Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

[jspearman]

:| Side comment - I'd really appreciate a J1772 charger at Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall. They've got a pair of Tesla HPC chargers (WTF?!? - 'xcuse the language).

Totally agree about needing chargers at Scottsdale Fashion Square. The reason why they have the Tesla chargers is because of the Tesla store that's going in the mall. I haven't seen the chargers...will check it out.

Sometimes I go to the PV mall, only because of the two chargers at the library behind the mall. Biltmore has chargers, but I live next to there, so not much of a help.

Sorry to hear about the lost bar at 8,500 miles. If corporations are people, I want to beat Nissan with a rubber hose.

 

[JRP3]

We're about 2 steps away from resorting to driving the car through the front door of Mark Perry's office at full speed.

If you have enough range left He'll probably hand you a 5 star battery report since the car still has enough power to run him down. :mrgreen:

 

[Stoaty]

I lost my first battery capacity bar a week ago (about August 26, 2012). I noticed it after one of my infrequent 100% charges.
SOC bargraph now shows higher than battery capacity bargraph after 100% charge. Hmmm....

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we just need:
--case number from Nissan
--date of report to Nissan
--date of manufacture (drivers door frame)

 

[brettcgb]

Side comment - I'd really appreciate a J1772 charger at Scottsdale Fashion Square Mall. They've got a pair of Tesla HPC chargers (WTF?!? - 'xcuse the language).

Totally agree about needing chargers at Scottsdale Fashion Square. The reason why they have the Tesla chargers is because of the Tesla store that's going in the mall. I haven't seen the chargers...will check it out.
....
Sorry to hear about the lost bar at 8,500 miles. ....

I'm bummed about the lost bar... I'll have to find another bar to down my problems at...

Plugshare has location and photos of the Tesla station. They are located straight off the up ramp on the 3rd level. You can see them from the level below if there are no cars going up/down. There were spaces to the right (in the corner) that were blocked off, with some conduit pipe sitting to one side - I was hopeful we'd be seeing J1772's there soon, but the conduit was gone the last time I looked.

I have on occasion contacted mall management about installing chargers. The last word I got a couple months ago was that "we're figuring it out", whatever that means.

Perhaps if everyone who goes there pings management the next time they visit, they might get the idea that there is real demand for J1772 chargers.

 

[KeithDelonga]

We're about 2 steps away from resorting to driving the car through the front door of Mark Perry's office at full speed.

If you have enough range left He'll probably hand you a 5 star battery report since the car still has enough power to run him down. :mrgreen:

This has been entertaining enough that you have the attention of VWVortex. Just to let you know that this matter is getting a wider and wider following. Not that all the writeups in different articles haven't already shed plenty of light on it.

The thread in VWVortex:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...ers-claim-AZ-desert-heat-saps-batteries/page6

 

[Volusiano]

So how long has it been since the Casa Grande LEAFs were returned to owners? A month yet? How long do you think is a reasonable time frame from Nissan to come back with an update on their findings? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? a year?

I would think 1 month would be reasonable enough time for them to provide a conclusion of their finding, don't you?

 

[Stoaty]

I would think 1 month would be reasonable enough time for them to provide a conclusion of their finding, don't you?

Yes, I think that is reasonable. I wouldn't expect them to come up with a solution in that short a time, but a timely report on their findings--which was promised in the letter--would win some good PR points.

 

[GaslessInSeattle]

honestly at this point, we can only hope that Nissan was not quite ready with their fandangled batteries so they released the MY2011-12 with old super cheap chemistry and that MY2013 will include the batteries they spent $4B on, with substantially increased capacity and extreme weather resistance. If by some wild fluke this is the case, don't expect to hear anything until they officially roll out MY2013 and if we are all very lucky, there will be a full recall and all of our batteries will be replaced FOC... I can dream... I don't know which is more outlandish, that they'd let the Leaf go extinct or that we are going to be pleasantly surprised in a few months with brand new batteries.

So how long has it been since the Casa Grande LEAFs were returned to owners? A month yet? How long do you think is a reasonable time frame from Nissan to come back with an update on their findings? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? a year?

I would think 1 month would be reasonable enough time for them to provide a conclusion of their finding, don't you?

 

[Stoaty]

Looks like a couple more Leafs bit the dust with a loss of 3 capacity bars and 2 capacity bars respectively (captured from Facebook):

 

[Herm]

Stoaty, you have a link for that thread?

 

[DaveEV]

Stoaty, you have a link for that thread?

Kristy Bryant -> Nissan LEAF
Look- Nissan "Fixed" my car (NOT)

 

[LeafyEV]

Long time visitor, first time member...Sorry to say joined for a sad occasion:

Lost First Bar this morning, 16920 miles, 16 months ownership. Been getting the dreaded 9 bar 80% charge for about 60 days.

Garaged, always Timered to 80%, a few 100% here and there...No QC port, so, No QC. Temps 5-6. Seen 7 for short periods on 2 occasions, last summer and once so far this summer.

Hilly terrain, some freeway, some streets. Lifetime a 4.4 mi/kwh performer...so yeah this sucks.

Called and got a case number, they seem to know the drill! Nissan CS was very concerned about the GOM range (who cares!) and also if I lose another bar. They tried to be sincere about it, but they're just middle-men sitting between us and those who know whats up/what they intend to do about it!

Still love the car and not spending $4.00 a gallon to use our atmosphere as a toilet. But this situation is, well...a bummer.

 

[cwerdna]

Called and got a case number, they seem to know the drill! Nissan CS was very concerned about the GOM range (who cares!) and also if I lose another bar. They tried to be sincere about it, but they're just middle-men sitting between us and those who know whats up/what they intend to do about it!

I wonder if those CS reps have actually driven a Leaf for a long period of time (e.g. for a few days or more), running down to LBW or lower to realize how bad the GOM is and whether they know about the gid meters here...

 

[Stoaty]

Long time visitor, first time member...Sorry to say joined for a sad occasion:

Lost First Bar this morning, 16920 miles, 16 months ownership. Been getting the dreaded 9 bar 80% charge for about 60 days.

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. This does not bode well for others in California who don't live by the Coast. Thanks for adding your info to the Wiki.

 

[mwalsh]

honestly at this point, we can only hope that Nissan was not quite ready with their fandangled batteries so they released the MY2011-12 with old super cheap chemistry and that MY2013 will include the batteries they spent $4B on, with substantially increased capacity and extreme weather resistance. If by some wild fluke this is the case, don't expect to hear anything until they officially roll out MY2013 and if we are all very lucky, there will be a full recall and all of our batteries will be replaced FOC... I can dream... I don't know which is more outlandish, that they'd let the Leaf go extinct or that we are going to be pleasantly surprised in a few months with brand new batteries.

+1.

Range anxiety that faded pretty quickly last year has given way to degradation anxiety this year. I still LOVE my car, and wouldn't want to give it up, but I can no longer recommend the LEAF to anyone with the enthusiasm I once had, not without knowing what's going on. We HAVE to know what's happening with these packs in AZ and HAVE to know, in realistic terms, what we can expect in other parts of the country over the long term. It's clear that the "80% remaining after X years" is going to be complete hogwash unless the gradual slide in apparent capacity we've seen this year is either erroneous or all of a sudden ceases or slows substantially.

 

[brettcgb]

I lost my first battery capacity bar a week ago (about August 26, 2012). I noticed it after one of my infrequent 100% charges.
SOC bargraph now shows higher than battery capacity bargraph after 100% charge. Hmmm....

Sorry to hear about your bar loss. To complete your Wiki entry, we just need:
--case number from Nissan
--date of report to Nissan
--date of manufacture (drivers door frame)

case number - 9256264
date of report - 8/28/2012
date of manufacture - 9/11 (memorable...)

 

[brettcgb]

I would think 1 month would be reasonable enough time for them to provide a conclusion of their finding, don't you?

Yes, I think that is reasonable. I wouldn't expect them to come up with a solution in that short a time, but a timely report on their findings--which was promised in the letter--would win some good PR points.

Perhaps not. I can't see any situation where confirmation of bad news was ever a good thing for the vendor. They would have to offer something in exchange to not lose face.

 

[RegGuheert]

case number - 9256264
date of report - 8/28/2012
date of manufacture - 9/11 (memorable...)

I'm sorry to hear about your bar loss, Brett.

Am I correct in saying that this is only the second report of a 2012 LEAF losing a bar?

Finally, Brett, can you please update your LEAF VIN number in the User Control Panel? 5143 is too low for a 2012 LEAF. I'm thinking you must have entered that at some point in the past when the forum only permitted 4 digits. Perhaps it is 15143? TIA!

 

[brettcgb]

honestly at this point, we can only hope that Nissan was not quite ready with their fandangled batteries so they released the MY2011-12 with old super cheap chemistry and that MY2013 will include the batteries they spent $4B on, with substantially increased capacity and extreme weather resistance. If by some wild fluke this is the case, don't expect to hear anything until they officially roll out MY2013 and if we are all very lucky, there will be a full recall and all of our batteries will be replaced FOC... I can dream... I don't know which is more outlandish, that they'd let the Leaf go extinct or that we are going to be pleasantly surprised in a few months with brand new batteries.

I think we'll see something interesting within a year of 2011's returning from lease. If Nissan truly has a problem with the batteries, they're going to end up with a bunch of very nice cars that can't be driven more than about 45 miles (wild a$$ guess), might not be DCFC capable, and can't be resold to recover the remaining finance costs. A new battery would cost about what they could sell the car for.

At that point, they would sell at a great loss as-is, replace the battery with a current fandangled battery and sell at a higher price (but still at a greater loss), or scrap the car and pay disposal/recycle costs for the battery. I don't see how they could turn this around

 

[Nubo]

So how long has it been since the Casa Grande LEAFs were returned to owners? A month yet? How long do you think is a reasonable time frame from Nissan to come back with an update on their findings? 1 month? 2 months? 3 months? a year?

I would think 1 month would be reasonable enough time for them to provide a conclusion of their finding, don't you?

Knowing what's wrong with the batteries is one thing. Coming up with a remedy is the larger half of the problem, even if they do understand the alternatives from a technical point of view. They may not want to discuss the former without a firm plan for the latter. The problem is they may not have the luxury of time.

I'll be interested to see the Aug sales figures. The general public is not EV-aware, much less about the LEAF's battery pack. But those even remotely in the market, are. Most people don't make this type of purchase without some internet checking. For Nissan's sake and the sake of the new EV market, I hope they are closer to a resolution than it seems.