WetEV
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:... except for the Rivian Adventure networkWetEV said:
A good point. Even if using a public standard, restriction to one or more EV manufacturer(s) is not free.
Electrify America Network
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A good point. Even if using a public standard, restriction to one or more EV manufacturer(s) is not free.
'Gas' stations were capitalized by a mixture of small business and fuel supplier money. For them, the 'everybody is welcome' approach made the most money for them. It is not reasonable to ignore the very different capitalization of EV DC charging networks such as Tesla and Rivian where the charging networks are a manufacturer expense, spent to sell cars.danrjones said:
Ionity in Europe probably has the right idea: make a consortium of EV manufacturers so that the network expense is shared between them.
The US model (such as it is, other than spending VW money) of public money to subsidize private building of public charging has some success (chargepoint, EVgo) and a whole lot of network in varying degrees of break-down by companies that profited during the build but are not financially motivated to operate and maintain the network in good working order.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
SageBrush said:
But its slow and inconsistent. Its not a national thing. Its a localized thing. The disparity from one area to another is the reason why EVs struggle. I have been places where I likely wouldn't have gone EV simply because I would have been restricted to this little 40 mile circle centered around my home. Its only a little better now but only because the inevitability has finally dawned upon all of us.
The increase in violence and anger is the knee jerk response of diesel smoking pickups making their one last stand knowing they are going to lose. Well, knowing is far from accepting which means those areas will continue their slow growth of infrastructure (if its even allowed yet)
cwerdna
Well-known member
TIL I learned of this outrageous location in Everett, WA: https://www.plugshare.com/location/163287.
It has 19 SAE Combo and 1 CHADeMO. Can you spell minimum effort and f@#$ CHAdeMO cars? Someone in a FB group showed all the plugs not in use EXCEPT the CHAdeMO one.
The absurdity makes me even more annoyed at VW. It was already highly unlikely I'd buy or lease one of VW AG's cars but boy, this takes the cake.
It has 19 SAE Combo and 1 CHADeMO. Can you spell minimum effort and f@#$ CHAdeMO cars? Someone in a FB group showed all the plugs not in use EXCEPT the CHAdeMO one.
The absurdity makes me even more annoyed at VW. It was already highly unlikely I'd buy or lease one of VW AG's cars but boy, this takes the cake.
salyavin
Well-known member
I guess I don't get the anger. How many models are currently for sale new that support CHAdeMO? Just one, the LEAF. Now look at all the CCS models. How many VW cars support CHAdeMO? None. Who made EA? VW did. We at least get a CHAdeMO port. Rivian is installing NO CHAdeMO at all, not ONE port. They are CCS only for fast charging and not only that their DC fast chargers will ONLY talk to Rivian cars and might open to others in the future. That is far worse as EA is open to every CCS and CHAdeMO car regardless of who makes it. EVGo just installs inside certain cities and is pretty useless for long distance travel and has a low number of ports so they are fairly useless. EA allows long distance road travel even for the LEAF (assuming the one port is working). Rivian is Rivian only for fast charging (l2 is open to anyone). Chargepoint is more a partner to who installs them and is what is Colorado is using for their (our) Charge corridors that is one or two chargers each with one port of each so you also often only have one CHAdeMO port or perhaps two (same for CCS though). EA is far from perfect, I am annoyed that I am hearing they turned CHAdeMO back down to 50kw (I need to try this myself to see if it is true) but they do help a lot for interstate travel.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
There are 2 in the US; Leaf and Outlander. (Plus a couple exotics)
In Europe there are a few more.
1. eNV200
2. Lexus Ux300e (recently launched)
3. Xpeng G3 (recently launched)
4. Mitu. Cross Phev (recently launched)
Leaf is still very prominent in Nissan advertising. Here is a new video from today.
https://youtu.be/k6G-NyLoT0Y
In Europe there are a few more.
1. eNV200
2. Lexus Ux300e (recently launched)
3. Xpeng G3 (recently launched)
4. Mitu. Cross Phev (recently launched)
Leaf is still very prominent in Nissan advertising. Here is a new video from today.
https://youtu.be/k6G-NyLoT0Y
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
DougWantsALeaf said:
Maybe so, but the intro frame for that video shows an Ariya, which is a CCS car.
As for the Outlander, it is a PHEV with a small battery - very few of them will ever use the CHAdeMO port and if they do, they won't be lingering for long.
Face it - the future in the US is CCS. Even Nissan knows this. EA is building a forward-thinking network. Just be glad that the CHAdeMO is present at every location.
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
I have, but still love the fight.
https://insideevs.com/features/497795/lexus-ux300e-reviewer-very-impressed-recommends/
https://insideevs.com/features/497795/lexus-ux300e-reviewer-very-impressed-recommends/
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
Very interesting. I am very curious to see how strongly Toyota/Lexus actually show up with their EV offerings.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
salyavin said:
You forgot Tesla and to say VW is "currently" selling CCS is a bit of a stretch...
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
If I work hard enough, I can find one thing wrong with all charging providers. Be is price, speed, location, reliability, etc.
But EA has a laundry list of issues. For those paying by the minute, you won't understand what I have to say but but March marks first DC charging since September and it was a blowout.
EA was 43 cents/kwh, EVgo was 26.65 cents/kwh.
Terms; EA would be 31 cents/kwh with a $4 non refundable monthly fee. Based on my limited use of EA, I would be around 52 cents/kwh had I selected that option.
EVgo; Still on COVID Care pricing which is 20 cents PER MINUTE which means my per kwh cost can be just about anything I want it to be (queue the "I paid over a dollar per kwh at EVgo" crowd) Just as I did before when my DC charging was free, I continue to do the same only charging on the peak current part of the charge curve.
As always, I stopped more for convenience than need and my sessions were limited to 9 minutes or less.
Hint; EVgo uses "whole minute" billing (probably like EA which doesn't seem to have a timer any more?) which means a charge of 9 minutes and 59 seconds is billed at 9 minutes. I am guessing you know what to do with that.
But EA has a laundry list of issues. For those paying by the minute, you won't understand what I have to say but but March marks first DC charging since September and it was a blowout.
EA was 43 cents/kwh, EVgo was 26.65 cents/kwh.
Terms; EA would be 31 cents/kwh with a $4 non refundable monthly fee. Based on my limited use of EA, I would be around 52 cents/kwh had I selected that option.
EVgo; Still on COVID Care pricing which is 20 cents PER MINUTE which means my per kwh cost can be just about anything I want it to be (queue the "I paid over a dollar per kwh at EVgo" crowd) Just as I did before when my DC charging was free, I continue to do the same only charging on the peak current part of the charge curve.
As always, I stopped more for convenience than need and my sessions were limited to 9 minutes or less.
Hint; EVgo uses "whole minute" billing (probably like EA which doesn't seem to have a timer any more?) which means a charge of 9 minutes and 59 seconds is billed at 9 minutes. I am guessing you know what to do with that.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
I'm not sure it is fair to compare EVgo "COVID care" prices to EA's normal prices. What would EVgo cost normally, without COVID care or a membership?
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
GetOffYourGas said:
Membership pricing is 25 cents/min or about 32 cents/kwh with a refundable 7.99 subscription cost.
Non member pricing is 29 cents a minute or about 38 cents/kwh.
So the BEST EA can do is meet the non membership price if I charge at least 58 minutes a month. They can't touch "my" membership price
salyavin
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
VW group includes e-tron and porche tachyon. Are you being deliberately obtuse?
EVGo is nice and all but really they just stick to a few populated areas so it is not useful for long distance driving. EA does cross contry corridors. I WELCOME EVGo to do the same. Inside my state some of the state charge corridor chargers are very expensive too some of us are talking to them some of the problem is demand charges from rural power companies. I agree better pricing is good but we need others like EVGo (or well anyone) to drop chargers down the interstate like EA does and let any car charge there rather than just one brand.
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
salyavin said:
Oh, how could I forget such huge sales numbers? I must be going obtusive!
Either way; My best option for charging is Puget Sound Power Charge and Go. 100 KW machines @ 25 cents/kwh.
Next time I will bolden my disclaimer that EVERY charging company has their faults.
salyavin
Well-known member
I have no doubt at all there are regional options that offer cheaper and more reliable charging. At the moment I only see this charge network that lets you drive across country with any car. Hopefully as time goes on some others will build open chargers cross country. There are 0 Puget Sound Power Charge and Go. in my state, they are not competing with EA nor is EVGo, I would love it if they would compete.
GetOffYourGas
Well-known member
DaveinOlyWA said:
https://insideevs.com/news/498333/volkswagen-id4-deliveries-us-march/
ok, "only" 474 units, but it was their first month in the US. This is just the beginning of what looks to be a large wave of CCS-equiped VW EVs. I don't see his use of the word "currently" as a stretch at all.
salyavin
Well-known member
and the e-tron and taycan as audi and porche are part of the VW group. Expensive cars sure but they sell no CHAdeMO.
cwerdna
Well-known member
VW group has sold cars w/CHAdeMO, just not in the US.salyavin said:
I've pointed to https://web.archive.org/web/20180806113721/https://www.volkswagen.co.jp/ja/models/egolf.html#item=3&gallery=150777597431680447 at https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=29840&p=562851&hilit=chademo+jp+egolf#p562851. I saw it myself at Tokyo Motor Show. Can post a pic I took myself when I was there sometime.
salyavin
Well-known member
We are talking about in relation to EA which someone is upset at one CHAdeMO port per site. We are not talking about Japan (where I lived) which is heavily populated with CHAdeMO. My point is about the US where CHAdeMO is on the way out and EA is the only charge network open to all that goes across country right now. Maybe someday EVGo will decide to put chargers between cities so one can go skiing, go to other states or otherwise leave the city. Maybe some day Rivian will build out their network and open it to other cars (albeit CCS only). Maybe some day Tesla will sell an adapter and allow one to use their network. Right now all I see is EA. EA supports CHAdeMO only to one port as CHAdeMO in the USA is on the way out.
