So long, and thanks!

I returned my 2012 Cayenne Red Leaf today at the end of its 3 year lease. 13,300 miles (it ended up being a high school commuter for my kids). Lost one bar (Plano, TX).

It had a great run. After an initial DC quick charge failure that took a few days of diagnosing and ended up being a bent pin on a connector, the only service required in the 3 years were tire rotations (done for free at Discount Tire where we have always bought our tires) and 2 battery checks. Didn't spend a dollar.

I've replaced it with a 2 year lease on a BMW i3 (no range extender). We know the BEV works for us.

Why not another Leaf? Even though I would lease, the range loss bothers me. You just have to have thermal management on batteries in this climate. The BMW is the new cool kid on the block and with decent 2 year lease terms it felt like it would be fun to try.

My primary car remains the Chevy Volt which my wife and I love and she will replace with a new Volt this summer.

But, we loved the Leaf, it was a great introduction to EV's, was more fun to drive than I expected and as it was my daughter's first car and my son learned to drive it it, the start of a generation in our family that doesn't know how to use a gas station.

This forum was a great resource and a lot of fun to participate in, especially in the first year, when I met a couple of other Leaf drivers, borrowed a battery monitoring tool, etc.

I'll miss you guys!

Nissan, are you listening? We've seen quite a few jump ship and it doesn't seem to be slowing.

To be fair, they have attempted to address this with the Lizard pack, which may or may not be helping (not sure).
Also, based on:

The BMW is the new cool kid on the block and with decent 2 year lease terms it felt like it would be fun to try.

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...not sure if it would have mattered. A Leaf with a good battery still wouldn't be the new cool kid on the block. ;-)

desiv

Yep, Nissan did nothing to keep me in the fold either. Quite the contrary, in fact...

Reddy said:

Nissan, are you listening? We've seen quite a few jump ship and it doesn't seem to be slowing.

Click to expand...

desiv said:

To be fair, they have attempted to address this with the Lizard pack, which may or may not be helping

Click to expand...

I sure hope so, and early reports seem promising, but there's not enough data yet to know for sure.

What we do know for sure is that Nissan offers the same warranty on the new batteries as on the old, with replacement if:

• number of bars degrade to less than 70% (4 bars lost)
• so, kWh degrades to less than 66%
• so, driving range (full to LBW) degrades to less than 59%

I think if Nissan had confidence in their new batteries they would offer a pro rata warranty for degradation in excess of their marketing claims

• driving range degrades to less than 80%

3.5 years and 50,000 miles in My 2012 Leaf ended Dec 2014 (turned it in) 2 bars down , but it was still a great car

Leased a 2014 BMW i3 rex , 3,000 miles and happy so far

Nissan needs to address several styling , engineering and design issues on the next gen Leaf to earn back my business. I only did a 2 year lease so dec 2016 I will be back in the market.

Performance, battery TMS, styling, range , interior design all kept me from getting another Leaf.

Cant wait to see the next Leaf, but also the 2016 Volt will be in contention!

I don't think the i3 is too much competition for the Leaf right now. The price difference is substantial. I know because I seriously considered getting an i3 but it was going to cost me nearly double what I could get a Leaf for. And honestly, the main thing I wanted the i3 for was the range extender, although I do think it looks really awesome.

So yeah, the 2016 Volt is where the real competition is going to come from. It should be more affordable than an i3. And with 50 miles of range that is going to be real competition for the Leaf. If you think about it, most Leaf drivers are going to leave 10 miles for buffer, making the 85 mile range really 75. And then factor in cold weather or battery degradation and you're in a situation where the new Volt has the same practical EV range as the Leaf.

Yep, I know a couple of folks who are planning to leave the Leaf fold and go to the Volt when the 2016 becomes available...

adric22 said:

So yeah, the 2016 Volt is where the real competition is going to come from.

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Although I'm keeping my '13 leaf for its entire life, I'm first in line to buy a '16 Volt. I have to drive electric, and can get the Volt to jump Houston to Dallas and still be all electric while tooling around there.

I will happily rejoin the Leaf family, but to me 5 years 60KM very limited battery warranty is simply joke. I hope they have something good going concerning EV, otherwise most will be leasing for short period of time, affecting value and Leaf reputation.

I recently leased a 2015 and really hope the Lizard pack is not just a gimmick. I live in Tucson, so I guess I may be one of the first to give reports. I do love the car though, and since I average about 40 miles a day I should be okay in any event. My wife still won't drive it, too intimidated, which is actually fine with me.

I've never quite understood the i3 versus the Leaf. The range is nearly identical, with a REx you might as well just buy a low-end Tesla, and you can buy Leaf-range EVs with a good TMS system that aren't that much higher than a Leaf.

I agree that the Leaf was the first mass-market EV, but that's the only thing going for it versus competitors. I expect a second gen Leaf to be a very poor choice versus the competition. Just imagine the double-digit range degradation on a second-gen Leaf as I'm sure they'll still leave out TMS to cut costs--no amount of battery chemistry is going to change the laws of physics and compensate for the deleterious effects of heat on a battery.

eloder said:

-no amount of battery chemistry is going to change the laws of physics and compensate for the deleterious effects of heat on a battery.

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So, you're a physicist rather than a chemist?
Or just stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night? ;-)

I think time will tell whether or not an active rather than passive TMS will be required to significantly decrease degredation. We're still waiting to see about the Lizard pack and it's benefits (if they exist).
We're getting promising results from people with the Lizard packs, but it's still pretty soon.

Fact is, I like my Leaf. If they could give me the exact same car with a 200 mile range, I'd be super happy.
I wouldn't see the need to pay more for a BMW or Tesla.
Yes, there is the Supercharger network with Tesla, which is nice. But I have 4 Chademo's in town where I work, 1 in town where I live. And 0 Superchargers (although there is one up north from where I work).

So I think that is also case by case for people depending on where they live.

Also, I've never been into fancier cars.

I forsee a market for the Leaf, and the Tesla, and the BMW, and others...

But that's just me.. ;-)

desiv

TomT said:

Yep, I know a couple of folks who are planning to leave the Leaf fold and go to the Volt when the 2016 becomes available...

adric22 said:

So yeah, the 2016 Volt is where the real competition is going to come from.

Click to expand...

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Agreed! When GM really starts to push the Volt, watch out! With 50-60 mi EV range and gas back up, it's a no brainer for just about anyone. That's real competition to a heat-degraded 2011-2012 Leaf. Since price is often the deciding factor for most people, it will be interesting to see how the Volt fits in between the cheaper Leaf and more expensive I3.

Reddy said:

TomT said:

Yep, I know a couple of folks who are planning to leave the Leaf fold and go to the Volt when the 2016 becomes available...

adric22 said:

So yeah, the 2016 Volt is where the real competition is going to come from.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Agreed! When GM really starts to push the Volt, watch out! With 50-60 mi EV range and gas back up, it's a no brainer for just about anyone.

Click to expand...

I dunno. I know I don't want to go back to oil changes and gas stations.

Hello,
When my Leaf's time comes I want to be able to buy a new battery. I may replace the cells myself or get one from nissan, dunno. All depends where things are in 3~4 more years.

As for TMS, I don't know that it is a requirement. I have had a Honda Fit EV for almost 2.5 years and 26,000 miles, and the range degradation is negligible.

The Volt isn't in the running for me, since I don't want a gas engine and all that comes with it, and more importantly, it is too cramped. If I want to feel cramped, along with my rear passengers, I'll just drive my old Audi S4.

I did the math for a leaf and the math for a volt. granted these numbers only apply to me and my specific conditions.

brand new leaf. $42k including 2 batteries. ie 10 years (for me I expect 3 to 3.5 years out of each battery)

the volt is $98,500 over 10 years (half of that is gasoline) and that does NOT include replacement batteries.

for me the volt is not even a remote option on a remote table anywhere. too expensive.

even a craphole prius is a better option at $78,000 over 10 years.

Me thinks there is something seriously wrong with your numbers... Or you are a serious outlier...

nerys said:

for me the volt is not even a remote option on a remote table anywhere. too expensive.
even a craphole prius is a better option at $78,000 over 10 years.

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Yeah what's with that. We're running about 100 gallons of gas / year through our Volt, most of which were on road trips that would have been impossible in the leaf in any practical sense. So over 10 years we're looking at 1000 gallons of gas and 5 oil changes, pretty sure that can be procured for less than $46k.