as Tesla can keep a larger than majority market share. Rivian?

Remember that demand charges and other factors make each charge cheaper the more utilization a station gets. The more stations, the more the network is useful to drivers.

I don't see how Rivian can win this game. Too small of market share.

Yes, which could mean that Rivian would be better off to allow all CCS folks to utilize their new network, but simply give Rivians free charging and everyone else not. And put time limits on your charge for non Rivians. It would be a balance of Rivian trying to recoup some cost and increase utilization, while also not crowding the stations to the point the Rivian owners have to wait.

But it did work for tesla, so given enough $$$ and Rivian owners, it could work for them.


Someday this will all be moot when charging stations are so prevalent you can't go around street corner without finding one. But not yet.
In my area I wouldn't even go somewhere that doesn't have at least two separate installs - > not that I can anyway since my 2018 Leaf is too short range. But hopefully this fall that will change, and I can utilize my EV for more than just daily driving to work.

 

[danrjones]

Of course, I have to add this comic.

from https://xkcd.com/927/.

That seems even more appropriate for all the apps you need to charge.

If only their was one App to rule them all.... somewhere in Mordor perhaps?

 

[SageBrush]

Yes, which could mean that Rivian would be better off to allow all CCS folks to utilize their new network, but simply give Rivians free charging and everyone else not. And put time limits on your charge for non Rivians. It would be a balance of Rivian trying to recoup some cost and increase utilization, while also not crowding the stations to the point the Rivian owners have to wait.

I'm pretty sure that the lion's share of the cost is going to be the installation, so if non-Rivian EVs are not putting in their fair share of that cost, Rivian will not be interested in granting them access. The public charging networks are a different story because it is almost universally true that the money came from either VW, the gov, or gov subsidy.

 

[danrjones]

Yes, which could mean that Rivian would be better off to allow all CCS folks to utilize their new network, but simply give Rivians free charging and everyone else not. And put time limits on your charge for non Rivians. It would be a balance of Rivian trying to recoup some cost and increase utilization, while also not crowding the stations to the point the Rivian owners have to wait.

I'm pretty sure that the lion's share of the cost is going to be the installation, so if non-Rivian EVs are not putting in their fair share of that cost, Rivian will not be interested in granting them access. The public charging networks are a different story because it is almost universally true that the money came from either VW, the gov, or gov subsidy.

Didn't Tesla also look for partners and nobody stepped up? Can't remember the history on that.