Will a 2012 Leaf work as only vehicle for me?

[leaftryer]

I need to drive between 30 to 50 miles per day for commuting and I do not want the extra expense of installing a 240 outlet in the garage assuming it can be done at all. The dryer is the house and the garage is detached and it would likely cost more than $1500 for an electrician to run the new circuit and install a basic electric dryer outlet in the garage without it being an external eyesore outside that I wouldn't like to look at myself and that the HOA would not approve even if I didn't care how it looked. On top of this, there would be thousands more for the cost of the charging equipment, permits etc.. I don't think it will be worth the hassle and expense for me especially since I would only lease the vehicle for 3 years with no guarantee I would get another EV. If I conveniently had a 240 power connection already existing in the garage, it would be no problem.

Will 10 hours trickle charging on 110v be enough to to do a 40 mile daily commute with constant a/c or heat use?
Is the A/C powerful enough to cool the interior rapidly in temperatures over 100 degrees or is a weaker than average air conditioner used in the Leaf to reduce power consumption?
If I want to take a road trip past the available charge's range, can the navigation system map you a route that will take you to your destination including stopping at the quick charging stations you would need use along the way automatically or do you need to research this manually and input the stops yourself?
Do you need to buy your own charging cable to use the 480v quick charging stations or are they universal and provided at the stations?

Since there is no regular motor, obviously there is no traditional oil change and tune-up type maintenance needed, but do you have a different type of maintenance you need to visit the dealer for? How much would this cost over 3 years 36K miles at typical dealer rates?
Have you seen insurance cost as being similar, higher or lower than any other $35K vehicle?

 

[TonyWilliams]

I need to drive between 30-50 miles.... Will 10 hours trickle charging on 110v be enough to to do a 40 mile daily commute with constant a/c or heat use?

4 to 5 miles per hour of charge seems reasonable at 120 volts. Could you please give us the exact cities you'll travel between so that we can determine elevation changes and temps?

Is the A/C powerful enough to cool the interior rapidly in temperatures over 100 degrees

Yes.

the navigation system map you a route that will take you to your destination including stopping at the quick charging stations you would need use along the way automatically or do you need to research this manually and input the stops yourself?

Again, we need to know where you are. Central Montana may never see a fast charger. In the ENTIRE USA, there are only a handful. Also, the navigation will only tell you that you're out of range. With a few keystrokes, it will take you to the nearest charging station that CarWings knows about.

CarWings isn't exactly the leading edge of updated info. You're more likely to find charging stations from other sources.

Do you need to buy your own charging cable to use the 480v quick charging stations or are they universal and provided at the stations?

Quick charge L3 / 480 volt powered DC charge stations will be complete.

Since there is no regular motor, obviously there is no traditional oil change and tune-up type maintenance needed, but do you have a different type of maintenance you need to visit the dealer for? How much would this cost over 3 years 36K miles at typical dealer rates?

Rotate tires, battery check (first two or three years free), windshield wipers, brake fluid flush... "make work" to generate dealership revenue.

Have you seen insurance cost as being similar, higher or lower than any other $35K vehicle?

The same for me (USAA).

 

[derkraut]

By golly, I believe Tony has covered everything----and accurately too. I agree.

 

[leaftryer]

I may move to the Las Vegas area (so A/C effectiveness is very important). In Las Vegas I don't see charging as a problem since everything I would need is within 25 miles and whenever I needed to leave the area, I would likely just take a flight. I assume it is not possible to drive between EV charging stations from Las Vegas to Los Angeles or San Diego.

In the meantime, I would be commuting in the Sacramento area about 20 miles each way and I would like to take occasional trips to the San Fransico bay area and Santa Cruz and occasional trips to Lake Tahoe and Reno. I'm hoping to be able to make those occasional trips without needing to rent cars by just making one or two 20 minute stops at fast EV charging stations on each leg of the trip. I figure I could stop at a Nissan dealer in some place like Fairfield to make the trip from Sacramento to Santa Cruz. Not sure it's possible to go to Lake Tahoe and back.

Is there any kind of online mapping tool you can use to preview possible routes in an EV? For instance inputting your vehicle's driving range between charges into the web site and the points you want to go to and have it plot viable routes?

 

[planet4ever]

It will work beautifully as a commute car in the Sacramento area, and probably in the Las Vegas area, though when you move there you should consider 240v capability as a factor in choosing a residence. But I don't think you would be happy with a LEAF as your only car, given the amount of longer distance travel you have described. Frankly, I think a Volt would better fit your requirements.

Ray

 

[rpmdk]

A LEAF is much more suited to a 2 car family - as your only car it would probably service most of your needs, but on a day with a few errands, a trip somewhere in the afternoon and a party to get to and from in the evening you could easily find yourself out of luck. As above, a Volt is probably a better option.

 

[leaftryer]

I found a site that says there are 0 L3 charging stations in the Sacramento area. That's fine because I wouldn't need it in Sacramento since I would would just charge overnight at home. If there are no L3 chargers between Sacramento and the bay area and between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, then I would have to rent a car about 6-12 days a year depending on how often I made trips more than 30 miles from home so I could comfortably make the trip and back without being dangerously low on charge.
Makes the Volt more practical than the Leaf as an only car.
I didn't realize how few places the L3 charging is available. Maybe I should just wait a few years and see if many more L3 stations are built in these areas. A L2 charger is too slow to use on a road trip.

 

[planet4ever]

If there are no L3 chargers between Sacramento and the bay area and between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, then I would have to rent a car about 6-12 days a year depending on how often I made trips more than 30 miles from home so I could comfortably make the trip and back without being dangerously low on charge.

There are zero working Quick Charge stations anywhere in northern California. There is one installed in Vacaville, but it is not working, and hasn't been for months. I have not heard of any in Nevada, though I haven't been watching that closely.

Ray

 

[rpmdk]

You definitely don't want to purchase the car in anticipation of an L3 charging network.

 

[leaftryer]

If there are no L3 chargers between Sacramento and the bay area and between Sacramento and Lake Tahoe, then I would have to rent a car about 6-12 days a year depending on how often I made trips more than 30 miles from home so I could comfortably make the trip and back without being dangerously low on charge.

There are zero working Quick Charge stations anywhere in northern California. There is one installed in Vacaville, but it is not working, and hasn't been for months. I have not heard of any in Nevada, though I haven't been watching that closely.

Ray

So, even the EV charger in Nissan dealers in Fairfiled and Vacaville and in Contra Costa and Alameda counties are not Quick Charge?
I suppose there are not enough vehicles sold to justify it yet plus they are not money makers for the providers even if there was more demand so I don't understand how they will ever get built.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

So, even the EV charger in Nissan dealers in Fairfiled and Vacaville and in Contra Costa and Alameda counties are not Quick Charge?
I suppose there are not enough vehicles sold to justify it yet plus they are not money makers for the providers even if there was more demand so I don't understand how they will ever get built.

All the central/northern California chargers -- parking lots, dealers, and commercial, etc. -- you will encounter today will be 240V Level 2 chargers and will take several hours to recharge a Leaf's battery. As said earlier, if you need to make trips from Sacto to Tahoe or the Bay area, you will need a Volt or a rental/borrowed ICE car. Perhaps you could find a willing friend who would like to occasionally swap cars to experience EV driving. I am hoping that Level 3 quick charging will eventually take hold and permit longer trips, but I'm not counting on it, and will keep our ICE Toyota for "Plan B." Good luck with your search!

 

[leaftryer]

So, even the EV charger in Nissan dealers in Fairfiled and Vacaville and in Contra Costa and Alameda counties are not Quick Charge?
I suppose there are not enough vehicles sold to justify it yet plus they are not money makers for the providers even if there was more demand so I don't understand how they will ever get built.

All the central/northern California chargers -- parking lots, dealers, and commercial, etc. -- you will encounter today will be 240V Level 2 chargers and will take several hours to recharge a Leaf's battery. As said earlier, if you need to make trips from Sacto to Tahoe or the Bay area, you will need a Volt or a rental/borrowed ICE car. Perhaps you could find a willing friend who would like to occasionally swap cars to experience EV driving. I am hoping that Level 3 quick charging will eventually take hold and permit longer trips, but I'm not counting on it, and will keep our ICE Toyota for "Plan B." Good luck with your search!

I don't think I want a Volt, but I haven't looked at one very closely since I don't like the styling and it costs more.
Maybe the swapping with a friend or neighbor might work, but it is risky if either party has an accident with the other party's car while borrowing it. I'll have to calculate the cost of renting a car 10 days a year for 3 years vs the extra cost of leasing a Volt for 3 years.
I figure I can rent a car for less than $70 per day including taxes, CDW and the gas for the road trip, so an extra $2100 over 3 years or $59 per month. If I rented less often than that, it would be less.

 

[rpmdk]

There are also fairly substantial savings in gas.

 

[Caracalover]

The area you are in should have a lot of L2 chargers already, so getting a charge while out and about may not be too hard. Having said that, if you drive a 50 mile commute fast and hard, you will need to charge for more time than you have every now and again. This will simply mean you need to go slower the next day, not that you can't make it work. I have a 35 mile commute and only use 120 charging myself, so when I need to get to full charge I go out and park the car for a couple of hours at the L2 the city college put in. I have only done this once, but it did come in handy. If you are a speed limit driver, you will likely have no issues with this except when you decide to go out in the evening and return late. I am in the 80% club with my commute, and I would imagine you would be able to do that as well, but with a lease you likely won't care - so with that thought, you will have the reserve on the front end for those longer, faster driving days.

One other factor to consider is where you will plug in. They reccomend a 30 amp dedicated plug even for 120. While that is overkill, you should see what else is on that circuit and be sure you can pull 12 amps all night with no circuits popping if someone uses a microwave and a blender.

 

[leaftryer]

Since the 480v quick charging capability of the Leaf seems to be the biggest advantage it has over the Focus and that advantage is not going to be much use until L3 charging stations are widespread (probably not within the time frame of a 3 year lease in this area) I will wait until the Focus EV comes out and there are comparison reviews and I can test and compare both myself.
The Focus is supposed to charge much more easily than the Leaf on 110, so I won't have any anxiety about having enough time to charge overnight even if I were to drive over 50 miles a day. The Leaf may charge well enough on 110 for my 35 mile daily commute now, but I will be pushing the limits. If i increase the commute by even a few miles if I change employers, it could require that I spend thousands to get a 240 home charging station installed.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The Focus is supposed to charge much more easily than the Leaf on 110,

How did you determine this? I doubt there will be much difference whatsoever on 120 volts. 8 to 12 amps is my guess on the Ford.

 

[DeaneG]

... so I don't understand how they will ever get built.

I feel the same way about widespread L3, unless federal and/or state governments heavily push and fund them. If dense enough, an L3 network could make EVs practical as "only" cars for many people in cities. EVs already make perfectly good second cars with just L2 in place at home, the installation of which which requires only the car owner's enthusiasm and cash.

BTW even though the Leaf is a "second" car operating on L1 and L2, it's the one we drive most often, by far.

 

[leaftryer]

The Focus is supposed to charge much more easily than the Leaf on 110,

How did you determine this? I doubt there will be much difference whatsoever on 120 volts. 8 to 12 amps is my guess on the Ford.

I thought I read that both the 240 and 110 charging for the Focus was less than half of the Leaf, but now I only see the claim for 240 charging. I'll keep looking for the site.
The Leaf is supposed to support faster 240 charging like the Focus does starting in the 2013 models, so I could just wait for the 2013s if I can justify the cost of installing a 240 hookup plus the $1500 charging station. I doubt the cost will be make sense though.
If I were to change to a job downtown, HOV lane access for the commute plus free parking and free charging could still make it worth it.
I would save around a $150 per month in parking garage (City-owned garages only) fees if I were commuting downtown in any EV.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I thought I read that both the 240 and 110 charging for the Focus was less than half of the Leaf, but now I only see the claim for 240 charging. I'll keep looking for the site.

Yes, faster on 240v for the 2012 year only (assuming Ford actually has a 2012). In 2013, they will be the same.

6.6kW chargers will be nice, but for overnight charging, it really won't matter. Just for the daytime stuff.

 

[surfingslovak]

I thought I read that both the 240 and 110 charging for the Focus was less than half of the Leaf, but now I only see the claim for 240 charging. I'll keep looking for the site.

I believe that the constraint on 120V is the amperage of the circuit. No matter what car you have, the Focus, Leaf or the Tesla, you can only draw about 12A without tripping the circuit breaker or blowing a fuse. In other words, 120V x 12A = 1.4kW, which is less than half of Leafs regular charging speed and about a quarter of the Focus' advertised charging speed.

Please be careful when basing your decisions on marketing materials or the promises of sales people. There is so much disinformation there, it's astounding.

The Leaf comes with the DC fast charging option, which is quite clever, but unfortunately useless in most of the US due to its slow adoption. Have a look at this YouTube video if you have a few minutes, it shows you the potential of this technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R9NqSuk5gjQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Additionally, have a look at this Q/A with Carlos Ghosn, the CEO of Nissan/Renault:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4alG3T1kuU&feature=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;