2013 LEAF Pricing and Features-S:28,800 SV:31,820 SL:34,840

[Spies]

It doesn't quite beat everyone in MPGe, because your link didn't include the FitEV for some reason:
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/noframes/33265.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The previous link was for 2012 model years this one points to the 2013 model years: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfuel/EV2013.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[evnow]

MPGe can raise because of 6kW charger too.

 

[Herm]

But the MPGe numbers (apparently) are the same with the S, using the 3.3 kW charger.

Its possible the EPA lists the numbers with the configuration that they think will be the most popular, the 6.6kW charger

I hate MPGe numbers, they are useless at telling you anything of importance to us, basically all they allow you to do is compare the charging cost of two different electric cars, and we know charging cost is dirt low anyways. They are only useful comparing fueling costs to gasoline powered cars. They wont tell you anything about range and that is what we care about.

Note that the new numbers are from using the new EPA 5 cycle test, the old numbers were from the classic 2 cycle test. The new test is more realistic since it includes a high speed hwy cycle, and an AC cycle plus something else.

 

[evnow]

Note that the new numbers are from using the new EPA 5 cycle test, the old numbers were from the classic 2 cycle test. The new test is more realistic since it includes a high speed hwy cycle, and an AC cycle plus something else.

Yes - I've said this multiple times before. If we just take 2011/12 Leaf and run it through 5 cycle test, it will get a better EPA range and MPGe. So, it doesn't mean much for "real world" range.

 

[Spies]

I hate MPGe numbers, they are useless at telling you anything of importance to us, basically all they allow you to do is compare the charging cost of two different electric cars, and we know charging cost is dirt low anyways. They are only useful comparing fueling costs to gasoline powered cars. They wont tell you anything about range and that is what we care about.

I hate MPGe too but at least by knowing that EPA uses 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kw-hr and the driving range is on the details page of each vehicle one can do the math to figure out most things. I still think there should be two EPA efficiency listings for the 2013 Leaf though, one for each charger.

 

[mnsweeps]

I hate MPGe numbers, they are useless at telling you anything of importance to us, basically all they allow you to do is compare the charging cost of two different electric cars, and we know charging cost is dirt low anyways. They are only useful comparing fueling costs to gasoline powered cars. They wont tell you anything about range and that is what we care about.

I hate MPGe too but at least by knowing that EPA uses 1 gallon of gasoline=33.7 kw-hr and the driving range is on the details page of each vehicle one can do the math to figure out most things. I still think there should be two EPA efficiency listings for the 2013 Leaf though, one for each charger.

I must be really dumb here... How does the charger really affect the MPGe? Doesn't the type of charger affect only the charging times?

 

[TomT]

Many of the charging devices such as the cooling pumps and electronics draw the same at any charge rate. Thus, as the charge rate goes up, their relative percentage draw drops and the efficiency goes up.

I must be really dumb here... How does the charger really affect the MPGe? Doesn't the type of charger affect only the charging times?

 

[adric22]

Yeah.. I just don't see how the chargers could have any effect on "Miles per Kilowatt-hour." That is, assuming you are taking about the kilowatt-hours used by the car directly from the battery while driving. Now if you are talking kilowatt-hours from the wall, then I could see how the charger could affect it. But if that is the case, you would think there would be a different MPGe number for a Leaf being charged via Chademo or J1772.

 

[planet4ever]

Yeah.. I just don't see how the chargers could have any effect on "Miles per Kilowatt-hour." That is, assuming you are taking about the kilowatt-hours used by the car directly from the battery while driving. Now if you are talking kilowatt-hours from the wall, then I could see how the charger could affect it. But if that is the case, you would think there would be a different MPGe number for a Leaf being charged via Chademo or J1772.

But I'm sure I've read here that MPGe is calculated from the wall, right? Presumably it is measured using a "standard" 30A J1772 EVSE.

Ray

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Yeah.. I just don't see how the chargers could have any effect on "Miles per Kilowatt-hour." That is, assuming you are taking about the kilowatt-hours used by the car directly from the battery while driving. Now if you are talking kilowatt-hours from the wall, then I could see how the charger could affect it. But if that is the case, you would think there would be a different MPGe number for a Leaf being charged via Chademo or J1772.

But I'm sure I've read here that MPGe is calculated from the wall, right? Presumably it is measured using a "standard" 30A J1772 EVSE.

Ray

That's exactly what MPGe is; it's measured from the wall. The thing with CHAdeMO, is that the charger is external to the car. Therefore, each brand of charger could have a different efficiency. It's not fair to count that as part of the car. It has to use the on-board charger, which is fed through the J1772 port.

 

[leafedbehind]

Yes - I've said this multiple times before. If we just take 2011/12 Leaf and run it through 5 cycle test, it will get a better EPA range and MPGe. So, it doesn't mean much for "real world" range.

I agree -- this is likely why the Fit EV has a higher range rating (82 vs. 73 for the LEAF), even though in my experience, the Fit EV's range is, at best, just about equal to that of the LEAF. You can only compare EPA ratings of cars that were measured using the same version of the standard.

 

[edatoakrun]

Note that the new numbers are from using the new EPA 5 cycle test, the old numbers were from the classic 2 cycle test. The new test is more realistic since it includes a high speed hwy cycle, and an AC cycle plus something else.

Yes - I've said this multiple times before. If we just take 2011/12 Leaf and run it through 5 cycle test, it will get a better EPA range and MPGe. So, it doesn't mean much for "real world" range.

The 2013 Japan market LEAF reportedly achieved about an 14% range increase from 2012 to 2013 on a single (very) low-speed test.

The US market LEAF now seems to have virtually all the same efficiency upgrades as the 2013 JML.

Why would you not expect significantly improved "real world" efficiency in the 2013 AML?

Of course, any percentage of efficiency improvement will be greater at lower speeds, which is reflected in the 2013 LEAFs increase to the 130/102 city/hwy MPGe* rating.

 

[evnow]

The 2013 Japan market LEAF reportedly achieved about an 14% range increase from 2012 to 2013 on a single (very) low-speed test.

The US market LEAF now seems to have virtually all the same efficiency upgrades as the 2013 JML.

Why would you not expect significantly improved "real world" efficiency in the 2013 AML?

Of course, any percentage of efficiency improvement will be greater at lower speeds, which is reflected in the 2013 LEAFs increase to the 130/102 city/hwy MPGe* rating.

The weight reduction of MY13 would give better slow speed rating - probably not useful in "real world range" in the US. People who worry about the range in US are usually driving at freeway speed.

 

[edatoakrun]

The 2013 Japan market LEAF reportedly achieved about an 14% range increase from 2012 to 2013 on a single (very) low-speed test.

The US market LEAF now seems to have virtually all the same efficiency upgrades as the 2013 JML.

Why would you not expect significantly improved "real world" efficiency in the 2013 AML?

Of course, any percentage of efficiency improvement will be greater at lower speeds, which is reflected in the 2013 LEAFs increase to the 130/102 city/hwy MPGe* rating.

The weight reduction of MY13 would give better slow speed rating - probably not useful in "real world range" in the US. People who worry about the range in US are usually driving at freeway speed.

According to the specs here:

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 2013 US MY LEAF S is 3,291 lbs, and is only 49 lbs lighter than the 2013 SV and SL.

Looks like most of the Japan MY 2013 LEAF weight loss was lost in translation...

 

[evnow]

According to the specs here:

http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/versions-specs/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The 2013 US MY LEAF S is 3,291 lbs, and is only 39 lbs lighter than the 2013 SV and SL.

Looks like most of the Japan MY 2013 LEAF weight loss was lost in translation...

Ok - so, we should then not even worry about Japanese cycle range increases.

Purely from US EPA ratings - the increases can't be easily translated to "real world" range increases.

 

[mnsweeps]

Folks my company participates in the VPP program so wondering if this is a good price on the 2013 SV model.

$29,810 invoice - $1000 VPP program = $28,810 - $7500 Fed tax rebate - $2500 CA rebate = $18,810 + plus all the BS tax and fees on original purchase price.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Folks my company participates in the VPP program so wondering if this is a good price on the 2013 SV model.

$29,810 invoice - $1000 VPP program = $28,810 - $7500 Fed tax rebate - $2500 CA rebate = $18,810 + plus all the BS tax and fees on original purchase price.

on an "SV?" that is a GREAT price! take my advice, if it doesnt have it, pay the extra money for the quick charge

 

[mnsweeps]

Folks my company participates in the VPP program so wondering if this is a good price on the 2013 SV model.

$29,810 invoice - $1000 VPP program = $28,810 - $7500 Fed tax rebate - $2500 CA rebate = $18,810 + plus all the BS tax and fees on original purchase price.

on an "SV?" that is a GREAT price! take my advice, if it doesnt have it, pay the extra money for the quick charge

Yes on the SV model. and it has the quick charger.

 

[jimmyz80]

Folks my company participates in the VPP program so wondering if this is a good price on the 2013 SV model.

$29,810 invoice - $1000 VPP program = $28,810 - $7500 Fed tax rebate - $2500 CA rebate = $18,810 + plus all the BS tax and fees on original purchase price.

on an "SV?" that is a GREAT price! take my advice, if it doesnt have it, pay the extra money for the quick charge

Yes on the SV model. and it has the quick charger.

The invoice price of $29,810 is for the base SV model, without the QC/LED package. Are they giving you that package for free?

 

[mnsweeps]

The invoice price of $29,810 is for the base SV model, without the QC/LED package. Are they giving you that package for free?

Sorry guys,I completely missed the original question. No the price does not include the QC port / LED package. That brings up a question on how many QC stations are in the LA area anyway? Just having a QC port doesn't mean anything.. Thanks