Close out 2012 or new spec. 2013

[TomT]

My thinking as well. My lease will be up in early 2015 at which point I'll have the option of exercising my Tesla reservation, going with a 2015 Nissan EV, or heading off in a different direction completely.

One big consideration will be if the 2015 Nissan EVs have TMS. If not, I'll likely drop them from my list.

I'm going to wait and order in Jan. and lease (24 mos.) in Feb. a 2013 because of the significant changes/improvements which will be worth the extra cost. Then for 2015, they will definitely have a much better pack with a different chemistry, then may lease a 2015.

 

[brg2290]

Please, whatever you do, don't purchase, lease instead if you can help it. I'm not entirely familiar with your situation, but you have obviously done a lot of homework, and listened to some great advice already. That said, EVs are evolving fairly quickly, and I believe that you would enjoy the car a lot more if you didn't own it outright. The 2015 or 2016 model year could be quite interesting.

Thanks for this input. I must admit that I'm yet to find the lease deal that would make me pull the trigger, while some of the purchase prices are tempting me. I've never leased a car before, but in this case a lease seems like the bridge to a possible later purchase. 2015 or 2016? Tesla Bluestar / Gen. III can't come soon enough!

 

[Herm]

Damn, really. Is this what is meant by decontented? Seems to me this should be standard across the board. Then again, will a heat pump really work for cabin heat / defrost when temps. are 20 degrees F or below?

I think it will at 20 deg, more marginal at 0 deg but if you can preheat on shore power then it all helps..

 

[edatoakrun]

Damn, really. Is this what is meant by decontented? Seems to me this should be standard across the board. Then again, will a heat pump really work for cabin heat / defrost when temps. are 20 degrees F or below?

I think it will at 20 deg, more marginal at 0 deg but if you can preheat on shore power then it all helps..

The heat pump will only increase total freeway-speed range by a few miles in optimum (warmer) conditions, will provide progressively lesser efficiency benefits as ambient temperatures decrease, and none at all at whatever (unknown) low temperature where the heater will need to default to resistance.

Any statement that the heat pump will not be available standard or as an option, on any trim level, is just a guess, at this point.

My own guess is that it will be standard across on all trim levels (assuming AC itself is not an option on the "S").

Adding the heat pump cycle to the AC probably does not require enough additional production costs to justify a heat pump delete, even on a "stripper" model.

 

[evnow]

Adding the heat pump cycle to the AC probably does not require enough additional production costs to justify a heat pump delete, even on a "stripper" model.

Sometimes manufacturers delete very useful items not to save money, but to force people to buy hugher trim levels.

But, my guess is all models get the same ac/heater/heatpump. That would reduce their software costs.

 

[nosuchthing]

I have never leased a car. The main reason, I drive twice the 12,000 miles lease allows. You paying through your ears after that. My Leaf has 30,000 miles in 18 months (no range loss, no bars missing).

And...I always buy the highest and the newest model. I would never skimp on 2012 and definitely buy 2013 -- the best model with all the trimmings. It pays at the end.

 

[edatoakrun]

Adding the heat pump cycle to the AC probably does not require enough additional production costs to justify a heat pump delete, even on a "stripper" model.

Sometimes manufacturers delete very useful items not to save money, but to force people to buy hugher trim levels...

Yes, but this would be idiotic, IMO, for a BEV manufacturer facing a "range anxiety" FUD campaign.

If the 2013 LEAF is available without the heat pump, it would probably have a lower (maybe by one to a few miles?) EPA range designation, since range testing includes cold weather driving with heater use, does it not?

Would Nissan really want to confuse the range question further, by having LEAFs carry multiple range ratings on the window stickers?

 

[evnow]

Would Nissan really want to confuse the range question further, by having LEAFs carry multiple range ratings on the window stickers?

Well, that can be seen as an upgrade. ICE models have different mpg ratings - and ofcourse, Model S comes in 3 variants.

People are used to multiple trims with different capabilities.

 

[LEAFfan]

I'm going to wait and order in Jan. and lease (24 mos.) in Feb. a 2013 because of the significant changes/improvements which will be worth the extra cost. Then for 2015, they will definitely have a much better pack with a different chemistry, then may lease a 2015.

LEAFfan,
Do you no longer drive a LEAF?

No, I still have and drive mine.

 

[TLeaf]

I'd say go for the 2012 (I hear heated seats and steering wheel are nice, sigh..) and use some of the savings to install a Level 2 charger at the in-laws. Though I could understand there might be reasons why the in-laws wouldn't want to do this (rented house, moving soon, etc.), I think the more houses in this country we get set up with L2 charging, the better. It's not like I normally spend more than half an hour at the local Fred Meyer or Walgreens, so L2 charging at 3.3kW or 6.6kW doesn't much matter to me either way, but I DO tend to spend a few hours when I go to visit a relative..

 

[TurboFroggy]

FYI there is absolutely no mention of a 6.6KW charger in any of the Leaf 2013 announcements. The charger will be combined into the same "unit" up front under the hood with the inverter. The onboard charger in this combo unit will still be 3.3KW. There will no longer be a hump in the back with the charger/brake-capacitor.

If anyone can find a link that shows that the 2013 Leaf will have a 6.6KW charger I would be happy to stand corrected.

However if you looking for something with an onboard charger greater than 3.3KW no Nissan products will meet this for at least the 2013 model year.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If anyone can find a link that shows that the 2013 Leaf will have a 6.6KW charger I would be happy to stand corrected.

However if you looking for something with an onboard charger greater than 3.3KW no Nissan products will meet this for at least the 2013 model year.

The recent announcement was for Japan market 2013 LEAF; the 6.6kW charger was spec'd out for USA market more than a year ago.

So, no, you won't find that in a website until such time as Nissan USA announces it. Which they won't do until they get the glut of 2012's sold and the 2013's won't make it to market until about Feb/Mar 2013.

 

[brg2290]

But what about in the event of a purchase? I've read that someone (Stevens Creek Nissan) offered / offers a reasonably priced extended warranty. Anyone have any experience with this?

Please, whatever you do, don't purchase, lease instead if you can help it. I'm not entirely familiar with your situation, but you have obviously done a lot of homework, and listened to some great advice already. That said, EVs are evolving fairly quickly, and I believe that you would enjoy the car a lot more if you didn't own it outright. The 2015 or 2016 model year could be quite interesting.

I'd say go for the lease now.

Ray

For those strongly advocating the lease, is it because you see used Leaf resale values as a bottomless pit? I received a good quote for a 24 month lease (0 down/230 per month, total cost $5520) where the residual was $21431. Yet, there are a few SV's out there that can be purchased right now, after the federal incentive, for $20000. If I'm paying $5520 to lease for two years, that means the value of a net cost $20000 SV would have to fall below $14480 after two years to make the lease a better deal. Are those who are strongly suggesting the lease doing so because they fear that the used Leaf market is just too unpredictable?

p.s. I know that if I lease, I could invest the $20000 not allocated to purchase, but with the paltry returns on safe investing and the volatility of riskier higher returns, I'm reluctant to let this sway the calculations too much as a plus in the lease category.

Gary

 

[ksnogas2112]

For those strongly advocating the lease, is it because you see used Leaf resale values as a bottomless pit? I received a good quote for a 24 month lease (0 down/230 per month, total cost $5520) where the residual was $21431. Yet, there are a few SV's out there that can be purchased right now, after the federal incentive, for $20000. If I'm paying $5520 to lease for two years, that means the value of a net cost $20000 SV would have to fall below $14480 after two years to make the lease a better deal. Are those who are strongly suggesting the lease doing so because they fear that the used Leaf market is just too unpredictable?

Gary

Lease $249/mo for 2-3 years
Buy $705/mo for 6 years (side note that monthly includes the extended warranty and interior protection would probably be $600 w/o that)

 

[LeafinThePark]

FYI there is absolutely no mention of a 6.6KW charger in any of the Leaf 2013 announcements. The charger will be combined into the same "unit" up front under the hood with the inverter. The onboard charger in this combo unit will still be 3.3KW. There will no longer be a hump in the back with the charger/brake-capacitor.

If anyone can find a link that shows that the 2013 Leaf will have a 6.6KW charger I would be happy to stand corrected.

This was posted this summer....

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1063015_nissan-leaf-news-electric-car-updates-coming-for-2012-2013" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Then, for 2013, the Leaf's onboard 240-Volt Level 2 charger will be upgraded to 6.6 kilowatts (from today's 3.3 kW), considerably reducing the time needed to recharge the lithium-ion battery.

Nissan's director of product planning, Mark Perry, had said in March that the charger would be upgraded "in a year or so."

Now Katherine Zachary, Nissan's senior manager of corporate communications, has confirmed that to mean for the 2013 model year.

And another from plug in cars with confirmation from Mark Perry

http://www.plugincars.com/2013-nissan-leaf-heating-system-66-kw-charger-119180.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When Nissan rolls out the 2013 version of the all-electric LEAF in late 2012, it will feature a new heating system—improving its range in cold weather—as well as an upgraded interior and (as previously reported) an optional 6.6-kW on-board charger. Nissan will unveil the upgraded 2013 LEAF in December when production of the electric hatchback begins in Smyrna, Tennessee. Mark Perry, director of product and advanced planning for Nissan Americas, discussed the enhancements in an interview with The Detroit News.

A google search reviews several other sources siting the same, including consumer reports and autotrader.

 

[brg2290]

Lease $249/mo for 2-3 years
Buy $705/mo for 6 years (side note that monthly includes the extended warranty and interior protection would probably be $600 w/o that)

On a purchase, I wouldn't be financing or making monthly payments. I'm more interested and concerned with total overall costs.

 

[planet4ever]

I'd say go for the lease now.
Ray

For those strongly advocating the lease, is it because you see used Leaf resale values as a bottomless pit? I received a good quote for a 24 month lease (0 down/230 per month, total cost $5520) where the residual was $21431. Yet, there are a few SV's out there that can be purchased right now, after the federal incentive, for $20000. If I'm paying $5520 to lease for two years, that means the value of a net cost $20000 SV would have to fall below $14480 after two years to make the lease a better deal.

A purchase price of $27,500 does sound good assuming you qualify for the full $7,500 federal tax credit. I'm in the camp that says a majority of people should probably lease right now, but it does depend on where you live, how much you drive, and how long you want to keep the car. In this particular case I made the statement you quoted because, as I admitted a few posts later, I got two threads confused. I thought the OP was choosing between lease now or lease later.

My own reasons for leasing a year and a half ago were much lower monthly payments (because, unlike you, I couldn't pay cash) and the feeling that the electric car market would be expanding and changing very rapidly between 2011 and 2014. I expected to have quite a few choices in 2014, a number of them likely better than a 2011 LEAF. The lease was a "can't lose" option for me, in that I could buy it and then sell it myself if the going price was higher in 2014 than my residual, while if it was lower I could tell Nissan thanks for the ride, and bye.

Of course at that time we had no idea of the hot climate battery problems. I do now think it likely that

• Nissan will solve the battery problem in 2014 or 2015 models.
• It will not be practical to apply the solution to 2011-2013 models.
• Used LEAFs from those years will have a deeply depressed value because of battery concerns.

Ray

 

[brg2290]

Of course at that time we had no idea of the hot climate battery problems. I do now think it likely that

• Nissan will solve the battery problem in 2014 or 2015 models.
• It will not be practical to apply the solution to 2011-2013 models.
• Used LEAFs from those years will have a deeply depressed value because of battery concerns.

Ray

Hello Ray. Thanks for responding. I think all three of your thoughts are very valid. I'm pretty sure I will qualify for the full tax credit. I live in Eastern Washington state (no state sales tax on EV's!, relatively EV friendly climate). I'm going to guess my miles driven will be less than a standard lease limitation of 12,000 per year.how longx do I intend to keep the car? I agree with you that there likely will be some improved choices by 2014/2015. My best guess is that I would be looking to upgrade somewhere in this timeframe.

Gary

 

[evnow]

FWIW, I've decided to wait until MY13 before making a decision. I'm paying $350 a month now on lease. Plan is to return this car and get a new one - either MY12 or MY13.

I'm fairly confident that MY13 lease won't be very bad compared to MY12. The reason being, unless the lease is good, the sales will go back below 1,000. That is not something Nissan would want.

 

[FormerFF]

I'd say go for the lease now.
Ray

For those strongly advocating the lease, is it because you see used Leaf resale values as a bottomless pit? I received a good quote for a 24 month lease (0 down/230 per month, total cost $5520) where the residual was $21431. Yet, there are a few SV's out there that can be purchased right now, after the federal incentive, for $20000. If I'm paying $5520 to lease for two years, that means the value of a net cost $20000 SV would have to fall below $14480 after two years to make the lease a better deal.

A purchase price of $27,500 does sound good assuming you qualify for the full $7,500 federal tax credit. I'm in the camp that says a majority of people should probably lease right now, but it does depend on where you live, how much you drive, and how long you want to keep the car. In this particular case I made the statement you quoted because, as I admitted a few posts later, I got two threads confused. I thought the OP was choosing between lease now or lease later.

My own reasons for leasing a year and a half ago were much lower monthly payments (because, unlike you, I couldn't pay cash) and the feeling that the electric car market would be expanding and changing very rapidly between 2011 and 2014. I expected to have quite a few choices in 2014, a number of them likely better than a 2011 LEAF. The lease was a "can't lose" option for me, in that I could buy it and then sell it myself if the going price was higher in 2014 than my residual, while if it was lower I could tell Nissan thanks for the ride, and bye.

Of course at that time we had no idea of the hot climate battery problems. I do now think it likely that

• Nissan will solve the battery problem in 2014 or 2015 models.
• It will not be practical to apply the solution to 2011-2013 models.
• Used LEAFs from those years will have a deeply depressed value because of battery concerns.

Ray

I hope used 2011-2013's are cheap in a few years. I have a daughter that will be turning 16 in 2016, and I think an early LEAF would make a brilliant teenager car.