Gen 1 GM Volt Plug-In Hybrid (2011-2015)

Ready2plugin said:

I just found out my brother is getting a Volt. He gets a company car since he does sales for GE Medical. He is not the only one, according to him, GE has an order in for 25,000! Maybe hard for the LEAF to keep up with the Volt this year, at least in fleet sales.

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You really think so? I just read that the Prius v ... only released in October last year, outsold Volt's entire 2011 production.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius-v/2012/toyota-prius-v-outsells-chevrolet-volt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Think I'll keep track of that.

hill said:

Ready2plugin said:

I just found out my brother is getting a Volt. He gets a company car since he does sales for GE Medical. He is not the only one, according to him, GE has an order in for 25,000! Maybe hard for the LEAF to keep up with the Volt this year, at least in fleet sales.

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You really think so? I just read that the Prius v ... only released in October last year, outsold Volt's entire 2011 production.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius-v/2012/toyota-prius-v-outsells-chevrolet-volt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Think I'll keep track of that.

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Geez, why do they lump all of these together!! Do people REALLY cross shop a non plug-in with a regular hybrid ? At the very least post the facts about eventual cost of ownership -- i.e., you get fed tax credits (and possibly some state level ones) with plug-in's, straight hybrids not; you'll probably need a home charging station with a plug-in, hybrids not; etc. On the same note, it will be interesting to see what the cost difference will be on the upcoming Ford C-Max as one will be a plug-in and one simply a hybrid in the states --

I'm encouraged over the fleet announcement; wouldn't be surprised to see the Mitsu 'i' going to fleets in CA as they are a cheap EV alternative, especially for localized travel from a central charging hub. I would think fleet sales would be a bit better than pure rental sales but time will tell --

hill said:

Ready2plugin said:

I just found out my brother is getting a Volt. He gets a company car since he does sales for GE Medical. He is not the only one, according to him, GE has an order in for 25,000! Maybe hard for the LEAF to keep up with the Volt this year, at least in fleet sales.

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You really think so? I just read that the Prius v ... only released in October last year, outsold Volt's entire 2011 production.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius-v/2012/toyota-prius-v-outsells-chevrolet-volt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Think I'll keep track of that.

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And the Volt was not available only in limited markets until November when it finally available nation wide . The Leaf too was on a slow roll out.


New technology, especially at a high price, takes a while to catch on.
In comparison here are the hybrids that the Leaf/Volt outsold in 2011, despite not being on sale in limited regions and a slow roll out. So yes the may not have displaced the market leader.. but then its a new car in a niche market and Both Leaf and Volt already doing better than many established models -- overall The Leaf was the #9 most sold Hyrbid/EV, the Volt #11.

Here are the cars the number sold for the Leaf and below.

2011 Hybrid/EV sales
# Name
9674 Nissan LEAF #9
9241 Toyota Camry Hybrid #10
7671 Chevrolet Volt #11
5739 Linc. MKZ #12
4549 Toy. Highlander
3236 Altima
2864 Lexus HS 250h
1571 Porsche Caynne
1001 Chevy Silverado
819 Cad. Escalade
598 GMC Yukon
519 Chevy Tahoe
390 VW Touareg Hybrid
388 Smart ED EV
378 Infiniti M35h
338 BMW Hybrid
309 Mercedes S400HV
484 Mazda Tribute
282 Lexus GS450h
164 GMC Sierra
123 Buick Regal
84 Lexus LS600hL
80 Mitsubishi i MEV
52 Porsche Panamera S
43 BMW X6 3
24 Chevy Malibu Hybrid

Data from http://www.hybridcars.com/news/december-2011-dashboard-sales-still-climbing-35093.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

redLEAF said:

hill said:

I just read that the Prius v ... only released in October last year, outsold Volt's entire 2011 production.
http://www.insideline.com/toyota/prius-v/2012/toyota-prius-v-outsells-chevrolet-volt.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Geez, why do they lump all of these together!! Do people REALLY cross shop a non plug-in with a regular hybrid ?

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No kidding - the P-v is a much cheaper car (even after tax credits) and in a much more usable package - seats 5 easily with room for their gear and gets ~40 mpg - same as the Volt.

Put the Volt drivetrain into the P-v body and you'd have a winner. Heck - I'd love a P-v with just 20 miles of real world EV range (even blended like the PiP). For some reason, I can't get excited about the PiP with its 11 mi EV range and 27 kW power limit in EV mode. 27 kW is often the bare minimum of power needed around here - if you need to accelerate up a hill 40-50kW is necessary.

Now we know that a gun rack will fit in a Volt.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK0ieX9mHr4[/youtube]

Yep, I'd buy one tomorrow if it existed and it wasn't any more expensive! What I want is a stylish, well equipped, small Crossover SUV, about the size of the 2013 Ford Escape or 2012 Hyundai Tuscon, two wheel drive, a minimum of 20 miles of real-world EV range, and pure electric operation (not blended) up to at least 65 mph...

drees said:

Put the Volt drivetrain into the P-v body and you'd have a winner. Heck - I'd love a P-v with just 20 miles of real world EV range (even blended like the PiP). For some reason, I can't get excited about the PiP with its 11 mi EV range and 27 kW power limit in EV mode. 27 kW is often the bare minimum of power needed around here - if you need to accelerate up a hill 40-50kW is necessary.

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TomT said:

Yep, I'd buy one tomorrow if it existed and it wasn't any more expensive!

drees said:

Put the Volt drivetrain into the P-v body and you'd have a winner. Heck - I'd love a P-v with just 20 miles of real world EV range (even blended like the PiP). For some reason, I can't get excited about the PiP with its 11 mi EV range and 27 kW power limit in EV mode. 27 kW is often the bare minimum of power needed around here - if you need to accelerate up a hill 40-50kW is necessary.

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ISTM that a smallish PHEV wagon is a natural fit with Subaru's customer demographic (I also think 20 mile AER is the sweet spot, preferably not blended but done like Honda with the Accord), although adding AWD would make things a bit crowded. They used to be working on them, but I haven't read anything for some years. Anyone heard any rumors?

Pretty close to being 'simple' math for the masses. 10000/20




But the ultimate in simple math. 586.5 miles using 1 gal of gas.

"scottf200" Pretty close to being 'simple' math for the masses. 10000/20...

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20 gallons of gas, and how many kWh?

DrInnovation said:

And the Volt was not available only in limited markets until November when it finally available nation wide . The Leaf too was on a slow roll out.


New technology, especially at a high price, takes a while to catch on.
In comparison here are the hybrids that the Leaf/Volt outsold in 2011, despite not being on sale in limited regions and a slow roll out. So yes the may not have displaced the market leader.. but then its a new car in a niche market and Both Leaf and Volt already doing better than many established models -- overall The Leaf was the #9 most sold Hyrbid/EV, the Volt #11.

Here are the cars the number sold for the Leaf and below.

2011 Hybrid/EV sales
# Name
9674 Nissan LEAF #9
9241 Toyota Camry Hybrid #10
7671 Chevrolet Volt #11
5739 Linc. MKZ #12
4549 Toy. Highlander
3236 Altima
2864 Lexus HS 250h
1571 Porsche Caynne
1001 Chevy Silverado
819 Cad. Escalade
598 GMC Yukon
519 Chevy Tahoe
390 VW Touareg Hybrid
388 Smart ED EV
378 Infiniti M35h
338 BMW Hybrid
309 Mercedes S400HV
484 Mazda Tribute
282 Lexus GS450h
164 GMC Sierra
123 Buick Regal
84 Lexus LS600hL
80 Mitsubishi i MEV
52 Porsche Panamera S
43 BMW X6 3
24 Chevy Malibu Hybrid

Data from http://www.hybridcars.com/news/december-2011-dashboard-sales-still-climbing-35093.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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nice partial list. but none of those were even supposed to sell more. i thought the LS 600 was order only?

no MiEV, Ford Focus (yes they sold a reported 5 units) no Tesla... list should be double what we see here

Scottf2000; nice stats but my Prius BLEW YOUR DOORS OFF!! iT only used 12 gallons of gas

what?? i am not telling you enough information to dispute my claim?

weeeell, now you know how we feel

DaveinOlyWA said:

2011 Hybrid/EV sales
# Name
9674 Nissan LEAF #9
nice partial list. but none of those were even supposed to sell more. i thought the LS 600 was order only?

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Tesla sold all that they could make prior to the Lotus chassis going away. As for the Lexus600h - it's over $100K too. Logic dictates that more money you have, the smaller your wealth group is - and thus, the smaller the buying power group is. From Volt sales (especially now that GM claims they can make 60,000 a year) now - it appears that the dramatic drop off happens somewhere above $35,000. The majority of folks only have enough dough to buy the cheeper Cheyy Cruz. And the middle class is not gettng bigger. It's getting smaller. Any you already know which way its migrating.

DaveinOlyWA said:

weeeell, now you know how we feel

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You'd have a point but for the fact there is a web site that lists 500 people, some with similar stats (pulled from the car), and the fact that we know the Prius can't do that.

Since we know at least one person has driven the Volt 16,000 miles and has gotten an MPG number of 1542, which is 30x better than your Prius, what's so unbelievable about his claim? Arguing with data from 3 million miles of real world driving seems strained. (Admittedly getting 1542 MPG when driving 16,000 miles in a year seems tough to do, but somebody has done it).

DaveinOlyWA said:

Scottf2000; nice stats but my Prius BLEW YOUR DOORS OFF!! iT only used 12 gallons of gas
what?? i am not telling you enough information to dispute my claim?
weeeell, now you know how we feel

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Dave, you have been pretty cool to me around these parts so I know you are just giving me a little hard time ... so no worries.

How many miles did you go on those 12 gallons ... then we can at least calculate MPGs which is what the "masses" love to hear. <grin>

This being an EV forum I figured you could just guys take your LEAF figures on kWh per 100 miles and do the math. Or take the Volt EPA numbers.

Of course, the "masses" want to know how much my electric bill has gone up. Honest truth is my electric bill has gone down!! As well on average over the past 10 months I'm using less kWh per month than I did BEFORE I owned the Volt. So net net my Volt doesn't use any kWh. Or looking at it another way I drive for free because it cost me $1 to charge but I'm saving over $30/month than before I bought the Volt. Either way it is surprising to my friends.

All this seems odd I know. But when you become an EV owner you start thinking differently about your electricity usage. The factors that lead to the above is that we are a little more conscientious in our electrical usage, I switched all of our main lighting areas to use CFLs. I installed a new single CFL overhead/arm lamp in my office to use instead of the 4 bulb ceiling fan. Plus I changed to an hourly rate plan and told the Volt to charge at 'off peak' with it's built in scheduler.

that is not any way to make believers. I bought a volt and use less gas than before and I also use less electricity. This Volt is a miracle!!

You know better than that. I wish people would just stick to the facts. Both cars are great. Buy the one you want. If you don't like either and want to drive a Hummer...go for it.

palmermd said:

that is not any way to make believers. I bought a volt and use less gas than before and I also use less electricity. This Volt is a miracle!!
You know better than that. I wish people would just stick to the facts. Both cars are great. Buy the one you want. If you don't like either and want to drive a Hummer...go for it.

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I'm good with either car that fits peoples needs/life_styles/hobbies.

My red text in the original picture was my message to the normal "masses" I'm trying to make a believer.
a) I told them it cost me less than $1 a day to charge,
b) I'm not going to break their grid and cause them heartache. KISS.

My follow up information was because I was poke-n-prodded. I have a TED 5000 but it is on my whole house. The next best thing was comparison to my before/after the Volt kWh usage but with the footnotes of why it seems dramatic.

ScottF2000; well you know me well enough from here and Priuschat that i am kidding. i am a Volt fan. i think its a great car. just does not suit me as well as my Leaf does. i also know a guy locally (us EV'ers stick together!) who has a Volt (i posted his car charging here a while back) since like October or so and is still on his original tank of gas...ya, thats right, has never been to a gas station one single time.

he is lucky enough to work less than 3 blocks from Olympic Gateway Park which has 8 charging stations that are rarely used. in fact, i swing by there all the time and only have seen one other car plugged in there besides his and mine.

but on your post, leaving information out make deniers suspicious and you know how they are! they will think the worst, post it somewhere and then attribute the information to you!!

so i would definitely figure in your electricity costs as well...

DaveinOlyWA said:

ScottF2000; well you know me well enough from here and Priuschat that i am kidding. i am a Volt fan.
<snip>so i would definitely figure in your electricity costs as well...

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- Let me use avg numbers for some calculations. Summer I was getting 45 EV miles and winter I'm getting just above 30 EV miles. I'll use 35 which is likely low.
- 2012 Volts show kWh used for the current day (charge). My 2011 does not so I'll use max. Volt uses 10.4 kWh (65%) for a full charge but with charging inefficiencies I'll use 12.5 kWh.
- My entire monthly avg kWh charge is $0.09. I charge at night which is less but I'll use this higher avg number.

My iPad app and Voltstats.net shows EV miles. So here is my round electricity cost for the 12 months I've owned it. Let me know if I've made any basic mistakes below.

EV miles: 10208.45 ; Total miles: 12152.26 ; EV%: 84.0 (Drove from NY to IL when first bought car)

(10208 EV miles) / (35 a day) = 291 days charging
(291 days charging) * (12.5 kWh) = 3638 kWh
(3638 kWh) * ($0.09/kWh) = $327 for 12 months of electricity using generous numbers in calc.

Or worked per Volt EPA sticker showing 36 kWh per 100 miles.

(10208 EV miles) / 100 miles = 102.08
(102.08) * (36 kWh) = 3674 kWh
(3674 kWh) * ($0.09/kWh) = $330 for 12 months of electricity using EPA numbers in calc.

[update: was told 12.5 kWh to charge was closer]

1542 MPG! that's fantastic, made my day, I'll file that one away from the ObamaVolt bashers. The more people who understand that this is possible, the better! You just have to keep repeating it, over and over. If it takes a lot to get EV owners to get this, it only goes to show ICE drivers need it emphasized even more. PHEV offer the single car owner a way to drastically curb their gas consumption, virtually eliminate it without being range limited. What the media has done to the Volt verges on criminal. when the main stream finally comes around, they will be pissed they were misled for so long. "Go tell it on the mountain" people!!!

If there were a highlander sized SUV version, we'd have that as our second car. For now the Leaf meets our primary car needs.

SanDust said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

weeeell, now you know how we feel

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You'd have a point but for the fact there is a web site that lists 500 people, some with similar stats (pulled from the car), and the fact that we know the Prius can't do that.

Since we know at least one person has driven the Volt 16,000 miles and has gotten an MPG number of 1542, which is 30x better than your Prius, what's so unbelievable about his claim? Arguing with data from 3 million miles of real world driving seems strained. (Admittedly getting 1542 MPG when driving 16,000 miles in a year seems tough to do, but somebody has done it).

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GaslessInSeattle said:

1542 MPG! that's fantastic, made my day, I'll file that one away from the ObamaVolt bashers. The more people who understand that this is possible, the better! You just have to keep repeating it, over and over. If it takes a lot to get EV owners to get this, it only goes to show ICE drivers need it emphasized even more. PHEV offer the single car owner a way to drastically curb their gas consumption, virtually eliminate it without being range limited. What the media has done to the Volt verges on criminal. when the main stream finally comes around, they will be pissed they were misled for so long. "Go tell it on the mountain" people!!!

If there were a highlander sized SUV version, we'd have that as our second car. For now the Leaf meets our primary car needs.

SanDust said:

DaveinOlyWA said:

weeeell, now you know how we feel

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You'd have a point but for the fact there is a web site that lists 500 people, some with similar stats (pulled from the car), and the fact that we know the Prius can't do that.

Since we know at least one person has driven the Volt 16,000 miles and has gotten an MPG number of 1542, which is 30x better than your Prius, what's so unbelievable about his claim? Arguing with data from 3 million miles of real world driving seems strained. (Admittedly getting 1542 MPG when driving 16,000 miles in a year seems tough to do, but somebody has done it).

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+1
I'm looking forward to the day we can go without the mini-van and have a PHEV. My wife already has her eye on the Volvo XC60 plug-in if they ever make it for the US.